Don't fear the robot

[Cosmo]

Nothing is free.

AI has already taken jobs and will continue to take more.

Both statements are true.

The problem arises when people aren’t capable of adapting to the changing market.

And those are typically your older people

Old people don't tend to be particularly great at many things. Comes with being old. That's why you're supposed to plan for retirement so it's not a problem.

and/or less educated/less intelligent. They don’t do well with change.

So?

 

[soylentgreen]

You're right about all that, but this was about robots in the context of jobs.

By jobs you mean chores done around the house which are the only examples you gave, no one is complaining about those jbs. They're actually complaining about robots taking over paid work and leaving humans unemployed and unemploable.

 

[bythoughts]

Today's mommy-state is not going to let any robot on the road unless it's safer than a human driver, which means your rates would likely go down.

They'll say it's about safety, but the decision about whether the car drives itself out or not is going to depend first and foremost on whether the CEO of that company is In or Out with the administration. In fact, it's probably a more reliable gauge to measure that than the news stories you see every day.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Today's mommy-state is not going to let any robot on the road unless it's safer than a human driver, which means your rates would likely go down.

Robot cars will have a number of advantages.

1. No DUIs or other drug-induced impairments
2. No distractions (inside or outside the car)
3. No fatigue
4. No road rage
5. No impatience
6. No showing off displays of speed or power
7. No attempts to outrun the police

Also, I understand that robotic cars, such as WAYMOs, communicate with each other, sharing information, like traffic and weather conditions throughout the area, allowing each car to use that information to determine its best course of action in any situation.

 

[bythoughts]

3. No fatigue
4. No road rage
5. No impatience
6. No showing off displays of speed or power
7. No attempts to outrun the police

Also, I understand that robotic cars, such as WAYMOs, communicate with each other, sharing information, like traffic and weather conditions throughout the area, allowing each car to use that information to determine its best course of action in any situation.

Oh, but why stop there?
8. No trips to areas known for drug dealing
9. No drives past homes of the wealthy and famous
10. No passage for persons who fail "vetting" for political unreliability
11. No passage for pregnant persons if it could facilitate an abortion
12. No service near sites of protests and disturbances

And of course, communication will include the number of passengers, their physical disposition, their conversations, potential contraband, whether the vehicle is being used to carry supplies to interdicted persons...

 

[aociswundumho]

Oh, but why stop there?
8. No trips to areas known for drug dealing
9. No drives past homes of the wealthy and famous
10. No passage for persons who fail "vetting" for political unreliability
11. No passage for pregnant persons if it could facilitate an abortion
12. No service near sites of protests and disturbances

And of course, communication will include the number of passengers, their physical disposition, their conversations, potential contraband, whether the vehicle is being used to carry supplies to interdicted persons...

Exactly, and since they will know who's in the car at any time, it will make it super easy for the state to track your movement.

Of course leftists like @Stealers Wheel see state surveillance as a huge public benefit.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Exactly, and since they will know who's in the car at any time, it will make it super easy for the state to track your movement.

Of course leftists like @Stealers Wheel see state surveillance as a huge public benefit.

Like that doesn't already happen.

Fly commercial?
Travel international?
Use a credit or debit card?
Have a cell phone?
Access the Internet through your ISP?
Watch cable or satellite TV?

Oh, but the robot car! That's a bridge too far! That's tyranny!

 

[aociswundumho]

Like that doesn't already happen.

Fly commercial?
Travel international?
Use a credit or debit card?
Have a cell phone?
Access the Internet through your ISP?
Watch cable or satellite TV?

Oh, but the robot car! That's a bridge too far! That's tyranny!

As I said, you see it as a benefit.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

As I said, you see it as a benefit.

No, I see it as a reality of the world we live in. If you're in public, you are being monitored by someone somewhere.

 

[aociswundumho]

No, I see it as a reality of the world we live in. If you're in public, you are being monitored by someone somewhere.

You'll be very happy to know that Trump is creating a national citizenship database to keep track of you further.

 

[The Brad Dad]

So you're worried about robots taking jobs? Let me tell you what I got done today.

First I did laundry, but not by hand. I didn’t drag my clothes to a river and scrub them on a rock. Instead I used a labor-saving device called a washing machine. Tossed them in, pushed a button, done. A half hour later I used another labor-saving device: a dryer. No hanging wet socks in the sun. Just hit start and walked away.

