Does this make a difference in our trade with Cananda?

[Lord Tammerlain]

Canada puts tariffs as high as 241% on milk and 245% on some cheeses when import quotas are exceeded. I'd call that very protectionist. This is one area that is in need a big do-over for our country's benefit.

You realize the US subsidizes dairy production massively

 

[dmpi]

So one Canadian should spend the same on American goods as ten Americans do on Canadian goods?
Are you ****ing serious?

Its a ratio. If you have a big population you imports should be higher, but so should your exports.

 

[Grand Mal]

Its a ratio. If you have a big population you imports should be higher, but so should your exports.

Yeah, so what?
Do you understand that trade is between companies, not governments? Is this how you picture the scenario playing out...

John Deere-"Hello, Stelco? We'd like to order 20 tons of 1/4" mild steel plate."
Stelco- "Sorry, the Canadian government says we can't sell you any more steel until a Canadian company buys $18M dollars worth of something from an American company."

Is that how you picture international trade happening?

 

[trixare4kids]

But Trump took care of all that stuff when he trashed NAFTA and dictated the terms of the USAMC agreement.
Are you saying Trump ****ed up?

It's come to our country's attention that it's unfair and time to for Canada to end its supply management system or we renegotiate and implement a similar system on Canadian imports when they exceed our import quotas.

 

[Grand Mal]

It's come to our country's attention that it's unfair and time to for Canada to end its supply management system or we renegotiate and implement a similar system on Canadian imports when they exceed our import quotas.

What? Supply management system? Did you get that in your inbox this afternoon?
You have import quotas? And they've been exceeded?
Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

 

[Metric Mouse]

Yes we import total goods from Canada than they do from us, but If you look at it differently, by total population then they actually import from us, 7 times more per person than we import from them.

For sure.

But more importantly, look at imports and exports as a percentage of GDP...

Might change some people's mind, those two facts...

 

[Metric Mouse]

You realize the US subsidizes dairy production massively

Do they?

How so?

And why would they do this?

 

[Evilroddy]

Canada puts tariffs as high as 241% on milk and 245% on some cheeses when import quotas are exceeded. I'd call that very protectionist. This is one area that is in need a big do-over for our country's benefit.

Trix:

No we don't those are notional tariffs built into the USMCA trade deal which Trump himself negotiated and would only kick in when the US decides to inundate us with dairy products. Those high tariffs have never been imposed. We in Canada don't want your dairy products because of the heavy use of synthetic growth hormones and the heavy abuse of antibiotics which US dairy producers employ to maximize their dairy and beef yields at the expense of consumers health. It is Canadian preferences, some quotas in Quebec and not tariffs which account for low demand for American dairy products in Canada.

Be Well and avoid your dairy products.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

It's come to our country's attention that it's unfair and time to for Canada to end its supply management system or we renegotiate and implement a similar system on Canadian imports when they exceed our import quotas.

Trix:

No.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

And they have heavy tariffs on goods we sell to them. They are very protectionist and we take a screwing because of it.

Probably best not to let the guy who negotiated USMCA be involved in any more "deals" then, huh?

 

[Evilroddy]

Its a ratio. If you have a big population you imports should be higher, but so should your exports.

dmpl:

How many American cars do you expect a Canadian family to buy at one time? 8.25 cars? Export purchases should reflect the size of the population in the country which you're selling to. Your idea is daft.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Do they?

How so?

And why would they do this?

Dairy Price Support Program - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Price support,

They will buy certain dairy products at set prices regardless of supply

So farmers can produce milk at double the market demand and the US government will buy the excess at good prices.

Certainly distorting the supply and demand curve by always ensuring demand

U.S. dairy subsidies equal 73 percent of producer returns, says new report

Comparing government support for Canadian versus American dairy farmers is not a simple black and white process. While Canada's dairy sector operates under a regulated supply management system, the U.S. government's support for its dairy farmers is less direct. Support, in its various forms...

www.realagriculture.com

73% of dairy farmers income is from the government back in 2017. Gosh darn socialism I tell you. Unfair trade practice as well

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Population shouldn't matter because the key ratio is imports/exports which ideally should be 1.0. Where imports roughly match exports.

How does that remotely make any kind of sense? Does your local grocery store buy as much in groceries from you as you buy from them? Does your local hardware store buy as much from you as you buy from them?

We have a trade deficit because we are a wealthy nation that likes buying a bunch of stuff, and can afford to buy a bunch of stuff.

Your idea that there should be an equality of outcome here is like a poor implementation of Socialism by someone who doesn't really understand Socialism, but thinks that the world would be more fair if everyone had an equal amount of wealth.

If Americans don't want a trade deficit, all they have to do is take a little bit of personal responsibility and stop buying things.

Or, alternatively, if they like having things instead of not having things, they can continue to use their wealth to buy things, and just stop whining about how less affluent countries don't buy as much as they do.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Dairy Price Support Program - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Wait, what? So there were no subsidies, only price floors that raised the prices paid for milk, not lowered it, and even those raised prices expired ten years ago?

What?

So farmers can produce milk at double the market demand and the US government will buy the excess at good prices.

