Dow sinks below 23,000; Nasdaq flirts with a bear market; Oil in free fall

[SCrider]

Nothing wrong with "being part of the global economy"...as long as it is on terms that are beneficial to the US.

But that's the problem with the globalists...they don't care about the US. They only care about their own money.

Same with Trump and 99.9% of all conservatives

 

[Chomsky]

I don't think Trump is caving on the wall....
We'll see soon enough.

Yeah. Saw that Ryan was claiming Trump now wants "border security", and they'll give it to him. That phrase sounds like they are setting-up for taking a small move towards Trump, even if it does not really equal "the wall". Probably just enough for a PR move to his base. But thats just a guess.

If Trump's watching the markets (I'm sure he is), he can't feel happy to be in this position.

 

[SCrider]

They are connected. That's not the issue.

The issue is...do you want monetary policy that favors one over the other?

The only economic theory of the GOP is feed the rich and the crumbs will fall to the little people.

 

[gulfman]

That's pretty rich, at two years in.

That loser Obama blamed Bush for 8 years.

 

[Atomic Kid]

If the fed does not make a hike next month and/or the other three hikes next year, we are headed toward a recession, but this week, the rise happened because of a strong economy.
We are the world's largest economy and it is still rock solid, unemployment at record lows.
"The Fed raises rates in a strong economy to contain excesses, and cuts borrowing costs when the economy needs support."

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-fed-raises-interest-rates-2017-12

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the word "strong". It has been a steady expanding economy but one with a potentially weak underbelly. The signs of that weakness is already there with record high consumer household debt and record low housing starts, record high deficit, stagnating labor productivity and participation rates, little sign that US corporations are reinvesting the windfalls they garnered from the tax cut in their workers and businesses to create more jobs and better pay and benefits. One reason the Fed was able to keep interest rates 'artificially' low was because the rate of inflation was so low. With a record deficit and the national debt spiraling upward and the President trade policies complicating the selling off of American debt to foreign investors inflation and the rate of interest will start ratcheting up as well. Threatening to knockout the vulnerable underpinnings of this economy.

 

[Exactice]

https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/20/investing/dow-jones-nasdaq-oil-prices/index.html

New York (CNN Business) Fear of an economic slowdown is rocking Wall Street and the oil markets.

The Dow briefly plunged below 23,000 on Thursday and the Nasdaq is flirting with a bear market. US oil prices plummeted more than 4% to the lowest level since August 2017.
========================================
There have been a number of predictions of WS's bubble bursting, setting off the next Great Recession. We may be seeing the start of that this past week. Not good for Trump in 2020. Unemployed people tend to hold grudges that they act out at the voting booths.

Gas prices are plunging too, which is good for me. I have antique gold coins in my safety deposit box that are worth a lot more today because of the inverse price relationship between gold & oil: inevitably one goes up & the other goes down. It's like a Newtonian law of motion.

I NEED HELP! I have very little knowledge of this, can you assist me or anyone else??? (I assure you I am going to read more now, googling) But if you can all point me or educate me in the interim?

What I mean is....

Blame and Economy??? Stock markets and crashes? How does it really work? I just dont get it.


1) Obama Era....Trump Era..... is it really them or is it just how volatile the market is?

2) Does these thing actually affect every day life? If the Stock market starts dumping (its been going up and down in general 2008 it was like 7,000 ish) So people have bounced back that it hit highes in the 24,000 range right? What does a drop actually do to me??

3) the Economy report are what? Trump says we have lowest unemployment? People are working? So if the Market crashes..... people will not work? I am assuming that business wont be able to sustain because their investments of benefits will take huge losses? So they lose money and need to cut cost to survive?



OK So with that my assumptions?

2008 is the only crash I am familiar with as a responsible adult. If I understand correctly it was a Housing bubble. meaning the inflated cost of homes and the loans people were getting approved for were way over their heads.

The people could NOT afford the mortgages and the banks took in too many of these bad mortgages. The inflated cost of the homes popped and people where underwater on their mortgages? Did I get this right?


My biggest question and concern is, I was young back than BUT I bought my First Condo in 2008 right after the crash, the next point is prior to all the indicators I was already looking and properties. YET as a responsible consumer.... It was my diligence to find the equitable cost of the home and the actual mortgage I could afford.

1) I qualified for almost $400,000 mortgage. BUT to me that was ridiculous... I dont even know how they figure that out. I did my dollar per dollar and at BEST I could survive with a possible $300,000 mortgage and that is before a 20% down. so I would ONLY really be financing $240,000

2) I ended up with a property @ $210,000 the realtor and bank was asking why so small and so low I can afford a $400,000 unit, I said THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.....


