Does Anyone On The Left Actually Understand Trump Won Because of Them?

[Pyrite]

So, you've got buyer's remorse. Too bad. You knew what you were doing when you voted to reinstate him in the Oval Office. You knew trump is incompetent, corrupt, and chaotic. You knew trump panders to putin.

Yet you voted for him anyway. This is on you.

Fascinating that at lease some of those who voted for trump to be given a second term in the Oval Office now appear to want to wash their hands of accountability for having voting for him last year.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

True, but they cannot create a monopoly in a vacuum. It takes laws to force people to purchase/use from a specific group or corporation or party.

Again, you are making up shit out of whole cloth, broad and vague bullshit.

Capitalism on it's own creates diversity and prosperity. (can't wait for your impressive reply on that statement)

Capitalism on its own, unfettered, leads to monopolies.

I call bullshit. Both Dems and Reps are complicit. Both get massive amount of money from lobbyists and both act accordingly.

Again, you have zero understanding of the politics of labor and capital in the US and which political parties succeeded in attracting. You avoid the specifics because your argument cannot hold when the blank spaces are filled in.

Keep being broad and vague, you should adopt it as a namesake.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The study I linked

you did not link to it, you still have no link to it.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I just asked a simple question. Do you have any clue that without you, Trump would have never been president?

Simple question:

When did you stop beating the hell out of your wife?

 

[Schweddy]

You are arguing that genetics determine crime levels, stop lying.

This is why it's a challenge to have a conversation with a person that sees the world one way and cannot fathom that they are completely missing reality.

"Statistically, blacks commit more crime than any other minority."

You can't even see the contradictions in anything you say.

Context. What was I replying to? Do you even have a clue!?

Minority neighborhoods and police. There is a very strong correlation with impoverished black neighborhoods and crime.

You should work for CNN or write for Maddow they know how to take things out of context and make shit up.

 

[Gozaburo]

you did not link to it, you still have no link to it.

I didn't see you provide a link either, but since I'm resourceful and capable of using Google and at least somewhat interested in an honest and thoughtful dialogue, I was able to find it in like 10 seconds by using the author names you kindly provided.

Perhaps I should just be a cynical bastard.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Krivo/Peterson failed to replicate the scale of their findings across different geographies.

Oh, you want more...I got more, I'll even link to it:

This book broadens the scope of single-city, black/white studies by using national data to compare local crime patterns in five racially distinct types of neighborhoods. Peterson and Krivo meticulously demonstrate how residential segregation creates and maintains inequality in neighborhood crime rates. Based on the authors' groundbreaking National Neighborhood Crime Study (NNCS), Divergent Social Worlds provides a more complete picture of the social conditions underlying neighborhood crime patterns than has ever before been drawn.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

This is why it's a challenge to have a conversation with a person that sees the world one way and cannot fathom that they are completely missing reality.

Says the guy that thinks that debates on crime and race is not a discussion about genetics and crime.

You are trying so hard to avoid the racism in your arguments that you try to redefine the entire discussion as about "class".

Context. What was I replying to? Do you even have a clue!?

We were discussing your racist assertion that ""Statistically, blacks commit more crime than any other minority."

Does that help you?

There is a very strong correlation with impoverished black neighborhoods and crime.

There is an equally strong correlation between poverty and white crime, that is what I have been trying to get through to YOU.

You should work for CNN or write for Maddow they know how to take things out of context and make shit up.

Clean up your own racist diatribes and read a book.

 

[Gozaburo]

Oh, you want more...I got more, I'll even link to it:

Yeah I read some summary data from both their 1996 study and that book. To be fair, I could've missed something, but even in their conclusion they admit (even when using their dubiously justified and imo arbitrary criteria) that there are still significant disparities:

This synthesis of NNCS data explicitly reports that, in highly disadvantaged tracts, black neighborhoods had homicide rates approximately 1.5–2 times higher than white ones, even after controlling for structural factors like poverty and segregation. For example, average homicide rates of ~22 per 100,000 in black tracts vs. ~12 per 100,000 in white tracts under similar conditions (Table 4.2, p. 93)

And again, this is assuming that I grant they're using valid criteria to define "extremely disadvantaged communities", which is something I wouldn't grant in a debate. You can't use unexplained social phenomenon to demonstrate other unexplained social phenomenon and wave it around like it's a serious answer. I'm afraid these studies beg the question: if male joblessness, poverty, single motherhood, and a small professional class cause crime, then what variables lead to male joblessness, poverty, single motherhood, and a small professional class?

