Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the government?

[Painter]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

What an idiotic poll.
Anyone who thinks the Democrats have a hand in the shut down or that it is not 100% a Republican tantrum, was either dropped on their head as a child or lives in an anti news bubble.

 

[plutonium]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

daaaaa i dont know what planet or country you live in but the prez is not getting everything he wants how many times does he have to say it.... he is using the repubs spending numbers not his...he wanted more and he is not getting more dammmmmmmm he agreed to the repubs spending budget..the repubs want 100% what they want and boehner want let the congress vote let the citizens see the count!!!!!!!

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

That's not my point.

What concessions are the democrats asking for? None, it is purely one sided bargaining from the Republicans. You cannot call for a compromise when there is only one side trying to gain anything from this situation. A real compromise would be if the spending bill without the republicans demands went through and was passed. This won't happen though because Boehner and some congressional republicans wont put it up for a vote.

What republicans are asking for is not a compromise right now, it is a concession for absolutely nothing in return. It is overwhelmingly the Republicans fault this shutdown is still occurring right now.

You know, I love clean bills. I really do. I would accept a clean bill.

There is only one problem. NEITHER side offers "clean bills".

Awhile ago, and I can't remember exactly which one, but Democrats refused to let a defense spending bill pass without the riders that had absolutely nothing to do with the defense bill. And that is government spending on our military. Our very safety. Yet Democrats didn't care. Guess what? They got those riders and the defense bill passed due to republicans caving in. Funny how the democrats would compromise our very safety of a defense spending bill and yet when it comes to this government shutdown the democrats can't cave in on something that will ultimately not affect the very thing they are trying to protect?

 

[Freemind USMC]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I am new to the forums but this poll seems partisan from the start. How is it just about Obama?

Another option to balance this right leaning poll out should be:
4. The Republicans should vote to fund all previously approved laws, and work towards changing the ones they do not like through proper legislative channels.

The first 2 are basically, cave in to Obama. Stand up to Obama. Or I dont know what the heck I am talking about, ........or other.

Republicans offered to vote for all government operations except Obamacare, exercising the perogatives of Congress in the Constitution. In response, the Democrats in the Senate on Obama's urging shut down the entire government. The media reports it that Republicans shut down the entire government by not giving Obama what he wants.

The same is arising on the debt ceiling. Unless Republicans do everything and anything Obama wants, Senate Democrats will default the government. The media reports this as Republicans' fault because it is presented as a truism that refusing any amount of money Obama wants is per se shutting down the entire government.

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?

 

[Redress]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

What an idiotic poll.
Anyone who thinks the Democrats have a hand in the shut down or that it is not 100% a Republican tantrum, was either dropped on their head as a child or lives in an anti news bubble.

This is as simplistic as the view in the OP. While I certainly feel that republicans are mostly at fault, they certainly are not entirely so. Until both sides set out reasonable demands and concessions, both have a share in the blame. I think republicans biggest fault here is they seem to see ending the shut down a concession, and it isn't.

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

And in your scenario the "clean CR" how is that a compromise?

And the compromise that the Republicans are asking for is good for someone else, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!

You are just making an assumption with that. You do not know that for a fact, no one right now knows how this compromise will affect the American people in the future. You claiming to know so is really either just ignorance or conceitedness. This is especially true on a matter like health care reform where trends have shown far more successful required-purchase or single-payer systems seen in states like Massachusetts and countries in Europe.

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

You know, I love clean bills. I really do. I would accept a clean bill.

There is only one problem. NEITHER side offers "clean bills".

Awhile ago, and I can't remember exactly which one, but Democrats refused to let a defense spending bill pass without the riders that had absolutely nothing to do with the defense bill. And that is government spending on our military. Our very safety. Yet Democrats didn't care. Guess what? They got those riders and the defense bill passed due to republicans caving in. Funny how the democrats would compromise our very safety of a defense spending bill and yet when it comes to this government shutdown the democrats can't cave in on something that will ultimately not affect the very thing they are trying to protect?

I agree and understand, however this is an entirely different situation.

Their attempt at concessions has resulted in a government shutdown and has a debt crisis looming in our near future. What is happening is an endangering and weakening our country, not just blocking legislation just for a few riders in a bill.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Republicans offered to vote for all government operations except Obamacare, exercising the perogatives of Congress in the Constitution. In response, the Democrats in the Senate on Obama's urging shut down the entire government. The media reports it that Republicans shut down the entire government by not giving Obama what he wants.

The same is arising on the debt ceiling. Unless Republicans do everything and anything Obama wants, Senate Democrats will default the government. The media reports this as Republicans' fault because it is presented as a truism that refusing any amount of money Obama wants is per se shutting down the entire government.

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?

The Republicans did get everything they wanted in the CR but that was not enough. They had to violate the Constitution by demanding a law be repealed. That is not part of their job as "the peoples purse". They might as well have asked for Obama's resignation, what they did is equally unconstitutional. Of course you would still blame Obama for not resigning because you obviously have no respect for our form of Govt. Which begs the question "Why do we care what you think? Why don't you just leave?"