Now Fast forward 2018 the property assessed value is $315,000 and I dont think I owe much left on it....... I lost my job in 2012 and had to start from scratch, BUT I have and maintained and survived. So HOW does a stock market crash.... actually affect me? How is Trade deals with china, that is causing half of the fluctuation SO hostile to me.

I mean I have my business. I have my 2 homes now..... I can afford based on my income that I now control and I pay for all of my benefits, medical, retirement, etc.....

Help me understand why a crash is bad? I mean I am kinda waiting so I when it hit low I can buy up ALL the stock and take my equity that I have built and put it back to the stock in hopes that it will go up again as it always has?

 

[Atomic Kid]

The way you get around that hit you are worried about is by making more deals to sell oil products...like this one:

https://naturalgasnow.org/us-poland-ink-24-year-lng-deal-securing-energy-security/

Sigh! Only you would would reply to question about oil prices by posting a link about natural gas. :doh

 

[Chomsky]

First the markets are very important for many Americans, thus the crazy tweets from Trump taking credit for its rise.

Not sure anyone thinks a shutdown will be a meaningful economic event. Rather look at where the market was when Powell started to speak yesterday to where it is now straight down.

Not sure why people put aside the axiom "don't fight the Fed". For a decade the Fed had the market's back. Powell pretty much yesterday pretty much said that is over.

There are other reasons of course. Tariffs hurt a bit, government dysfunction,price of oil way down etc.

Yeah, my 401K reference was in response to Mycroft's advice to "leave the market". But to respond to your post, I've generally seen numbers showing just over half of Americans own stock. That's huge!

But we must look further than direct stock ownership, because those that own stocks often take profits in good markets and spend them, trickling that cash through the economy. We provide professional services that are not directly financially rated, but a chunk of our clients are indeed market sensitive. When the market tanks, we see it in their dealings with us.

 

[Chomsky]

That loser Obama blamed Bush for 8 years.

Alright. I don't know about 8 years. But it was a legit point of reference for quite a few years. And for good reason.

 

[HenryChinaski]

My advice? Get away from the stock market...and fast. The Fed has the globalist's back...not yours.

Coming from someone who likely without any type of employer sponsered retirement 401k plan.

 

[washunut]

Yeah, my 401K reference was in response to Mycroft's advice to "leave the market". But to respond to your post, I've generally seen numbers showing just over half of Americans own stock. That's huge!

But we must look further than direct stock ownership, because those that own stocks often take profits in good markets and spend them, trickling that cash through the economy. We provide professional services that are not directly financially rated, but a chunk of our clients are indeed market sensitive. When the market tanks, we see it in their dealings with us.

Very well stated. Market moves have a large impact on the public's confidence. When market was rocketing we were seeing very high confidence levels, now with the market down people are calling for an imminent recession.

 

[iguanaman]

Me too. It seemed to be set up for the long haul. Trump an the GOP wanted to make a splash to show how smart they were. Well now we pay for it.

Of course we will. Trump will have a recession in his first term like every single Republican President in history. It's a GOP tradition and a good part of the reason that wages don't go up. Now we will all be worried about keeping our jobs not whether we deserve a raise after 35 years.

 

[SCrider]

Of course we will. Trump will have a recession in his first term like every single Republican President in history. It's a GOP tradition and a good part of the reason that wages don't go up. Now we will all be worried about keeping our jobs not whether we deserve a raise after 35 years.

Sad fact from the party of fiscal responsibility .........Corporate profits over all else......


I know corporations are people too....:lamo

 

[Mycroft]

Sigh! Only you would would reply to question about oil prices by posting a link about natural gas. :doh

 

[Vadinho]

https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/20/investing/dow-jones-nasdaq-oil-prices/index.html

New York (CNN Business) Fear of an economic slowdown is rocking Wall Street and the oil markets.

The Dow briefly plunged below 23,000 on Thursday and the Nasdaq is flirting with a bear market. US oil prices plummeted more than 4% to the lowest level since August 2017.
========================================
There have been a number of predictions of WS's bubble bursting, setting off the next Great Recession. We may be seeing the start of that this past week. Not good for Trump in 2020. Unemployed people tend to hold grudges that they act out at the voting booths.

Gas prices are plunging too, which is good for me. I have antique gold coins in my safety deposit box that are worth a lot more today because of the inverse price relationship between gold & oil: inevitably one goes up & the other goes down. It's like a Newtonian law of motion.

I am so tired of winning...every day it's win, win, win. Winning is getting boring now.

 

[Mycroft]

Coming from someone who likely without any type of employer sponsered retirement 401k plan.

