Donald Trump is a Socialist (2 Viewers)

[Uncensored2008]

That you two were claiming there was a deal when we had no proof or information about one? No, that was true. lol

You lied, you got busted. Common occurance.

Still don't have a deal. Trump had to walk back his tariffs to avoid a complete embargo and we have the possibility of future talks to work on an actual deal.

The 90 day deal which the greater deal is worked out is a deal - you're lying and spinning because this undercuts the agenda of your party,

Sorry you're so bitter at reality.

One of us is dealing in reality - you simply are not - it's grief - you were so damned sure that America was done..

 

[ataraxia]

The point I made in the second post, that you of the left would completely melt down.

You don't disappoint.

I think the left's melt down is mostly because they have a 34-count convicted felon, rapist, financial fraud, and mental asylum escapee running their country- put there by the "moral majority" and "party of law and order".

 

[Dans La Lune]

A point I've been repeatedly making: this kind of top-down government-driven re-shaping and control of the economy for political ends is an inherently leftist approach.

Those are not the foundations of socialism.

 

[devildavid]

Again you're lying. I stated and substantiated that the administration announced there is a deal.

WHICH indeed there is;





Again you're lying. There is a deal as demonstrated above.

I understand, America winning is the left losing.



Oh the irony.

You seem to be combining both denial and anger into your grief. You were SO SURE America would fail, but then it all came crumbling down, again... It's a repeat of November all over again... Your confidence, bolstered by this echo chamber - shattered...

Indeed there is no trade deal. There is an agreement by Trump not to carry out his tariff bluffs and to talk. He could have skipped the bluff and just talked. But instead he messed up the world economy and then decided to talk when it all blew up in his face.

 

[Dans La Lune]

It's easy to call something 'socialist' when you fundamentally don't understand the term on even a basic level.

Government intervention is not socialism.

 

[devildavid]

I think the left's melt down is mostly because they have a 34-count convicted felon, rapist, financial fraud, and mental asylum escapee running their country- put there by the "moral majority" and "party of law and order".

The only meltdown happening is from the Trump cult. They melt down when their cult leader is criticized and pointed out to be the proverbial naked emperor.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Trump is actually a hyper-capitalist. He believes that government power should be consolidated in the hands of private interests. Namely himself, his family, and the business interests he serves. His power is not reflected in the will of the people, but rather a minoritarian ruling elite.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So are the MSM getting this wrong when they say it was a “trade deal”?

https://www.npr.org/2025/05/12/nx-s1-5395027/us-china-tariffs-deal-trade-war-beijing-washington

https://www.reuters.com/world/what-have-china-united-states-agreed-geneva-2025-05-12/

Ikari is experiencing profound grief.

MSNBC programmed the drones that Trump is failing and that America is facing financial disaster - the stock markets crashing, inflation at 10,000% and that finally the proletarians would rise up and push the collectivist totalitarian nirvana - under the wise dictatorship of Xi Jinping and George Soros.

Of course the radical left echo chamber that is Debate Politics echos this as leftists affirm and reaffirm party mantras to each other. Congratulating other drones on how well they faithfully chant the chakras of party.

This creates such an insulation from reality that the drones have no grasp that the DOW is in the same range it has been for a year, that gas and egg prices are vastly lower than they were Biden's last day in office. Store shelves are not empty they way the left dreams they would be. AND it's getting to the point that leftists can't even set their neighbor's Tesla on fire without worrying about being arrested.

Now Trump brokers a ceasefire between India and Pakistan? Makes an agreement with the UK on trade? Makes a deal to halt tariffs with China as a broader trade deal is hammered out?
@Ikari is watching his whole world, all the dreams of making America into the USSR of Stalin crumble to dust.

Mourning is expected - denial followed by anger - which his posts exhibit - are just manifestations of the profound grief of the dream dissipating.

 

[devildavid]

What Trump is doing is Trumpism. Trumpism is political theater meant to gain constant attention to himself. It has no other purpose. There is absolutely no ideology of any kind motivating Trump.

 

[Dans La Lune]

90% of what Trump is doing is Heritage Foundation shit. This is the dumbest ****ing thread I've ever seen.

 

[devildavid]

Ikari is experiencing profound grief.

MSNBC programmed the drones that Trump is failing and that America is facing financial disaster - the stock markets crashing, inflation at 10,000% and that finally the proletarians would rise up and push the collectivist totalitarian nirvana - under the wise dictatorship of Xi Jinping and George Soros.

