Dow UP over 1300 point pretrade and now opens just as big.

[dairyair]

its been a very volatile market !

people in the know, buying/selling ... they're making a fortune

LOL.
No one makes a penny until they sell.

 

[longview]

Sadly, I think you are mistaken, the majority of manufacturing that does return will be performed by robotics, so not a huge amount of jobs to be had there. Textile manufacturing will not come back because US workers cannot work for the wages paid in Thailand and Vietnam. I agree with cutting wasteful spending, but that is not what is happening now. Musk and his crew of idiots are cutting jobs with no concern as to whether the jobs are needed, he should be sent packing immediately and a thoughtful study done to determine where cuts can be made without
further damage. Unfortunately cautious and thoughtful are not trump trademarks.

We have been doing jobs with robots for a long time, and there needs to people who know how to keep them running.
Perhaps automation is a better word than robotics, as it is something we all use to some extent.
Musk and his crew are doing what Obama suggested when he created the department, they are just actually doing the job.

 

[dairyair]

a PO box? is it big enuf for Piles of Cash or do you want separate piles of Cash?

charity is fine, but business deals are better to increase our Piles of Cash. the cash will be sent in plain brown rappers and i trust that you will put it to very good use.

thanks.



oh thank you so much.

many on this forum seem to Trust all kinds of things and should continue to do so.

not so much for me, i don't have a Television because i don't trust the Propaganda from both sides. let me know what i am missing please....

like are we in the Golden Age of america? are the Tariffs working or do we need more Medicine?

have they fixed the Voting machines so they work right and vote for the right candidates like the Orange guy? will he get a third and fourth term, or is that best left to Mosk and Jay dee younger ones. ?


.

I agree with your assessment that you don't trust propaganda.

I don't either. But I don't hide from it. I just don't buy it. I ignore it.

Yes, the PO Box is plenty large for any pile of cash you need to offer for safe keeping.
In a little town, I bet I could get the PO master general to aid in holding the bags that overflow the PO box.

 

[longview]

This isn't a few days. The trend down started after the peak in February. The trend is now 2 months in.

View attachment 67564631

I understand, but before last week, it was normal cycling, the recent large drops are emotion based.

 

[ElChupacabra]

I see automation as a way for an US worker to produce many times what a low paid worker can produce, and
their company still make a great profit.
Think of it this way, A farmer with a mule can at most plant, grow and harvest about 40 acres of crops, but a farmer with a tractor
can plant, grow and harvest ten times than amount. Of course the farmer with a ten times larger crop needs a larger market.
Trumps moves are about getting the market ready. To some extent we need a working class in our trading partners as well,
so they can afford our products.

Ok, but it ultimately means less low paying jobs since the rote work gets taken over by automation, and the support jobs for this kind of technology requires training/education and less people.

 

[dairyair]

I understand, but before last week, it was normal cycling, the recent large drops are emotion based.

Sure, there was an over reaction to the size of the tariffs.They just started out larger than the markets anticipated.

But the down trend began 2 months ago in anticipation of the looming wars ahead. Notice the lower highs and the lower lows. That indicates a trend reversal taking place.


Now, the length of these wars will determine how long this downtrend will last. 1 month, 6 months, or 6 years.
How deep will the recession be? TBD.

 

[911Sparky]

We have been doing jobs with robots for a long time, and there needs to people who know how to keep them running.
Perhaps automation is a better word than robotics, as it is something we all use to some extent.
Musk and his crew are doing what Obama suggested when he created the department, they are just actually doing the job.

The number of people required to keep the robots running is a drop in the bucket to the huge number of employees trump imagines working in our manufacturing plants.
McDonalds installed kiosks to take your food order so they could cut down on the number of minimum wage workers at the serving counter. Imagine how much a tool manufacturer would be willing to spend on automation to avoid paying $25 or $30 dollars per hour for assembly.
If Musk is doing such a great job, why are they firing workers and then having to rehire them because it turned out they were necessary employees. This has happened several times, so not just a simple one time mistake. Musk needs to go, let him run his own companies into the ground, instead of our country.

 

[dairyair]

Ok, but it ultimately means less low paying jobs since the rote work gets taken over by automation, and the support jobs for this kind of technology requires training/education and less people.

That is why training and education is important.
It used to take 10 loggers to work a day in the logging industry.
Now it takes 1 person to do the logging and skidding. And 1 person to haul the cut logs to market.

But that machine that can cut and strip a tree is very very expensive.

 

[longview]

Ok, but it ultimately means less low paying jobs since the rote work gets taken over by automation, and the support jobs for this kind of technology requires training/education and less people.