I'm way beyond being dependent upon employer sponsored retirement plans.

 

[Disraeli]

Good point made here: "Don't fight the Fed".

The adage holds true for investors and should have for Trump, who fought the Fed with the tax cut, the trade war, and his public attacks on Powell, whom he hired.

He was foolish to crow about the market returns when things were going his way. Now he will be identified with the Bear.

 

[Vadinho]

If you are under 50, do not sell. Us over 50 types are screwed. Thanks Trump.

 

[HenryChinaski]

I'm way beyond being dependent upon employer sponsored retirement plans.

Sure sure you are. And regardless, a majority of working class people are dependent on their 401k as traditional pensions are nearly extinct.

 

[Exactice]

Of course we will. Trump will have a recession in his first term like every single Republican President in history. It's a tradition and a good part of the reason that wages don't go up. Now we will all be worried about keeping our jobs not whether we deserve a raise after 35 years.

Hey Iguana, can I have an honest question with you.


Take politics out for a second and base the actions of money in and money out purely on the responsible parties.

1) Its MY responsibility to balance what I can and cannot afford? SHOULD I expect raises and expect my employer to give me raises?
2) A job is a service and a paid service with that it is a voluntary agreement, NO one is forcing me to take X job.
3) So if I am a low income or middle class income person, and I stay within my income and I am a responsible adult to include not taking on additional debt (wants vs needs) The market should not affect me much?


Im trying to understand. the Markets volatility affects those that invest in the stocks. Business of course and those that relied on 401ks, Annuities.

My mom Retired, on Pension, Social Security and Retirements... her retirements have and will take hits from 2008 crash and the possibility of the current one.

Next But she bounced back from the 2008 to the 2016-2018 climb... so shes basically back. NOW add in her assets of hard work over the years debt free now and owns here home etc... If it crashes I dont think she will lose anything significant? my mom was a legal Secretary and no college we are NOT a rich family in the slightest.

My whole point is..... IS it OUR the individual the consumer Ultimate responsibility? Or are we expecting someone ALWAYS to bail us out when things dont go "OUR" way.

Big banks, Corporations correlate no different to the middle and low class . seems Everyone wants a bail out?

continued.....

 

[Exactice]

Part 2-

I blame ALL parties.... politically. We as voters put in politicians, BUT is it NOT our fault for that blame?? ALL politicians are starting to PISS me off. NOT just right or left, Dem or repub.

What I am trying to say. GREED has dictated why the volatility is there?


I am a simple ignorant person but I ask this questions.

If the Debt of US is $10,000 a year.

We make $10,000 in income (through taxes) we should be GOOD right?


But our debt is $100,000 a year and we only make $10,000 of income. WHY the HELL is our Debt $90,000 over. WTF and why are we spending so damn much?

I know this seems like a very simplified point. BUT wtf is my POLITICIANS doing. TRUMP, Obama, Ryan, Pelosi.....

OUR budget is SO far off..... ACA is broken, medicare is for seniors and this is running out. Our Defense budge is astronomical, OUR aid Budget is NO no better than our defense budget. I can go on....

Why are we spending SO much time and effort about Trump rather than going to our politicians and saying WTF people Balance our check book first???? I hardly EVER hear this UNTIL its too late.... until a recession or bubble burst is the ONLY time.

If the budget is the cause and affect of a major collapse, WHY is resources NOT met to clean this crap up. Is the Greed so prevalent that this is the INTENT to just leave it the way it is and pick of people?


This is disgusting to me..BOTH sides of the aisle.....

 

[Mycroft]

Sure sure you are. And regardless, a majority of working class people are dependent on their 401k as traditional pensions are nearly extinct.

Investment in the stock market isn't a requirement for a 401k, is it?

 

[HenryChinaski]

Investment in the stock market isn't a requirement for a 401k, is it?

Where do you think The funds that you contribute are placed to grow? You cant be serious.

 

[Hatuey]

Where do you think The funds that you contribute are placed to grow? You cant be serious.

He's probably put them on companies that aren't likely to fail. You know, Transatlantic Zeppelin, Amalgamated Spats, U.S. Hay, Confederated Slave Holdings and that “up-and-coming” Baltimore Opera Hat Company.

Those types. Solid companies.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

 

[Chomsky]

Very well stated. Market moves have a large impact on the public's confidence. When market was rocketing we were seeing very high confidence levels, now with the market down people are calling for an imminent recession.

Thanks.

But it's not just about market confidence. There's chunks of America that depend upon their market holdings for income. When their holdings decrease in value, when their income derived from their holdings slump, they spend less by necessity.