As I'm sure you're aware, this is a fiercely debated subject even outside the context of race. Some say politics & history, some say genetics, some say geography (Guns Germs & Steel), and others give silly & rather nebulous middle-of-the-river answers like "culture" or "structural disadvantages"

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I didn't see you provide a link either,

You must be blind:

Disadvantage has the same patterns of effects on crime in white and Black neighborhoods. Black urban neighborhoods tend to have higher crime rates than the typical white city neighborhood, but this is largely because there are more Black communities that are highly disadvantaged.

http://faculty.washington.edu/matsueda/courses/587/readings/Krivo Peterson 1996.pdf

EDIT:

You still have not posted a link.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

this is assuming that I grant

I could not give a shit, seriously.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

but even in their conclusion

That quote is not from the 1996 conclusion. Where did you lift it from?

 

[dncc]

I often wonder how many on the left have some level of understanding that Trump would have never been president, ever, if it hadn't been for all they and their bought and paid for media did against Trump. Anyone on the left here actually realize it was the left who elected Trump? Did you just go too far, with everything? Or, is it just an Ostrich with their heads in the sand thing?

I'm always amused by these types of posts.

Please tell us why Trump lost in 2020 if it's "because of us" he won in 2016 and 2024.

 

[dncc]

Yes, of course.

It’s all EVERYONE ELSE’s fault.

I haven't read all of the OP's posts.

Has he done the whole, "I don't even like Trump" nonsense on this thread or another one yet?

 

[Mr Person]

I often wonder how many on the left have some level of understanding that Trump would have never been president, ever, if it hadn't been for all they and their bought and paid for media did against Trump. Anyone on the left here actually realize it was the left who elected Trump? Did you just go too far, with everything? Or, is it just an Ostrich with their heads in the sand thing?

So....MAGA's have no agency?

The left forced MAGAs to have daily cage fights, winner taking the right to lick Trump's ass clean after the next bucket of KFC falls out?

 

[Schweddy]

You are trying so hard to avoid the racism in your arguments that you try to redefine the entire discussion as about "class".

I'm not redefining, trying to put it into perspective.

The US has a pseudo caste based class system based on income/environment and most are completely unaware nor consider yet "racism" becomes the main argument.

We were discussing your racist assertion that ""Statistically, blacks commit more crime than any other minority."

Does that help you?

It's not racist. It's fact - in the correct context - which you've conveniently ignored again.
If one is really interested in countering racism, everything must be put on the table including uncomfortable truths.

There is an equally strong correlation between poverty and white crime, that is what I have been trying to get through to YOU.

Between your half fleshed arguments and tourette style of replies, I missed that we are actually aligned.
Your statement here fits what I've been saying. It's a class issue, not race. As you said, whites in those same areas also commit high crime.

 

[Tangmo]

Fascinating that at lease some of those who voted for trump to be given a second term in the Oval Office now appear to want to wash their hands of accountability for having voting for him last year.

This breaches something for which the shorthand is that some certain MAGAs are trying to bail on the Generalissimo. Or at least to separate themselves from what's going on right now. If so this would be radical given the Cult Trump has established and that has not had defections or at least up to this point where the rubber is meeting the road.


But as of this thread MAGAs still can't turn against him. They're too invested and don't have an alternative voice for 'em. I'd think that Rubio is probably thinking about this but that he wants to keep his position as SecState. If this rumbling toward defecting by some MAGAs might gain in numbers for any number of reasons, and if Rubio gets going for it but pretends to be detached from it, I'd think other MAGAs with their newly distributed political lifejackets might be drawn toward it.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I'm not redefining, trying to put it into perspective.

Oh, the bullshit never ends...

The US has a pseudo caste based class system based on income/environment and most are completely unaware nor consider yet "racism" becomes the main argument.

"Most".........who?
Are you going down this insane racist argument rabbit hole that "most" Americans are "unaware" of race divisions in the US and that allows you to redefine this argument as about "class" after claiming "blacks commit more crime"?
The bullshit just get thicker and thicker.

It's not racist. It's fact - in the correct context - which you've conveniently ignored again.

Yes, the argument "blacks commit more crime" is a racist lie. We have gone over why and how, more than sufficiently.

If one is really interested in countering racism, everything must be put on the table including uncomfortable truths.

Broad, vague and meaningless....as usual.

Between your half fleshed arguments and tourette style of replies, I missed that we are actually aligned.
Your statement here fits what I've been saying. It's a class issue, not race. As you said, whites in those same areas also commit high crime.

