Exactly right. I would go further and say that our "historical mythology" is IMPORTANT to us, that it serves an actual purpose: it helps identify us as a people, as a culture and a nation.
Strip away all the myths, and you're stripping away a lot of the glue that binds us together. Reveal, and teach the children, all the faults and failings of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, Chris Columbus, Ben Franklin, etc etc... and you deflate a lot of the positive mythos surrounding their nation and their history and culture. The ramifications of doing this are not to be underestimated. A people who feel no pride in their nation or their culture are a people without an anchor, easily blown away by the tides of history.
Yes, I realize I'm arguing in favor of puttying over some of the facts about historical figures for the sake of nationalism. It's the same reason why I say that throwing all traditions overboard simply because they're old is another way of making a society come unglued and disunified. People are held together by a certain quantity of shared values and shared mythos. If you don't believe me, ask a Marine Corps DI why they teach Marines about Chesty Puller, the halls of Montezuma and the Shores of Tripoli.
Without some degree of shared values and shared mythos, my vested intrest in caring what happens to some guy in NYC or LA becomes much more abstract and much less important to me.
Strip away all the myths, and you're stripping away a lot of the glue that binds us together.
But just about every industrialized nation was founded on the blood and sweat of either slaves, indigenous peoples, or peasants, so where could I go that would be different.
That doesn't mean we should glorify the more reprehensible aspects of our heritage, though. Acknowledge, yes. Make amends for, possibly.
If the "glue that binds us together" is lies, perhaps we have no business being "bound" in the first place.
That's really my point. And it just isn't limited to industrialized nations, either. Every nation that exists has blood on its hands; every person living owes their entire existence to the blood on their ancestors' hands. That goes beyond our merest existence, as well. Every advantage, every luxury, that we enjoy came about because somebody else suffered and died for it. That's what society is, that's how it works, and that's what happens, time and time again, throughout all of human history.
You hate Christopher Colombus, you might as well hate everyone. Every dollar that's ever passed through someone else's pockets has been blood money.
Why on Earth would we ever do that? And how would we even begin? Whole nations are dead. The only reason there's anyone left to make amends to is that we didn't kill them hard enough in the first place.
Translation: Sometimes what is best is not the entire truth, or overlooking some aspects of it.
Believe me, the more you research people, the more you find their warts. You could make the choice to become horrified by it, or you could make the choice to be horrified by it and prop something else up, or you can figure out your own way to come to terms with it. I know many professors who throw out the possibility of finding a new set of cultural heroes, or what to look for. Nevertheless, they wouldn't necessarily demand that such and such be the set criteria.
That's really my point. And it just isn't limited to industrialized nations, either. Every nation that exists has blood on its hands; every person living owes their entire existence to the blood on their ancestors' hands. That goes beyond our merest existence, as well. Every advantage, every luxury, that we enjoy came about because somebody else suffered and died for it. That's what society is, that's how it works, and that's what happens, time and time again, throughout all of human history.
You hate Christopher Colombus, you might as well hate everyone. Every dollar that's ever passed through someone else's pockets has been blood money.
Why on Earth would we ever do that? And how would we even begin? Whole nations are dead. The only reason there's anyone left to make amends to is that we didn't kill them hard enough in the first place.
Your wife cheating on you? Maybe you'd prefer living in a house thinking that your wife is faithful to you. Your kid being raped? Maybe you'd prefer not knowing whether they have or haven't?
For myself, I've still somehow retained a level of national pride, despite my ever-increasing knowledge of how many negative aspects all (and I specifically use that term) famous people, leaders, etc., have.Exactly right. I would go further and say that our "historical mythology" is IMPORTANT to us, that it serves an actual purpose: it helps identify us as a people, as a culture and a nation.
Strip away all the myths, and you're stripping away a lot of the glue that binds us together. Reveal, and teach the children, all the faults and failings of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, Chris Columbus, Ben Franklin, etc., etc... and you deflate a lot of the positive mythos surrounding their nation and their history and culture. The ramifications of doing this are not to be underestimated. A people who feel no pride in their nation or their culture are a people without an anchor, easily blown away by the tides of history.
