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Donald Trump: I may not repeal Obamacare

You mean you're looking for actual legislative language?
I don't think I've ever read the actual ACA language but that's where they hid the good stuff.
As for the Senate, they may be able to take care of some or all of repeal through budget reconciliation that only requires a majority.
After all, the pivotal ACA provision was declared a tax and reconciliation was used for that before.
Having the House, Senate, and WH would make it very easy.

As I said to cpwill, we're all going to learn together what kind of "replace" legislation can get through the various factions of the House, when nearly all of them have to vote yes, and Senate.

I don't personally think it will look very much like Ryan's third or fourth version of "replace" but I could be wrong. We'll see. The point is I don't think that a "plan" like Ryan's latest that wasn't ever actually intended to be something that COULD get through even the House (the point was to give GOPers a "plan" to use on the campaign trail) means anything really. If you guys disagree, that's fine.
 
I didn't say Obama invented it, but cons whined and cried about how it was "hurting" to have those people covered under the ACA. Now that Trump is keeping it, cons are back peddling.
I was never against those two things.
 
That's what happens when a person simply can't comprehend that they've let themselves get caught up in a media circle jerk.

Or let the pundits tell then what to believe, instead of using any critical thinking skills.
 
It's not a total disaster, it's the right thing to do, and why he got elected (not counting Hillary's evil crookedness). It's unsustainable, and needs to be replaced. It was passed with bribery.

Nancy Pelosi:



And the democrats were stupid enough to pass it with no republican votes...
 
No, it's actually not

It actually is. Furthermore, by the standard you are setting up, it would have been impossible for the Republicans to have a plan, due to Democrat opposition – making the accusation rather worthless.


I'll wait like you will to see what Republicans come up with as the "replace" for Obamacare. You don't have a clue what it will look like and neither do I and we can learn together.

:shrug: it will have to include some of what Trump wants, sure. It will likely be a modification of the Republican plan towards that.

Some facets, however, are already making themselves fairly clear – for example, not allowing insurers to deny pre-existing conditions so long as those individuals had insurance when they developed the condition, in order to discourage free-riding (which current law encourages). It will likely also make HSA's universally available.
 
:spin: :spin: :spin:

3 days after the election and some people are already trying to spin information to make themselves feel justified in refusing to accept the results by making those who voted for him think they made a mistake.

Nowhere has Trump stated he "may not repeal Obamacare." All he said was that he might keep two worthwhile coverage concerns in any replacement his government proposes. :coffeepap:
I believe the spin will come right back at you, Sir, when you see he doesn't get rid of it on day one. The very same with that big beautiful wall that Mexico is going to pay for.

Just like Sander's idea of a free college education. Our government just doesn't work that way. :shrug:
 
It actually is. Furthermore, by the standard you are setting up, it would have been impossible for the Republicans to have a plan, due to Democrat opposition – making the accusation rather worthless.

it will have to include some of what Trump wants, sure. It will likely be a modification of the Republican plan towards that.

Some facets, however, are already making themselves fairly clear – for example, not allowing insurers to deny pre-existing conditions so long as those individuals had insurance when they developed the condition, in order to discourage free-riding (which current law encourages). It will likely also make HSA's universally available.

Well, goodness, that's a "replace plan" all by itself! HSAs and some minor tweaks on pre-existing conditions is all we need and we've got healthcare 'reform' handled. Next!

But just for grins, does ANY insurance count. Let's say you have a mini me plan like under pre-ACA rules, that topped out at 10k or so per year, maybe 50k lifetime, with a 4k deductible or some crap. Is that "insurance" and so you can get diagnosed with cancer, then go get a full blown policy at the same rate as a perfectly healthy person? That's free riding, same as the ACA tax.

How about people who are too poor to afford insurance, aren't women with children, and don't qualify for Medicaid because Ryan's plan cuts the funding, and they get diabetes? The 'solution' is high risk pools but to work (and they have failed miserably everywhere they've been tried) is sufficient funding. So how much funding goes to that 'solution'?

It's the "little" stuff like that that makes something an actual proposal and not a think piece meant for talking points. But as I keep saying, yes, the GOP has had MANY "plans" over the years. We will see which one of them gets through the Freedom Caucus and the House then the Senate!
 
Well, goodness, that's a "replace plan" all by itself!

:) No, it is simply a few of the major features of the current GOP plan, which will likely be imported into the compromise plan between the GOP in congress and Trump.

But just for grins, does ANY insurance count. Let's say you have a mini me plan like under pre-ACA rules, that topped out at 10k or so per year, maybe 50k lifetime, with a 4k deductible or some crap. Is that "insurance" and so you can get diagnosed with cancer, then go get a full blown policy at the same rate as a perfectly healthy person? That's free riding, same as the ACA tax.

No, that is discounted-price riding. Generally speaking, the intent is to push insurance back towards catastrophic insurance (ie: insurance, as opposed to a socialized pre-payment program, which is what we are running with now).