Of course the radical left echo chamber that is Debate Politics echos this as leftists affirm and reaffirm party mantras to each other. Congratulating other drones on how well they faithfully chant the chakras of party.

This creates such an insulation from reality that the drones have no grasp that the DOW is in the same range it has been for a year, that gas and egg prices are vastly lower than they were Biden's last day in office. Store shelves are not empty they way the left dreams they would be. AND it's getting to the point that leftists can't even set their neighbor's Tesla on fire without worrying about being arrested.

Now Trump brokers a ceasefire between India and Pakistan? Makes an agreement with the UK on trade? Makes a deal to halt tariffs with China as a broader trade deal is hammered out?
@Ikari is watching his whole world, all the dreams of making America into the USSR of Stalin crumble to dust.

Mourning is expected - denial followed by anger - which his posts exhibit - are just manifestations of the profound grief of the dream dissipating.

What you are experiencing is called blind beliefs of a cult member. The cult leader makes untrue claims about all he has done and you believe it despite there being no evidence for it other than the cult leaders claims. Blind cult beliefs can only be broken by seeing and then accepting reality.

 

[cpwill]

Those are not the foundations of socialism.

What I stated was:

this kind of top-down government-driven re-shaping and control of the economy for political ends is an inherently leftist approach.

...because it is. As of yesterday, Trump is also calling for price caps to push down the prices of pharmaceuticals.


How the article in the OP defined Socialism was:

Socialism doesn’t mean high taxes or an expensive welfare state.... Japan has an extensive social-welfare apparatus, and it is far from socialist. Singapore is super-capitalist, and it offers my favorite kind of welfare: direct money payments to poor people. Even the big-spending Scandinavians have long abandoned the experiments in socialism that wrecked their economies... Socialism means a centrally planned economy, one that is dominated by state action irrespective of whether it is dominated by formal state enterprises.

Which, yeah, is pretty foundational.

 

[Dans La Lune]

What I stated was:


Which, yeah, is pretty foundational.

The foundation of socialism is egalitarianism. On what ****ing planet can Trump's policies be considered egalitarian?

 

[SkyChief]

It's easy to call something 'socialist' when you fundamentally don't understand the term on even a basic level.

Government intervention is not socialism.

Bullshit. There is no Free Market in socialism.

With socialism, the GOVERNMENT determines the amount and rate of production, and the pricing levels of these goods and services rather than the free market. People in socialist economies may depend on the state for food, employment, healthcare, and other basic goods.

There could not be more intervention than to deny the people the incentives to succeed and excel.

 

[devildavid]

What I stated was:



...because it is. As of yesterday, Trump is also calling for price caps to push down the prices of pharmaceuticals.


How the article in the OP defined Socialism was:



Which, yeah, is pretty foundational.

Trump doesn’t operate out of any political or social ideology at all. He operates out of his own mental deficiency of thinking he is the big boss and he does what will generate the most headlines and attention. He is playing an obnoxious big boss character to his adoring masses. He has no ideological values at all. He is driven by extreme insecurity and the need for constant attention. You are seeing things that aren’t there. All of his actions are just an act, just bluff and bluster. None of them have the slightest hope of being implemented.

 

[ataraxia]

Bullshit. There is no Free Market in socialism. With socialism, the GOVERRNMENT determines the amount of output (or supply) and the pricing levels of these goods and services rather than the free market. People in socialist economies may depend on the state for food, employment, healthcare, and other basic goods.

There are no pure free market economies in the world. There never have been- anywhere, at any time in history. It's not because everyone is too stupid to appreciate its bounties.

 

[Callen]

Bullshit. There is no Free Market in socialism. With socialism, the GOVERRNMENT determines the amount of output (or supply) and the pricing levels of these goods and services rather than the free market. People in socialist economies may depend on the state for food, employment, healthcare, and other basic goods.

Then why do so many Americans insist on calling Canada a socialist country?

 

[Dans La Lune]

Bullshit. There is no Free Market in socialism.

There is no free market PERIOD. Government ultimately steers the market through policy which determines who gets the benefit. There is no capitalist free market, just government steering the market towards capitalist interests.

 

[devildavid]

Bullshit. There is no Free Market in socialism.

With socialism, the GOVERNMENT determines the amount of output (or supply) and the pricing levels of these goods and services rather than the free market. People in socialist economies may depend on the state for food, employment, healthcare, and other basic goods.