Yes the future will require a different skill set than the past, and it has been that way for several centuries.
A farmer in 1700, had a lot more in common with a farmer in 500 BC than a farmer in 2025.
The 2025 farmer has to know a lot of technology.
Most of us are not working in a job we envisioned when we graduated high school, I know my job did not exists yet.
People can and will learn the new skills necessary.

 

[Ikari]

Now if we can only convince trump and his supporters of this.

Trump doesn't actually care, and his commie worshippers will only echo what Trump and Party tell them to echo.

 

[longview]

Sure, there was an over reaction to the size of the tariffs.
But the down trend began 2 months ago in anticipation of the looming wars ahead.
They just started out larger than the markets anticipated.

Now, the length of these wars will determine how long this downtrend will last. 1 month, 6 months, or 6 years.
How deep will the recession be? TBD.

I agree, but think all of this could be resolved in a few months.

 

[dairyair]

The number of people required to keep the robots running is a drop in the bucket to the huge number of employees trump imagines working in our manufacturing plants.
McDonalds installed kiosks to take your food order so they could cut down on the number of minimum wage workers at the serving counter. Imagine how much a tool manufacturer would be willing to spend on automation to avoid paying $25 or $30 dollars per hour for assembly.
If Musk is doing such a great job, why are they firing workers and then having to rehire them because it turned out they were necessary employees. This has happened several times, so not just a simple one time mistake. Musk needs to go, let him run his own companies into the ground, instead of our country.

Perhaps the real goal in all this mayleigh is AI.
Automation. Because high wage mfg jobs are not coming back.
Robotic mfg will be what replaces high wages.

 

[Revelation]

I agree with your assessment that you don't trust propaganda.

actually i LIKE the propaganda on the Television set, most good americans do; i used to get home fast and pop on the set and get under the spell of what the nice man in the Suit was telling me.

another Intellectual guy at work ruined it for me when he gave me a book on Television Propaganda; and i read the whole thing. one of the Longest books i ever read, prolly over 300 pages and fully illustrated. forget the name.

so i took my Tiny 10 inch TV back to Costco and now read books, good books of all kinds. that's how i got so smart and made Piles of Cash like Buffet.

I don't either. But I don't hide from it. I just don't buy it. I ignore it.

then get rid of yur Television like me. you wont miss it much after Withdrawal symptoms wear off.

Yes, the PO Box is plenty large for any pile of cash you need to offer for safe keeping.

thanks. just check the box, as my other Investments keep sending me money and i don't Trust putting vast piles of money into most banks locally.

In a little town, I bet I could get the PO master general to aid in holding the bags that overflow the PO box.

great. they are honest too; i will put the cash amount on the outside of the box and you can count it all for him to see before going home.


if you need more, let me know. if you invest right, we can Make America great again; saw that on a hat some place.


.

 

[poweRob]

Getting some pleasure here from the FAFO morons.

 

[911Sparky]

Perhaps the real goal in all this mayleigh is AI.
Automation. Because high wage mfg jobs are not coming back.
Robotic mfg will be what replaces high wages.

Agree, much of my family in Michigan are auto workers, automation has taken many of those jobs. If it weren't for the union, there would be even more automation, which is why the new auto plants are built in the southern right to work states.

 

[JohnRawls]

This isn't a few days. The trend down started after the peak in February. The trend is now 2 months in.

View attachment 67564631

The trend downwards started when Trump implemented Canadian/Mexican tariffs, it is where you see the first decline, then you see the realisation of those tariffs and obviously the last 6 red days is the current announcement and realisation.

The main question is, since this is so rare and new then is the market CORRECTLY estimating the consequences. Markets are rational and quick to react even before things come in to effect, the problem is that there is a limit to being rational, we are not perfect so the response is also not perfect.

The other main question for American right now would be, is American economy sustainable under those tariffs or does it require a large decline to a lower base, may be even far lower base. If the last realisation happens then DOW will fall under 30k probably if not more. Can US economy compete realistically against economies surviving on the previous order of things of free trade. Europe gets a lot of advantages from this turmoil indirectly be their financial, trust wise or even just comparative advantage wise. After all, we don't need to pay for more pricier inputs or pricier machinery or just more for everyday stuff.

Right now the market is afraid but still holding so to speak.

 

[Ikari]

You don't understand risk and leverage. You have to take great risks to make big money. One wrong move and it can all come down on you. You only hear and think about the winners but for every winner there's dozens of losers out there who risked it and lost it all.

No, I understand, and I also know there are losers. But that has nothing to do with my statement of the overall system. Who is better capable of weather losses though? Recessions and crashes are best weathered by the already rich, and it allows those who are already rich to be able to capture more share. The poorer classes don't have the money laying about to just weather a recession and will have to sell assets to make it through. The rich will buy up those assets, and when everything eventually recovers they will have a larger market share and greater wealth than going into the recession. The fact that there is risk and leverage doesn't change that statistical effect.