How about people who are too poor to afford insurance, aren't women with children, and don't qualify for Medicaid because Ryan's plan cuts the funding, and they get diabetes?

:) Ryan does not and never has proposed a cut to Medicaid. He has proposed block-granting it to the States, so that they can better find ways to spend the money to help their own unique populaces.

That being said,

The predominance of employer-based plans also has had the unhappy effect of anchoring some workers at jobs that fit them poorly but that provide needed medical coverage. Ryan’s plan would replace this with an advanceable tax incentive paid out in monthly installments to health-care consumers themselves, which could be used to pay for a variety of different health-insurance plans shaped by consumer demand rather than by federal mandate. Any money left over after insurance-premium payments would be put into an HSA-style individual account and would be available to cover out-of-pocket expenses such as co-pays or uninsured expenses.



But as I keep saying, yes, the GOP has had MANY "plans" over the years

Gosh. That kinda seems like the opposite of the claim that they don't even have one.
 
Ryan does not and never has proposed a cut to Medicaid. He has proposed block-granting it to the States, so that they can better find ways to spend the money to help their own unique populaces.

Of course he has. Maybe you're not clear on what a block grant is: it severs the federal financial commitment from the actual cost of the program. What was a countercyclical program (more people become eligible during recessions) becomes a ticking time bomb for when the next recession hits. States in turn get "flexibility" to turn away people in eligibility categories that have existed for decades, and needless to say the new eligibility category is repealed.

So less federal money is available and fewer people are eligible. That's a big cut.
 
:) No, it is simply a few of the major features of the current GOP plan, which will likely be imported into the compromise plan between the GOP in congress and Trump.

In other words, we'll both learn in January what the plan will be!

No, that is discounted-price riding. Generally speaking, the intent is to push insurance back towards catastrophic insurance (ie: insurance, as opposed to a socialized pre-payment program, which is what we are running with now).

The tax and mandate function as "discounted-price riding" if that's the term you want to use. And as to 'catastrophic' type insurance, that's great if you're young and healthy - like I gather you are. I take a drug that costs $3,000 a month, so a 'catastrophic' plan is just one with a huge deductible that I'll meet every single year, with no illness or injury. Same is true for lots of people with chronic illnesses like mine.

Ryan does not and never has proposed a cut to Medicaid. He has proposed block-granting it to the States, so that they can better find ways to spend the money to help their own unique populaces.

LOL, of course he did. Unless you work for some GOP Congressman, no need to try that crap. "Block granting" is budget code for "cut spending" with the hope that market forces work their 'magic.' But this analysis estimates that Medicaid coverage will drop by 18 million people in the next decade, 10 million of that drop by 2019, and of course the whole point of Medicaid "reform" is to cut Medicaid spending, which Ryan's plan will do, by $636 billion over 10 years, and $95 billion in year 10. The tax credit is about $360 billion so even if that is counted as replacing those losses (I'm being generous because the credits go to anyone at any level not covered at work or by Medicare/Medicaid), it's still a net cut of nearly $300 billion....


That being said,

The predominance of employer-based plans also has had the unhappy effect of anchoring some workers at jobs that fit them poorly but that provide needed medical coverage. Ryan’s plan would replace this with an advanceable tax incentive paid out in monthly installments to health-care consumers themselves, which could be used to pay for a variety of different health-insurance plans shaped by consumer demand rather than by federal mandate. Any money left over after insurance-premium payments would be put into an HSA-style individual account and would be available to cover out-of-pocket expenses such as co-pays or uninsured expenses.

Nothing wrong with that, and whether it works or not depends on how big the credits are and who gets them. It will be nice for middle and upper income people who will all get some help, and not so good for poor people who can't buy comprehensive insurance for the credit amount, and for whom a serious illness will likely still bankrupt them if they are relying on a catastrophic plan. We will see - like I said, "little" things like the amount of the credits and who gets them are what we need to see.

Gosh. That kinda seems like the opposite of the claim that they don't even have one.

IMO, the "plans" so far are worth nearly nothing, but you disagree on the semantics, as we've discussed.
 
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Of course he has. Maybe you're not clear on what a block grant is: it severs the federal financial commitment from the actual cost of the program. What was a countercyclical program (more people become eligible during recessions) becomes a ticking time bomb for when the next recession hits. States in turn get "flexibility" to turn away people in eligibility categories that have existed for decades, and needless to say the new eligibility category is repealed.

So less federal money is available and fewer people are eligible. That's a big cut.

I linked it below in my response, but in case you didn't notice, this analysis estimates the cut at $636 billion/10 years and 18 million people.

I think cpwill thinks he's talking to some Trump voters or something.... ;)
 
I for one am very relieved that as the GOP renews its pledges to reverse the progress that's been made on expanding coverage and containing costs by repealing the ACA, at least we know they have a replacement plan ready to go.