Yes, I realize I'm arguing in favor of puttying over some of the facts about historical figures for the sake of nationalism. It's the same reason why I say that throwing all traditions overboard simply because they're old is another way of making a society come unglued and disunified. People are held together by a certain quantity of shared values and shared mythos. If you don't believe me, ask a Marine Corps DI why they teach Marines about Chesty Puller, the halls of Montezuma and the Shores of Tripoli.
Without some degree of shared values and shared mythos, my vested interest in caring what happens to some guy in NYC or LA becomes much more abstract and much less important to me.
Actually, a lot of people would probably agree with the above statements; if not openly, then secretly. They'd prefer not to know the truth about either of these things.
A lot of people are cowards, to whom maintaining the status quo is far more important than knowing the truth.
Uncomfortable truths are seldom welcome in comfortable lives.
Most of our holidays that honor people, those people were racists, greedy, and murderers. Look at Lincoln and his war that caused over 600k dead that were civilians and soldiers alike. He hated non-whites and he was a lawyer for the railroads. His family got rich off of the transcontinental railroad.
Apparently, a modern day Confederate States of America appeals to you, "patriot", complete with "slavery" of a sorts.. It WAS NOT Lincoln's war.
Moderator's Warning: |
It is interesting when some people apply today’s social standards/values to people in the past. IMO to judge someone you must look at what the social standards were for that time. So I voted that it was ok to have a Columbus Day. He was an important historical person in regards to the US.
Yep! Lets celebrate Captain Cook day instead
After all Cook discovered both Australia AND New Zealand whereas Columbus did not even really discover America.
That's really my point. And it just isn't limited to industrialized nations, either. Every nation that exists has blood on its hands; every person living owes their entire existence to the blood on their ancestors' hands. That goes beyond our merest existence, as well. Every advantage, every luxury, that we enjoy came about because somebody else suffered and died for it. That's what society is, that's how it works, and that's what happens, time and time again, throughout all of human history.
You hate Christopher Colombus, you might as well hate everyone. Every dollar that's ever passed through someone else's pockets has been blood money.
"Although history may often seem to be-like the natural sciences-an international study, transcending racial and political frontiers, its interpretation remains more profoundly national, more stubbornly local, than many of us realize or perhaps trouble to keep in mind. We may imagine there here in England we are free from the prejudices and enthusiasms of other nations. Sometimes we think that our history is the impartial narrative, and we hardly believe that we are performing an act of interpretation at all. But however much we refine and elaborate, it is not clear that we reach-more than the English view of Louis XIV. And our best biography of Napoleon is only the supreme expression of what is really the English version of the man's career. We teach and write the kind of history which is appropriate to our organization, congenial to the intellectual climate of our part of the world. We can scarcely help it if this kind of history is at the same time the one most adapted to the preservation of the existing regime."-Herbert Butterfield The Englishman and His History, 1944.
It is clear that most who have voted on this do not know what Columbus day celebrates.
And I do not mean this to insult anyone.
Columbus day is not about what happened on his 2nd trip when he went back with 17 ships and 1,300 Spanish military men, farmers, craftsmen, and clergy, in early November 1493 leading to a lot of really bad things, or even the next many years of slavery and death.
It's not even about his initial landing in 1492. It's 100% about him making the round trip which led to what came long after the slavery, death and destruction.
It is about that fact that it eventually brought to this continent the Greatest Experiment in Human History. That being our Democratic Republic based on the two most important Documents ever created by mere mortal Humans, the Declaration of Independence, and our Constitution.
History is replete with examples of explorers taking advantage of people that were seen at the time as, uncultured, or uncivilized. heathens.
Where would or whole history have been had this continent not been discovered for another 100 or even 50 years?
Fact is we are today the SUM of everything we have experienced every minute of our existence and the same is is true of the evolution of any Nation for good or bad, and I believe our Nations effect on the world and everyone on it has been for the better in the long run.
Imagine what the world would be like had Hitler not been stopped or the Expansionism of Japan, or the USSR not been held in check because of the Cold War.
Has there things we should never be proud of? Of course, but we need to look forward as we keep in mind the failures of the past and set out to only do better.
Just my view of the reality that is life.
I really need to learn to write what I have to say in one go instead of editing all the time. I added an entire paragraph after that. lol
I do that all the time - usually just spelling or grammar corrections/modifications, but sometimes...I really need to learn to write what I have to say in one go instead of editing all the time. I added an entire paragraph after that. lol
And, it slows things down a bit.The preview function works great but I don't always use it
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?