Later, I had to fix a gate. I didn’t grab a hand brace like it’s 1904. I used a cordless drill. Way faster, way easier. Saves a ton of time.

The drilling made a mess. Could’ve swept it up with a broom and dustpan, but I used a vacuum cleaner. Another labor-saving device. It sucks, literally, and that’s what makes it great.

You get the idea. Labor-saving devices are always good. They free up your time and energy. Nobody’s out here saying, "Man, I wish I could still beat my rugs with a stick."

A robot is a labor-saving device. Being afraid of robots is like being afraid of washing machines and vacuum cleaners.

Labor saving devices are great. Devices so companies don't have to pay labor, not really.

 

[aociswundumho]

They're actually complaining about robots taking over paid work and leaving humans unemployed and unemploable.

Labor saving devices are great. Devices so companies don't have to pay labor, not really.

Yes, really. Labor is a cost, and reducing that cost is always a net benefit.

Consider the labor-saving device known as the powered lawnmower. If we banned it, landscaping companies would have to use manual mowers - thus creating more jobs, right?

Do either of you seriously believe banning powered lawnmowers would result in a net benefit to society?

 

[bythoughts]

Like that doesn't already happen.

Fly commercial?
Travel international?
Use a credit or debit card?
Have a cell phone?
Access the Internet through your ISP?
Watch cable or satellite TV?

Oh, but the robot car! That's a bridge too far! That's tyranny!

All those are problems already.

With all the ICE detentions in the news, I shouldn't have to argue the first two.

The credit/debit cards have been used as methods of censorship, and extract a heavy private tax from the populace on everything they buy. (Even if the merchant pays it)

Cell phones are mainly meant to target us for drone attacks. Everything else is window dressing.

Internet was supposed to be protected by special, constitutional limits of free speech. It was supposed to be the safest form of surveillance. And look where that got us. People only use it because governments took away everyone's natural right to broadcast radio frequencies and "sold" that to the highest bidder, just as if you had to pay a fee to hold up a poster in public.

The television is the sacred preserve of the peculiar institution of "intellectual property", by which people have been deluded and their political discourse cheapened to the point where no one has any notion what they're voting for.

So yeah, every one of these is a bridge too far, and this is another. But when Kim Jung Un sends all the self-driving cars straight at the nearest vehicle with lights and sirens, it'll be a real hard bridge to cross.

 

[soylentgreen]

Yes, really. Labor is a cost, and reducing that cost is always a net benefit.

Consider the labor-saving device known as the powered lawnmower. If we banned it, landscaping companies would have to use manual mowers - thus creating more jobs, right?

Do either of you seriously believe banning powered lawnmowers would result in a net benefit to society?

And again you are using examples of labour saving devices that have no direct impact on employment.
Nor are you taking into consideration the social impact of mechanisation. And it is not as if this is a new problem. Society has had to deal with machines replacing humans ever since the beginning of the industrial age. But as you point out, up till now and only what you are mentioning is that there has only been creation of labour saving devices. The difference now is that the machines can completely replace human labour.
The question is not should we advance the technology to create machines that basically replace mundane jobs on assembly lines. But what happens to the people they replace.

So enough of your just pointing to one side of the issue that is inevitable, robots will eventually replace workers where intelligence and imagination are not needed. Discuss the other side of the equation. What happens to the humans replaced by machine?

 

[aociswundumho]

And again you are using examples of labour saving devices that have no direct impact on employment.
Nor are you taking into consideration the social impact of mechanisation.

Ok, but no matter what the "social impact" is, it will not justify banning technological improvements in production.

And it is not as if this is a new problem. Society has had to deal with machines replacing humans ever since the beginning of the industrial age. But as you point out, up till now and only what you are mentioning is that there has only been creation of labour saving devices. The difference now is that the machines can completely replace human labour. The question is not should we advance the technology to create machines that basically replace mundane jobs on assembly lines. But what happens to the people they replace.

Yes, and the number of jobs has only gone up. If AI can do your job then you need to go do something else.

So enough of your just pointing to one side of the issue that is inevitable, robots will eventually replace workers where intelligence and imagination are not needed. Discuss the other side of the equation. What happens to the humans replaced by machine?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So you're worried about robots taking jobs? Let me tell you what I got done today.