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

The Republicans did get everything they wanted in the CR but that was not enough. They had to violate the Constitution by demanding a law be repealed. That is not part of their job as "the peoples purse".

There was no demand for repeal in the CR, so what was unconstitutional?

 

[plutonium]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?


Obama and the demos agreed to the republicans amount for the cr .these are repub numbers for cr not dems .we did not get the amount we wanted... you are wrong in your statement this is a simple fact!!not a lie or spin....why do you people keep looking that main fact over?????

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I agree and understand, however this is an entirely different situation.

Their attempt at concessions has resulted in a government shutdown and has a debt crisis looming in our near future. What is happening is an endangering and weakening our country, not just blocking legislation just for a few riders in a bill.

Actually I consider it the same. Both are a danger to our country. One is economical, the other is physical safety. Both are equally important.

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Actually I consider it the same. Both are a danger to our country. One is economical, the other is physical safety. Both are equally important.

Was this defense spending bill a pressing matter that was held past last minute though? Because unless it specifically was I'm afraid it has very little parallel with this current situation.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Was this defense spending bill a pressing matter that was held past last minute though? Because unless it specifically was I'm afraid it has very little parallel with this current situation.

The Senate has had the Defense Appropriation bill sent by the House for some time but has refused to bring it up...

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

The Senate has had the Defense Appropriation bill sent by the House for some time but has refused to bring it up...

I'm unsure of whether we are talking about the same bill. The one Kal'Stang was referencing I believe he said was a while ago.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I'm unsure of whether we are talking about the same bill. The one Kal'Stang was referencing I believe he said was a while ago.

Yes, it was sent to the Senate several months ago...

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Was this defense spending bill a pressing matter that was held past last minute though? Because unless it specifically was I'm afraid it has very little parallel with this current situation.

Yes it was a pressing matter. And what is "last minute"? How much time do you consider adding a rider before a deadline is considered "Ok" or "wrong"? Otherwise can't answer your question. Though from what I seem to remember it was with in at least a month before the deadline. Posibly with in a week...not really sure. But it was close.

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Yes, it was sent to the Senate several months ago...

Ah, I'm sorry I thought you meant one was recently put through within the past few days of weeks.

I found the bill however.

H.R.2397 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2014 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

And you are right that indeed has not been passed by the senate, however I do not know if it has been introduced yet either.

Though from the fact that this bill is still sitting in the senate has shown that obviously not of dire importance to our country.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Ah, I'm sorry I thought you meant one was recently put through within the past few days of weeks.

I found the bill however.

H.R.2397 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2014 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

And you are right that indeed has not been passed by the senate, however I do not know if it has been introduced yet either.

Though from the fact that this bill is still sitting in the senate has shown that obviously not of dire importance to our country.

I would dare say the country cares but not the Senate leadership...

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Yes it was a pressing matter. And what is "last minute"? How much time do you consider adding a rider before a deadline is considered "Ok" or "wrong"? Otherwise can't answer your question. Though from what I seem to remember it was with in at least a month before the deadline. Posibly with in a week...not really sure. But it was close.

I do not condone the adding of riders, however there is a difference when you still pass a bill on time with or without a rider and not passing one at all causing countless Americans to be inconvenienced.

Apparantly it is not that pressing matter considering the bill is still sitting in the Senate
H.R.2397 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2014 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I do not condone the adding of riders, however there is a difference when you still pass a bill on time with or without a rider and not passing one at all causing countless Americans to be inconvenienced.

Apparantly it is not that pressing matter considering the bill is still sitting in the Senate
H.R.2397 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2014 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

I was talking about another one, one that has already passed. I just can't remember it.

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I would dare say the country cares but not the Senate leadership...

Caring and importance are not necessarily the same thing. Can you honestly say that this bill is of the same importance as a spending bill for the National government and our debt ceiling?

 

[OhIsee.Then]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

And who do you think is calling the shots for Senate Democrats? :doh

Senate Democrats

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Caring and importance are not necessarily the same thing. Can you honestly say that this bill is of the same importance as a spending bill for the National government and our debt ceiling?

What difference does it make at this point in time? What do you think will happen if the debt ceiling is not increased?

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I was talking about another one, one that has already passed. I just can't remember it.

I'm fairly sure this is the same one. Although it is definitely possible I don't think congress has to pass a military spending bill every few months.

 

[falcata]

Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

What difference does it make at this point in time? What do you think will happen if the debt ceiling is not increased?

What difference does it make? The difference that it makes is that we default on our debt! We no longer make our payments to countries we are borrowing money from, our country runs on borrowed money. For practically all of the foreseeable future our government will rely on borrowed money. If we default on our debt we lose an incredible amount of credibility economically. We will be able to borrow less and less over time.