You don't get to polish your "blacks commit more crime" turd into any sort of agreement with me, you rejected the concept of the correlation of poverty and crime independent of race from the start of this conversation.

 

[Perotista]

Don't forget Trump won in 2016.

Yes, he did. But that was before the democrats began their aggressive anti-Trump campaign. It was also an election where the earth, moon, the sun, the planets, even galaxies had to a line just right for Trump to win. Trump lost the popular vote by close to 3 million votes. Trump won the deciding states, Michigan by 0.23 of a single point, he won Pennsylvania by 0.72 of another single point and Wisconsin by 0.77. Granted, Trump won the states he needed to by 77,800 votes. Then too there was a big third-party vote in 2016, 6% of the electorate voted third party, basically against both Trump and Clinton, roughly 8 million people.

But Trump earned his victory. He out worked and out campaigned Hillary Clinton big time. Trump made 116 campaign visits, stops, rallies to Clinton’s 71. That 71 looks bigger than it was as it included fund raisers in deep Blue California and New York. In the deciding states, Wisconsin, Trump made 5 visits to none for Clinton. Michigan, it was Trump 6 visits, Hillary 1. Pennsylvania was closer, 8 visits for Trump, 5 for Hillary which would have been 4 except for an election night stop in Pittsburgh. Even in electoral vote rich Florida, Trump out did Hillary there, 13 visits to 8 for Hillary. One

One can say the candidate who worked the hardest won. Clinton should have won, but she ran a very inept campaign and was very lazy as it seems she thought she had the election in the bag and didn’t need to work at it. Hillary has no one to blame except herself. One can also say the democrats lost or Trump won because of them, especially Hillary Clinton herself in 2016. There’s much more, but an inept campaign and laziness will suffice.

 

[Athanasius68]

No, the OP is arguing that the dems are to blame for your choice, not that Don offered anything but that Dems drove you to Don, you had no option other than Don.....and that is the Dems fault. You are not responsible for your choice, the dems made you do it.

Trump offered, and continues to offer up, a lot of stuff.
Opposition to illegal immigration, rebuilding USA industrial base etc ad infinitum.

That's why he won.

 

[Schweddy]

Yes, the argument "blacks commit more crime" is a racist lie. We have gone over why and how, more than sufficiently.

Repeating it over without context and over doesn't make it accurate nor true.

You don't get to polish your "blacks commit more crime" turd into any sort of agreement with me, you rejected the concept of the correlation of poverty and crime independent of race from the start of this conversation.

Maybe what you are calling "poverty" I am calling "class" is where we misaligned? It feels like we are saying the same thing and arguing.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

One can say the candidate who worked the hardest won. Clinton should have won, but she ran a very inept campaign and was very lazy as it seems she thought she had the election in the bag and didn’t need to work at it. Hillary has no one to blame except herself. One can also say the democrats lost or Trump won because of them, especially Hillary Clinton herself in 2016. There’s much more, but an inept campaign and laziness will suffice

You are making this a tale about meritocracy, that if you just get out there and work hard, you can be potus, hello Horatio.
The election was not based on merit, the election was a popularity contest, the lying braggart bastard won because he captured the public with his audacity and bombast. A TV clown won against a life-long civil servant. That is not a comment on hard work, it is about the gullibility of half of the US voters.

 

[LouC]

Trump won because of the 77.3 million politically ignorant MAGATS who voted for him.​

Period.

Full stop.

 

[Schweddy]

You are making this a tale about meritocracy, that if you just get out there and work hard, you can be potus, hello Horatio.

Again with the tourettes.

The election was not based on merit, the election was a popularity contest, the lying braggart bastard won because he captured the public with his audacity and bombast. A TV clown won against a life-long civil servant. That is not a comment on hard work, it is about the gullibility of half of the US voters.

Read my signature. Elections are a ****ing joke in the US and a complete illusion. A true choice would not have had Harris nor Trump.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Nope they don't have a clue. If they had left him alone after Biden became president he would have more than likely faded away. Just another former president.

As it worked out he had 4 years to prepare for his
current term. And everyday the democrats are crying about it.

You don't seem to understand Trump then, because he is drawn to attention like a moth to a flame, and that's been true throughout all of his public life. There was nothing indicating he had any intention of just faded away, and that should have been evident with the endless public events he staged complaining about the election results. He started holding rallies in 2021, and then launched "Save America" shortly thereafter. Does that sound like someone who was intent on fading away?