So that raises the price of milk... not lowers it.

And makes it less competitive for sale elsewhere... not more competitive...

Certainly distorting the supply and demand curve by always ensuring demand

For sure, but it distorts it in a way that makes it less competitive to export, not more...

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

So Canada should stop selling to us after a certain point?

If they stopped selling us electricity right now, that would go a long way to fixing this terrible trade deficit, wouldn't it?

 

[Yes_Minister]

Canada puts tariffs as high as 241% on milk and 245% on some cheeses when import quotas are exceeded. I'd call that very protectionist. This is one area that is in need a big do-over for our country's benefit.

Doesn't the US subsidize its dairy industry?

 

[Yes_Minister]

No, but instead of getting US dollars they should get US products.

You mean like a barter system?

 

[Evilroddy]

Do they?

How so?

And why would they do this?

Metric Mouse:

Generally:

Subsidy Tracker

Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

Specific to agriculture and dairy:

U.S. dairy subsidies equal 73 percent of producer returns, says new report

Comparing government support for Canadian versus American dairy farmers is not a simple black and white process. While Canada's dairy sector operates under a regulated supply management system, the U.S. government's support for its dairy farmers is less direct. Support, in its various forms...

www.realagriculture.com

Dairy - Policy | Economic Research Service

www.ers.usda.gov

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Canada puts tariffs as high as 241% on milk and 245% on some cheeses when import quotas are exceeded. I'd call that very protectionist. This is one area that is in need a big do-over for our country's benefit.

Are you talking about the USMCA that Trump negotiated?

So Trump put Canadian import tariffs as high as 241% on milk and 245% on some cheeses when import quotas are exceeded? You must be so mad at Trump for screwing America over like that.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Metric Mouse:

Generally:

Subsidy Tracker

Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

Specific to agriculture and dairy:

U.S. dairy subsidies equal 73 percent of producer returns, says new report

Comparing government support for Canadian versus American dairy farmers is not a simple black and white process. While Canada's dairy sector operates under a regulated supply management system, the U.S. government's support for its dairy farmers is less direct. Support, in its various forms...

www.realagriculture.com

Dairy - Policy | Economic Research Service

www.ers.usda.gov

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

So American subsidies raised the prices for American milk, not lowered them?

So this makes them less competitive for export, not more?

And Canada is mad? Why?

 

[phoenix2020]

Trix:

No we don't those are notional tariffs built into the USMCA trade deal which Trump himself negotiated and would only kick in when the US decides to inundate us with dairy products. Those high tariffs have never been imposed. We in Canada don't want your dairy products because of the heavy use of synthetic growth hormones and the heavy abuse of antibiotics which US dairy producers employ to maximize their dairy and beef yields at the expense of consumers health. It is Canadian preferences, some quotas in Quebec and not tariffs which account for low demand for American dairy products in Canada.

Be Well and avoid your dairy products.
Evilroddy.

Good info and post.

Thoughts and prayers to @trixare4kids on the face-plant.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

And Canada is mad? Why?

Because we stabbed them in the back, started a trade war with them unprovoked, and threatened to annex them?

Just a guess.

 

[Evilroddy]

So American subsidies raised the prices for American milk, not lowered them?

So this makes them less competitive for export, not more?

And Canada is mad? Why?

Metric Mouse:

Most of those direct and indirect subsidies are for disaster relief as your agricultural sector is imploding. Of the $70+ Billion going to agriculture about 37 Billion is covering drought and flood compensation to name but two causes. As the US Dairy industry has become more productive it has also been losing more money somehow (flooding the market with over production). It's being propped up by public monies.

My Beef with Dairy: How the US Government Is Bailing out a Dying Industry – Northeastern University Political Review

nupoliticalreview.org

Dairy Subsidies Could Cost $19 Billion Without New Farm Bill

In a report called Expiration of the Farm Bill, the Congressional Research Service said dairy subsidies could cost between $15 billion and $19 billion a year — a 28-fold increase — under rules that would go into effect on Jan. 1 without enactment of a new farm bill, extension of the current law...

www.agriculture.com

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

Edit: Corrected duplicate link.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Because we stabbed them in the back, started a trade war with them unprovoked, and threatened to annex them?

Just a guess.

So they'll get over the milk thing then, yes?

 

[Metric Mouse]

Metric Mouse:

Most of those direct and indirect subsidies are for disaster relief as your agricultural sector is imploding. Of the $70+ Billion going to agriculture about 37 Billion is covering drought and flood compensation to name but two causes. As the US Dairy industry has become more productive it has also been losing more money somehow (flooding the market with over production). It's being propped up by public monies.

My Beef with Dairy: How the US Government Is Bailing out a Dying Industry – Northeastern University Political Review

nupoliticalreview.org

U.S. dairy subsidies equal 73 percent of producer returns, says new report

Comparing government support for Canadian versus American dairy farmers is not a simple black and white process. While Canada's dairy sector operates under a regulated supply management system, the U.S. government's support for its dairy farmers is less direct. Support, in its various forms...

www.realagriculture.com

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

Yes, and this RIASED the price of milk from the US, not lowered it? Right?

So why would Canada, or anyone, be mad?