What worries me is how few people remember how many times the USA has sent the U.S. military into countries all over this planet to protect and rescue American citizens without asking permission from anyone.
If it's OK for the USA to do that, why isn't OK for Russia to do it?
Is there one set of rules for the USA and another set of rules for Russia?
If so-Fill me in, Because this is news to me.
What worries me is how few people remember how many times the USA has sent the U.S. military into countries all over this planet to protect and rescue American citizens without asking permission from anyone.
If it's OK for the USA to do that, why isn't OK for Russia to do it?
Is there one set of rules for the USA and another set of rules for Russia?
If so-Fill me in, Because this is news to me.
The Russians in Crimea are a minority of Ukraine. They can benefit special privileges as a minority in Ukraine. Perhaps the Russian army is there to make sure that they do.
We have other concerns much closer to home to worry about, is why. For example:I don't know why we're not talking more about the situation in Ukraine on this site.
My children are in Ohio, so between them getting suspended over something this dumb, or fretting about people on the other side of the planet whom I neither know nor whom will likely ever have any impact on my life, I care more about the former.Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended - ABC News
A central Ohio principal says she suspended a 10-year-old boy from school for three days for pretending his finger was a gun and pointing it at another student's head.The boy's father says it's the adults who are acting childish for suspending the boy from Devonshire Alternative Elementary School in Columbus last week.
I'm with the dad on this one.
If the United States decides to act in order to protect its citizens on foreign soil...it generally agreed upon by the world body as required or acceptable. In this case we have the opposite.
If the United States decides to act in order to protect its citizens on foreign soil...it generally agreed upon by the world body as required or acceptable.In this case we have the opposite.
My experience in traveling is that if you're in trouble in a foreign country, you are on your own and better have a lawyer.I wasn't aware that the military was sent to other countries to rescue americans. Do you have a list of these times the military did this?
Around 2009, Israeli military boarded a ship in international waters and kidnapped a former US congresswoman and 2008 presidential candidate. They kept her and several others in prison, and where was the U.S. Military? Nowhere to be found. Obama? Raising money somewhere. She was finally released, but the military didn't rescue her.
I don't know why we're not talking more about the situation in Ukraine on this site.
A few days ago, I responded to one of the threads by wondering aloud whether Putin was going to put up with the West encroaching on a former Soviet satellite. I compared the situation to Georgia a few years ago, when the Russians went in. In fact, that was at an Olympics as well if I recall.
It turns out I was right, and I'm not happy to say that.
Anyway, I have learned to generally ignore the news, but after hearing the Russian military is now in Crimea I have sat up and taken notice.
If you watch Obama's press conference addressing the issue, he looks visibly shaken and maybe even scared. And he probably should be, this is the biggest moment in his presidency.
This is much more important than Obamacare, more important than Benghazi, any of that trivial stuff.
I'm going to put it bluntly. I'd say there's about a 15% chance that this situation causes World War 3. It's literally that serious.
What you have to do is look at it from Russia's perspective. If Ukraine goes westward, joins the EU, joins NATO.... all things the Russians fear.... then it's essentially Russia admitting defeat. It's Russia's sphere of influence shrinking for all the world to see.
That may not be a forgivable offense in the eyes of the Russian people. That might mean Putin's head on the chopping block, and you can bet your ass he sees it that way too.
Not only are the soldiers in Ukraine, a Russian spy ship just docked in Cuba 100 miles from Miami. The ship poses no harm, but it sends a message and I think that message is loud and clear and you don't need me to spell it out for you.
The fact that Russian soldiers are somewhat covertly in the Russian section of Crimea should tell you one thing: it's not a full-blown attack, the Russians are dipping their toes in the water to feel it out.
They're waiting. Waiting to see what Obama and the West do in response. Testing us.
Show weakness and the Russians will simply take Ukraine. That will have catastrophic consequences. We would never be able to turn a satellite country our way again, because they would know they aren't protected. It's no coincidence that the Ukrainians are asking the UK and the US for protection... and we must give it to them.
To fail to do so would strengthen Moscow and weaken Washington in a way we haven't seen since the 70's. The world does not need that. On the other hand, we must at all costs avoid backing Russia in to a corner they can't get out of, because if Putin must fight a war to maintain the status quo in terms of balance of power then I'm not so sure we can discount that possibility. We all know how catastrophic that could be for both sides.
So this should concern you. You should pay attention to this situation as it unfolds. It may all fizzle out and amount to nothing, let's hope it does, but it has the potential to change the world in ways we can't begin to comprehend.
I'm going to invoke Poe's Law and assume that this was sarcasm. Besides, a majority of Crimeans are Russian.
Besides, a majority of Crimeans are Russian.
The majority of residents of Marbella are Russian too. Should we be worried?
Marbella, Spain?? I am aware of no imminent or ongoing invasion of Spain.
Then you haven't been paying attention. Some invasions aren't achieved with tanks, but with dirty money.
Dude--really? Obviously whatever's supposedly going on in Marbella has more effect on you than it does on me, but that's a terrible reason for sidetracking this thread.
