Dow sinks 680 points after GDP report shows a slowing economy amid stubborn inflation

[RedFishBlueFish]

When I was studying economics back in the day, Keynesian theory said stagflation couldn't occur - although it sure as hell did occur in the 70s.

Keynesian economics is crap but I believe its still all you get at the undergraduate level.

Japan appears to be coming out of a decade of stagflation. Admittedly, this occurred after the Keynesian theory was developed.

 

[eohrnberger]

Time for a recession, surprised it hadn't hit earlier than this. After all the crap that happened with Covid and supply chain problems and global inflation, thought things were going to crash a bit earlier.

True, that all those things you listed contribute to inflation.

Biden, pushing his big spending bill(s) on top of it only fanned the flames and made it worse than it would have been without that rampant federal spending.

His political imperative was to buy those votes with money from the public treasury.
I still recall all those left of center cheering and demanding that spending.
Doesn't seem to have been a good idea now, when dealing with the consequences of that spending, which we have now.

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days​

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days

The nation's debt now stands at nearly $34.4 trillion.

www.cnbc.com

 

[highroller]

True, that all those things you listed contribute to inflation.

Biden, pushing his big spending bill(s) on top of it only fanned the flames and made it worse than it would have been without that rampant federal spending.

His political imperative was to buy those votes with money from the public treasury.
I still recall all those left of center cheering and demanding that spending.
Doesn't seem to have been a good idea now, when dealing with the consequences of that spending, which we have now.

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days​

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days

The nation's debt now stands at nearly $34.4 trillion.

www.cnbc.com

If you care about the national debt, you would support raising taxes. The economy is in a strong position and would accept them.

 

[sanman]

MAGA ignorance is legendary.

Stagflation is high unemployment and high inflation.

Neither are high at all.

Stagflation is low growth (stagnation) and high inflation

The US economy is suffering low growth, and is only being artificially propped up by Biden's runaway spending.
Without that runaway spending, the US economy would be in recession.
So stagflation legitimately applies here.

 

[sanman]

I don’t think you know the term: STAGFLATION

Let me help with Wikipedia:



Does any of this sound like the economy today?

No, it doesn’t. We don’t have stagflation.

The term is applicable because the US economy is being propped up artificially by Biden's unprecedentedly irresponsible spending.
Without Biden's runaway spending, the US economy would be even farther in the doldrums, while suffering inflation.

 

[Phys251]

The Dow rallied a bit and finished -375 points. Not a great day, but not worth going crazy over.

 

[Port Tack]

That you should increase taxes if you are worried about debt.

Back in the days of Eisenhower and Kennedy the highest tax rates for millionaires went all the way up to 80+% tax rates. If you are making 20 million I think you can survive with 4 million after taxes rather easily. Without the US economy these millionaries never would have made what they do. Now you have guys like Romney making 20 million and paying a tax rate of 13%. And people wonder why this country is 30 trillion in debt. While these millionaires laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Isidore]

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days

The nation's debt now stands at nearly $34.4 trillion.

www.cnbc.com

10/6/2023	$33,510,833,601,230.21
1/16/2024	$34,061,551,582,176.05
4/24/2024	$34,571,627,122,114.08

200 days?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Back in the days of Eisenhower and Kennedy the highest tax rates for millionaires went all the way up to 80+% tax rates. If you are making 20 million I think you can survive with 4 million after taxes rather easily. Without the US economy these millionaries never would have made what they do. Now you have guys like Romney making 20 million and paying a tax rate of 13%. And people wonder why this country is 30 trillion in debt. While these millionaires laugh all the way to the bank.

There was a lot to like about the "30 Great Years", 45-75.

I'm just ALWAYS amazed how @Fletch comes into these debates, without any understanding of the subject....and gets constantly skewered. Anyone who has a modicum of understand of Keynes should get that it was based on counter-cyclical actions.....if the economy is cold, increase govt spending, if too hot, reduce spending and then tax to cut the debt from the cold period.

But he had to ask....

 

[eohrnberger]

If you care about the national debt, you would support raising taxes. The economy is in a strong position and would accept them.

I wouldn't at all be opposed to a 100% income tax on liberals, after all this is the government what they wanted, demanded in fact.
Beyond that, no, as it is clear that the US federal government has a spending problem, and not a revenue problem.

Yes, spending problem, as US federal government tax revenues have been going up since 2009.

​

U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The federal government generates tax revenue through a variety of sources, including income and corporate taxes. Learn how much tax revenue the U.S. generates.

www.thebalancemoney.com

And yet, the US federal government has spent all that, still more.