First I did laundry, but not by hand. I didn’t drag my clothes to a river and scrub them on a rock. Instead I used a labor-saving device called a washing machine. Tossed them in, pushed a button, done. A half hour later I used another labor-saving device: a dryer. No hanging wet socks in the sun. Just hit start and walked away.

Later, I had to fix a gate. I didn’t grab a hand brace like it’s 1904. I used a cordless drill. Way faster, way easier. Saves a ton of time.

The drilling made a mess. Could’ve swept it up with a broom and dustpan, but I used a vacuum cleaner. Another labor-saving device. It sucks, literally, and that’s what makes it great.

You get the idea. Labor-saving devices are always good. They free up your time and energy. Nobody’s out here saying, "Man, I wish I could still beat my rugs with a stick."

A robot is a labor-saving device. Being afraid of robots is like being afraid of washing machines and vacuum cleaners.

You're right, just as long as AI and robotics stick to chores.
They aren't.
And you know that.
Yet another example of you being incapable of having a serious and rational conversation about literally anything.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

And again you are using examples of labour saving devices that have no direct impact on employment.

It's no different than when he and others like him describe American democracy as being the exact same as Athenian direct democracy of 2500 years ago which has never been tried again since. What WE have is a republic governed by democratic election of representatives, aka REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY, which is NOT the same as pure or direct democracy.

But if this was a History or Civics class, people like him would get an "F" and they would parade around showing the F grade "as proof that schools indoctrinate kids as leftists" instead of realizing that he was using specious and invalid arguments about democracy.

And here he is now, refusing to admit that simple appliances, although "robotic" in the basic technical sense of the word, are nothing like the AI enhanced machine language capable bots that do complex tasks previously relegated to humans. You will keep correcting him and he will keep repeating his prior point as if he is deaf.



It is up to the individual to decide if this tactic is trolling but at the very least it is a waste of both time and bandwidth.
You have my sympathies, @soylentgreen ...

 

[Bum]

You good with Tesla's being driven robotically from the factory to the customer?

There may be one redeeming quality....

 

[bomberfox]

Nothing is free.

AI has already taken jobs and will continue to take more.

Both statements are true.

The problem arises when people aren’t capable of adapting to the changing market.

And those are typically your older people and/or less educated/less intelligent. They don’t do well with change.

Well its that and AI unlike previous advances stole from human talent in order to take their jobs.

 

[Bum]

Why do I have to prove to our AI overlords I am human?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Well, without getting too deep into the subject, I would object to my insurance rates going up to cover the possibility of robot failure.

As opposed to to human fail driven insurance rates?

If humans were good drivers there would not be as many Autobody shops as there are ( Winnipeg drivers are the worst in Canada from my limited experience)

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Why do I have to prove to our AI overlords I am human?

Robot discrimination,

Robots unite, you have nothing to lose but your electrical cord

 

[soylentgreen]

Ok, but no matter what the "social impact" is, it will not justify banning technological improvements in production.

I have no problem with such expansion. But I do have a problem with your failure to deal with the consequences of that expansion.

Yes, and the number of jobs has only gone up. If AI can do your job then you need to go do something else.

If your argument is that machines will replace humans in the workforce than it would seem a touch ridiculous to say that humans must go finsd another job. is the best you can do is make ridiculous solutions to a problem.

I get it. you only care about yourself. You really need to look up the word, sociopath.

 

[aociswundumho]

I have no problem with such expansion. But I do have a problem with your failure to deal with the consequences of that expansion.

The consequences are net positive.

If your argument is that machines will replace humans in the workforce than it would seem a touch ridiculous to say that humans must go finsd another job. is the best you can do is make ridiculous solutions to a problem.

No, I have never made that argument and I never would, because there is no evidence to support. It's your side that believes in that dumb shit. For the bazillionth time, automation has been going on for hundreds of years, and the number of jobs has only gone up.

I get it.

No, you don't.

 

[soylentgreen]

The consequences are net positive.

High unemployment is a net positive? For who?

No, I have never made that argument and I never would, because there is no evidence to support. It's your side that believes in that dumb shit. For the bazillionth time, automation has been going on for hundreds of years, and the number of jobs has only gone up.

You simply state new jobs will be created why also stating that robots will take over jobs. Cannot have it both ways.

No, you don't.

I do you made it clear. Yours is the insidious belief in individuality that states as long as you are fine everyone else can go **** themselves.