Whoops, no they don't.

Drafting a sustainable replacement to the Affordable Care Act could take years, Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Chairman Lamar Alexander warned Thursday.

Alexander said replacing Obamacare could take longer than the education bill he worked to pass last year, which took six years.

Who knew they had no plan? I am utterly, utterly shocked.

But man, when this thing drops in 2022, it's going to be so worth the wait!
 
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I for one am very relieved that as the GOP renews its pledges to reverse the progress that's been made on expanding coverage and containing costs by repealing the ACA, at least we know they have a replacement plan ready to go.

Whoops, no they don't.



Who knew they had no plan? I am utterly, utterly shocked.

But man, when this thing drops in 2022, it's going to be so worth the wait!

[h=3]PDF]Legislative Actions to Repeal, Defund, or Delay the Affordable Care Act[/h]https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43289.pdf



Nov 10, 2016 - numerous ACA-related bills, including legislation that would repeal the ... replace the ACA's mandatory appropriations with authorizations of ...
 
Nov 10, 2016 - numerous ACA-related bills, including legislation that would repeal the ... replace the ACA's mandatory appropriations with authorizations of ...

You're referring to this (from later in the document)?

A bill to convert funding for graduate medical education (GME) in qualified teaching health centers (THCs) to an authorization of appropriations. Passed the House by a vote of 234-185 on May 25, 2011. H.R. 1216 would have replaced the appropriation for GME payments to THCs with an authorization of appropriations for each of FY2012 through FY2015, and rescinded all unobligated funds. It would have prohibited the GME funds from being used to provide abortions, except in cases of rape or incest or when the woman’s life is in danger.

A bill from 5 years ago that would turn mandatory funds for training more doctors into discretionary funds so Congress could more easily block them? (I do like that you're highlighting that the ACA did include money for increasing capacity and the number of docs in the health care system, something the GOP apparently isn't onboard with.)

This is what you're holding up as the "replace" part of the deal? "We'll repeal your coverage but in return we'll replace it with...fewer doctors." Are you kidding me right now?
 
You're referring to this (from later in the document)?



A bill from 5 years ago that would turn mandatory funds for training more doctors into discretionary funds so Congress could more easily block them? (I do like that you're highlighting that the ACA did include money for increasing capacity and the number of docs in the health care system, something the GOP apparently isn't onboard with.)

This is what you're holding up as the "replace" part of the deal? "We'll repeal your coverage but in return we'll replace it with...fewer doctors." Are you kidding me right now?

The PDF cites numerous pieces of legislation. The point was simply to demonstrate work is already well under way.
 
The PDF cites numerous pieces of legislation. The point was simply to demonstrate work is already well under way.

All of which are repeals of various pieces of the ACA. We get it: they want to repeal it.

The question is what takes its place. And the answer on that from the GOP today is the same as it's been for the past six years: we'll get back to you on that, just give us a few more years.
 
All of which are repeals of various pieces of the ACA. We get it: they want to repeal it.

The question is what takes its place. And the answer on that from the GOP today is the same as it's been for the past six years: we'll get back to you on that, just give us a few more years.

Except for the number of plans which have been put forward, including those scored by the CBO, you're, like, totes spot on.
 
Except for the number of plans which have been put forward, including those scored by the CBO, you're, like, totes spot on.

A day or two ago they were kicking around two more years until they'll have a replacement plan; now the chair of the Senate committee with jurisdiction over health care is saying maybe more like six.

What replacement plan has the CBO scored?
 
A day or two ago they were kicking around two more years until they'll have a replacement plan; now the chair of the Senate committee with jurisdiction over health care is saying maybe more like six.

What replacement plan has the CBO scored?

My mistake, the "Better Way" was not scored by the CBO.

But it IS an actual plan, and analyzed here:

A Better Way to Fix Health Care | Center for Health & Economy

Along with other Republican and non-Republican plans.
 
My mistake, the "Better Way" was not scored by the CBO.

But it IS an actual plan, and analyzed here:

A Better Way to Fix Health Care | Center for Health & Economy

Along with other Republican and non-Republican plans.

I think we all understand there have been various "replace" plans proposed over the years. The only dispute is whether those "plans" are at all meaningful. I don't believe they are, because they haven't been endorsed by really anyone except the small group of people drafting them. And what we expect is the "replace" that passes the House (if any) will have little resemblance to that plan, and in any event (imo) NO ONE has a clue what that GOP replace plan, should it arise in our lifetimes, will look like.

The analogy is tax reform. Obviously the GOP has a "plan" for "tax reform" - heck, they have a dozen (Carson, Rubio, Trump, Bush, Kasich, Cruz, Paul....)! So are any of them meaningful? Not IMO, because the point of them was to serve as talking points/propaganda for a campaign, not actual legislation where things like deficits and debt matter and where you have to get a majority in the House AND Senate to sign off.
 
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