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days​

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days

The nation's debt now stands at nearly $34.4 trillion.

www.cnbc.com

SO, yes, a spending problem.
One so bad that only a balanced budget mandate is going to force some sort of fiscal responsibility, some sort of fiscal sanity, onto the US federal government.

 

[eohrnberger]

10/6/2023	$33,510,833,601,230.21
1/16/2024	$34,061,551,582,176.05
4/24/2024	$34,571,627,122,114.08

200 days?

This, you expect, to be so significantly better? I hardly think so.

Definitely shoot the ever loving shit out of Biden's claims that he lowered anything to do with the US federal government finances, as he so often claims, yet not a single lamesstream, DNC political propaganda so called 'news' and 'journalism' outlet fact checks.

 

[Isidore]

This, you expect, to be so significantly better? I hardly think so.

Definitely shoot the ever loving shit out of Biden's claims that he lowered anything to do with the US federal government finances, as he so often claims, yet not a single lamesstream, DNC political propaganda so called 'news' and 'journalism' outlet fact checks.

Perhaps those outlets believe, in this atmosphere of partisan division, that their fact checks would merely be brushed off as insignificant.

 

[Fletch]

That you should increase taxes if you are worried about debt.

But keep recession related expenditures in place and/or increase them?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

But keep recession related expenditures in place and/or increase them?

Are you sending back your Trump checks?

We can get into any details you like....but you are still, as always, coming into a discussion emptyhanded.

 

[highroller]

The term is applicable because the US economy is being propped up artificially by Biden's unprecedentedly irresponsible spending.
Without Biden's runaway spending, the US economy would be even farther in the doldrums, while suffering inflation.

You can’t just make up terms.

STAGFLATION by definition doesn’t apply here.

Also, you’re admitting that government spending has been a positive for this economy.

 

[Fletch]

Are you sending back your Trump checks?

We can get into any details you like....but you are still, as always, coming into a discussion emptyhanded.

Odd that you would say that since you come into every discussion here armed only with arrogance, not substance. You libs love to pretend that you are knowledgeable on a topic when you are not. That is why you wither at the simplest question.

 

[multivita-man]

SO, yes, a spending problem.

Spending is a problem, but so is the tax code and our economic system. We never repaid the lost tax revenues and the massive stimulus required to save our financial system and put people back to work after the Great Recession. Even worse during the pandemic in which we not only bailed out businesses but basically conducted a massive UBI experiment. Stimulus was spent, which is fine with me - we needed it. But we don't have the revenues to pay it all back. We could have those revenues with higher taxes but nobody has the appetite for that, it would seem

 

[Gimmesometruth]

That is why you wither at the simplest question.

On the contrary, I answered that Keynes would say "increase taxes" in good times if you are concerned about debt.

You don't want to discuss taxation, you want to pull back (?) spending already in the pipeline.

If anyone is avoiding discussion of YOUR previous question....it is you.

You still won't specify what spending should be reversed.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

.it wasn't until 1991 that Clinton declared he was running and Gore wasn't his running mate then either....

And when he was, they lied about the worst economy in 50 yrs.

....and btw, the stock market losses were indeed the worst in 50 years.

E c o n o m y

The DJI says you're wrong

Dow Jones - DJIA - 100 Year Historical Chart

Interactive chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) stock market index for the last 100 years. Historical data is inflation-adjusted using the headline CPI and each data point represents the month-end closing value. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.

www.macrotrends.net

 

[Captain America]

I am no stock guru, but if a share costs 38k, and it loses 375.12....

Let's do the math.

Dow Apr 25, 5:07 PM EDT

38,085.80−375.12 ( down 0.98%) today.

That's less than a 1% drop today. Right? And it's all Biden's fault, right?

No. That's called the "stock market."

Next, the Trumpholes will blaming Biden for their hemorrhoids. Those guys aren't much different than the National Enquirer, these days. LOL! No credibiity, but fun to read while standing in the check-out line.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The DJI says you're lying.

Black Monday, Oct 19, 1987:

Dow Jones Industrial Average falls 508 points (22.6 percent), the largest one-day drop by percentage in the index's history.

 

[EnigmaO01]

There goes my retirement investments

A correction was coming. We all should have known that

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Black Monday, Oct 19, 1987:

Dow Jones Industrial Average falls 508 points (22.6 percent), the largest one-day drop by percentage in the index's history.

This does not prove the claim.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

LOL
This doe sn

This does not prove the claim.

it was worse than claimed, yer still denying.

 

[The Hairy Fiddler]

Stagflation is low growth (stagnation) and high inflation

The US economy is suffering low growth, and is only being artificially propped up by Biden's runaway spending.
Without that runaway spending, the US economy would be in recession.
So stagflation legitimately applies here.

That's not the definition of stagflation. Kushinator has the correct definition.