There could not be more intervention than to deny the populace the incentives to succeed and excel.

No, that is communism. There is a difference between the two. Socialism doesn’t require government control over output or pricing levels. People don’t have a dependence on the government for their basic needs. That is not true at all.

 

[SkyChief]

Then why do so many Americans insist on calling Canada a socialist country?

You're asking ME? You should be asking the people who make that claim.

There are no pure free market economies in the world. There never have been- anywhere, at any time in history. It's not because everyone is too stupid to appreciate its bounties.

The fallacious statement was made that "Government intervention is not socialism. " that's a load of shit - Nothing could be further from the truth. Socialism RELIES on government intervention - in Markets, in labor, in trade, in medicine, etc.

 

[devildavid]

Then why do so many Americans insist on calling Canada a socialist country?

Canadians don’t get their food, clothing, and housing from the government. In fact, there are no countries who provide these things no matter if some label them socialist or communist. There are no such countries at all and never have been. This is a mostly a fantasy of extreme right wingers.

 

[Callen]

Canadians don’t get their food, clothing, and housing from the government.

Nor, contrary to a popular RW misconception, do we get our healthcare from the government.

 

[Dans La Lune]

'Egalitarianism plays a fundamental role in the philosophical and practical foundations of socialism. At its core, socialism is an economic and political system that aims to achieve a more equitable distribution of wealth and resources, often through social ownership of the means of production. Egalitarianism, the belief in the equality of all people, provides the moral and ethical underpinnings for this goal. Here, we explore the various dimensions of how egalitarianism informs and shapes socialist theory and practice.

Relational Egalitarianism​

One of the key strands of egalitarianism in socialism is relational egalitarianism. This approach emphasizes the importance of equal social relations and the elimination of inegalitarian forms of dependence. Unlike the freedom as non-domination view, which focuses on the absence of arbitrary power, relational egalitarianism argues that a just society is one where individuals are treated as equals in their social interactions. This perspective is particularly strong in addressing issues of fairness and exploitation, which are central to socialist thought.

Distributive Egalitarianism​

Another important aspect is distributive egalitarianism, which advocates for the equal distribution of resources and wealth. This form of egalitarianism is closely aligned with the socialist goal of reducing economic inequalities. Proponents argue that every member of society should have equal access to wealth and the ability to make money, whether through investments, entrepreneurial efforts, or income from employment. This line of thinking forms the basis for Marxism and socialism, which seek to create a society where the means of production are controlled by the community as a whole.

Historical Development​

Egalitarianism has been a driving force in the development of socialist movements throughout history. The Enlightenment, feminism, civil rights, and international human rights movements have all been influenced by egalitarian principles. For example, the Chinese philosophy of agriculturalism, which advocated for egalitarian self-sufficiency, can be seen as an early form of economic egalitarianism.

Economic Policies​

In practice, socialist policies often aim to reduce economic inequalities through various means, such as progressive taxation, social welfare programs, and the nationalization of key industries. These policies are designed to ensure that all individuals have access to the resources and opportunities they need to succeed, thereby promoting economic egalitarianism.

Social and Political Equality​

Socialism also emphasizes the importance of social and political equality. This includes equal rights and treatment under the law, equal representation in political processes, and the elimination of discrimination based on gender, race, and other social categories. Social egalitarianism seeks to ensure that all individuals have the same social power and influence, fostering a more democratic and inclusive society.

Conclusion​

Egalitarianism is a central tenet of socialism, providing both the moral justification and practical framework for achieving a more equitable society. Through relational and distributive egalitarianism, socialism seeks to eliminate economic and social inequalities, promote fair treatment, and ensure that all individuals have the resources and opportunities they need to thrive. While there are challenges and debates surrounding the implementation of these principles, the commitment to egalitarianism remains a defining feature of socialist thought and practice.'

 

[Dans La Lune]

You can DISAGREE with socialism but anyone who tries to equate Trump and Trumpism with Socialism (other than National Socialism) is drinking some HerpaDerp juice.

 

[ataraxia]

You're asking ME? You should be asking the people who make that claim.


The fallacious statement was made that "Government intervention is not socialism. " that's a load of shit - Nothing could be further from the truth. Socialism RELIES on government intervention - in Markets, in labor, in trade, in medicine, etc.

So like traffic lights are socialism? What about government inspecting the meat you buy from the grocery store for fecal matter?