 

[dairyair]

I agree, but think all of this could be resolved in a few months.

Could be, but I don't think enough countries are going to feed the trump ego to make this a short trip.

The midterms are next year, if this hasn't been resolved by then, the dead Dems that happened in 2024, will be taking control of congress again in 2026.

IMO, the highs of Feb 2025, will be the high for this year and quite possible still the high for all of 2026.

If the world tips into a recession, it won't be so easy for the banking systems to undo the damage of workers losing their jobs.
But, trump might be able to give free money to people not working like he did in 2020.
Then prepare for high inflation to return.

 

[Revelation]

Getting some pleasure here from the FAFO morons.

sad, very sad.

understanding rich people is tough, the one guy lost 20 million in the video. when the bank closed in california a few years ago, the rich had millions in there but nothing really was insured.

same thing with the Orange plague, he said the Tariffs were coming and the rich did nothing except maybe Buffet and me and got out of the market.

Getting some pleasure here from the FAFO morons.

not me, it's like watching speeding cars crash in the winter when driving on ice at high speed; but people do it anyway.

there are just so many Piles of Cash to go around and i wish i could give each of you a pile of it cause i don't need it. lately i have been praying what to do with it all.

it just seems that making money is Easy if you have wisdom and can read books and newspapers on the subject.

but americans don't read, at least not many.

excuse me, i have a pile of uncounted cash sitting on my desk; may just stick it in the drawer till you all tell me when to get back in the market.


thanks.

.

 

[Variant]

Aren't you buying all the contradictions!?!

It's all true you see. Even all the lies? Especially the lies!

 

[dairyair]

The trend downwards started when Trump implemented Canadian/Mexican tariffs, it is where you see the first decline, then you see the realisation of those tariffs and obviously the last 6 red days is the current announcement and realisation.

The main question is, since this is so rare and new then is the market CORRECTLY estimating the consequences. Markets are rational and quick to react even before things come in to effect, the problem is that there is a limit to being rational, we are not perfect so the response is also not perfect.

The other main question for American right now would be, is American economy sustainable under those tariffs or does it require a large decline to a lower base, may be even far lower base. If the last realisation happens then DOW will fall under 30k probably if not more. Can US economy compete realistically against economies surviving on the previous order of things of free trade. Europe gets a lot of advantages from this turmoil indirectly be their financial, trust wise or even just comparative advantage wise. After all, we don't need to pay for more pricier inputs or pricier machinery or just more for everyday stuff.

Right now the market is afraid but still holding so to speak.

If current levels don't hold on the DOW, the next support level is about 33K.
If we get to 30K or below, this is a long long term down trend. Will be similar to the 08 housing bubble crash.

The Fes Res and world banks have been good at keeping the deep drops and the length of time to short periods of time.

What I don't understand about all this, is what is the end game?

America 1st? 1st in what?
More jobs? Jobs were not a problem.

 

[rhinefire]

If that investor has a 401k who mainly deals in mutual funds...it sure as shit is important to them.

There are many varieties of MFs so your point is mute.

 

[dairyair]

Agree, much of my family in Michigan are auto workers, automation has taken many of those jobs. If it weren't for the union, there would be even more automation, which is why the new auto plants are built in the southern right to work states.

Unions are a good thing.

But like any greedy human organization, over played their hands and became a liability to the company and then in the long run to the workers.
Labor and mgmt need to work together towards the common goal of profitability and shared revenue.

But the future is AI, automation.
The next generations will need to be sales, technical, and serviceble in the next new economy that AI is going to offer.

 

[ElChupacabra]

That is why training and education is important.
It used to take 10 loggers to work a day in the logging industry.
Now it takes 1 person to do the logging and skidding. And 1 person to haul the cut logs to market.

But that machine that can cut and strip a tree is very very expensive.

Indeed, but that consideration is made against the continual cost of personnel and benefits. Usually the investment in automation pays for itself and the level of productivity increases because robotics can conduct rote tasks efficiently.

 

[JohnRawls]

If current levels don't hold on the DOW, the next support level is about 33K.
If we get to 30K or below, this is a long long term down trend. Will be similar to the 08 housing bubble crash.

The Fes Res and world banks have been good at keeping the deep drops and the length of time to short periods of time.

What I don't understand about all this, is what is the end game?

America 1st? 1st in what?
More jobs? Jobs were not a problem.

Who knows, nobody knows that is why the stock market can't really be sure is it time to buy or sell or what the hell?