That being said, if there's something we need to know about regarding Marbella, I encourage you to start a thread on it. I'm not trolling here--if there is a legitimate problem that few people in the world are aware of, the first major step to solving that problem is to break the silence.
You may be over-analysing, and that's the enemy of satire.
...let alone convincing me...
No, in fact, you didn't. You're now trying to cover up your mistake by faking the evidence and not using the same quote you used earlier. In the earlier quote you included my House of Lords link as well as that one sentence.
Yes, you included a book review and I quoted that book review. You didn't.
We have no treaty in reference to cyber terrorism or cyber attacks? I'm pretty sure both are against international law, which we theoretically uphold.
I don't agree with your rules of rumor and innuendo and that's all you have.
That's as good an excuse as any for not producing evidence when you want to make some money, as Mr Buy-My-Book is trying to do.
The fact is, we have more proof of Anonymous carrying out attacks against our government than we do another country attacking us.
I dismissed "testimony" - point by point - of supposition and rumor, which is all you supplied.
Cyber Snake plagues Ukraine networks
An aggressive cyber weapon called Snake has infected dozens of Ukrainian computer networks including government systems in one of the most sophisticated attacks of recent years.
Also known as Ouroboros, after the serpent of Greek mythology that swallowed its own tail, experts say it is comparable in its complexity with Stuxnet, the malware that was found to have disrupted Iran’s uranium enrichment programme in 2010...
The origins of Ouroboros remain unclear, but its programmers appear to have developed it in a GMT+4 timezone – which encompasses Moscow – according to clues left in the code, parts of which also contain fragments of Russian text. It is believed to be an upgrade of the Agent.BTZ attack that penetrated US military systems in 2008.
The malware has infected networks run by the Kiev government and systemically important organisations. Lithuanian systems have also been disproportionately hit by it.
Ouroboros has been in development for nearly a decade and is too sophisticated to have been programmed by an individual or a non-state organisation, according to the applied intelligence unit at BAE Systems, which was the first to identify and analyse the malware....
“Ukraine is top of the list [of infections] and increasing,” said Dave Garfield, managing director for cyber security at BAE, who added that the instances were almost certainly “the tip of the iceberg”.
“Whoever made it really is a very professional outfit,” Mr Garfield added. “It has a very high level of sophistication. It is a complex architecture with 50 sub-modules designed to give it extreme flexibility and the ability to evolve. It has neat and novel technical features.”
“You never get beyond reasonable doubt levels of proof in this area but if you look at it in probabilistic terms – who benefits and who has the resources – then the list of suspects boils down to one,” said Nigel Inkster, until 2006 director of operations and intelligence for MI6 and now director of transnational threats at the think tank IISS...
Evidence against a quote from a book to which I have no access??? :lamoAnd was clearly referencing your claim that I had misrepresented evidence.
That is because I quoted the book itself - and demonstrated that yes, in fact, it does say what I said it did. Which is why you are now attempting a snide little ad hominem because you lack any evidence of your own.
Suggested - with no proof to back up that sentiment. Again, that's apparently your best shot and it falls far, far short of the mark.Others, more familiar with modern Russia, suggested that what was at work was far more than a passive Russian police turning a blind eye to the hooliganism of overly nationalistic youth.
You have no evidence of the Russian government's involvement in the attacks. All you have is rumors and suspicions.and we consider them to be Acts of War. However, Estonia and Russia DID have a legally binding treaty to help each other investigate these matters, a treaty which Russia ignored since she was the one directing the attacks.
Sorry, what little bit of actual evidence we have may point to Russia but it doesn't point to the Russian government.You're so far short of absolute proof that to even mention it is almost dishonest. You're not even close to swaying a civil court jury (9/12) in your favor, let alone a criminal one. Even your own source doesn't say the Russian government was involved.On the contrary among the evidence that is available open-source, the vast preponderance of evidence points in one direction. You are claiming that it's not absolute proof, which we do not require at this level.
No, I claimed the sources you gave - a book review and, later, a House of Lords document you quoted from my post - did not say that. Your dishonesty on this point is blatant.No you didn't, you claimed that the source I brought up didn't say what, in fact, it said, and then you declared a preponderance of evidence to be innuendo, as if you declaring it to be so, made it so.
(emphasis is my correct change)When more specific evidence is classified, then people such as Mr Clarke, who was the guywho tried to warn administrations of both parties that Al Qaeda was going to attack us in CONUSwho resigned from government service four years before the Estonia incident, and whom the idea of you attempting to deride is laughable, since as far as I am aware you have contributed precisely nothing to national security, are correct to apply false ambiguity to protect sources and methods.
:shrug: that is not actually true - the evidence we have is equal to both groups, both of which have attacked our networks.
From your own admission here, a few "street hackers" managed to attack the US government - unless you honestly believe Anonymous has a $$$1,000,000,000 budget and it's members all have Cray's sitting in their basements. :lol:But hey, according to you a street hacker with a $1500 laptop could have pulled that off, so, I'm sure he's probably just being full of innuendo.... :roll:
Hey, lookit that - another "source" I can't access. :roll:Meanwhile, Oh Hey, Lookit That:
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