We take in 141 legal immigrants an HOUR (1.2 million a YEAR) and that is somehow akin to Nazi Germany???Nazi Germany had a pretty impressive immigration policy which I'm sure a lot of "tough on the border" supporters would enjoy.
"Illegal" immigration is a strawman intended to keep the sheep around the world bickering amongst themselves so they don't realize the enormous fence they are willingly erecting around them. The problem with a fence is that it not only keeps people out but it also keeps people in.
Do you mind sourcing that piece of info? I'm staring at a list of 1238 appointees, and I'm not seeing an R, D, or I next to anyone's name.
Nice attempt at diversion from the simple fact that you endorse paying non-Americans less and paying Americans to NOT work.
The gist of Bod's post is directly related to the dangers of the current US immigration policies, as pointed out in the OP.60 Minutes did a story about a factory in Nebraska that 20 years ago was paying 20? dollars an hour for a floor job and the town was 97% white and now, 20 years later the same job commands a whopping 10 dollars an hour and the town is 80% or so latino. This is not unusual either. Play all the emotional games you like though...
Suggesting that a policy is somehow evil because it was implimented by an unpopular ideology is no indication of it's neccessity or effectiveness.Nazi Germany had a pretty impressive immigration policy which I'm sure a lot of "tough on the border" supporters would enjoy.
"Illegal" immigration is a strawman intended to keep the sheep around the world bickering amongst themselves so they don't realize the enormous fence they are willingly erecting around them. The problem with a fence is that it not only keeps people out but it also keeps people in.
Heavens forbid, the conservatives would never allow this....fining themselves....Gosh, when I first saw the thread title, I thought.. huh? um, you can't keep time from happening. Actually, neither party has developed a policy for effectively dealing with immigration. They were both too leary of offending the huge Latino vote in the past.
Besides, isn't the problem the illegals, not those who legally apply for immigration? Won't big fines for the companies who employ illegals get rid of a lot of the problem?
And, who is the party behind this "survey" ?A study done in 2010 found that illegal immigration costs the US each year is $113 Billion. The largest costs are $52 billion to educate children of illegal immigrants, because the parents do not pay into the tax system so the state and local level absorbs those costs. The study also broke down the cost to each state and in the states with high numbers of illegals, the amount it costs the state is more than the states deficits. So you would think that if they got ride of those illegals, the money they would save would eliminate the state deficits. Additional costs include walfare, medical treatment, medicaid, food stamps and free school lunches, prison and court costs, and also the huge cost of trying to police the issue. They need to deport every last one of them, seal our boarders, and give huge fines to anyone who hires them or rents them an apartment. I have no issue with someone who wants to come here legally, learn the language, and pay taxes but I have a huge problem with people who come here illegally. They dont pay taxes and a large percentage of them are bringing drugs with them and breaking the law.
VanceMack said:We take in 141 legal immigrants an HOUR (1.2 million a YEAR) and that is somehow akin to Nazi Germany???
Empirica said:Suggesting that a policy is somehow evil because it was implimented by an unpopular ideology is no indication of it's neccessity or effectiveness.
Suggesting that a policy is somehow evil because it was implimented by an unpopular ideology is no indication of it's neccessity or effectiveness.
The fact of the matter is that nazi germany's evil was rooted in it's socialist policies, which seeped into and corrupted all other policies.
Actually, Nazi Germany's evil was rooted in its fascist policies, but it was actually their nationalist policies that seeped into and corrupted all other policies.
I think I would tentatively agree with that statement. Their fanatical nationalism was the driving factor behind Hitler's ability to become fuhrer and subsequently rally a large percentage of the people into supporting his campaign for domination. I see many parallels between the nationalism in Germany and the United States. Heck, today is the perfect day to see the blind nationalism as so many people ignorantly "thank" any person who happens to be a veteran regardless of their actual actions.
Wikipedia: A liberal's most trusted source of information...Sure. Wikipedia has a good list of them- Judicial appointment history for United States federal courts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gotcha. So...because they are desperate we can justify paying those low wages.
Emotional games? Im stating straight up reality. That cheap brown labor (hey...BTW...10$ an hour...thats MORE than minimum wage, right) and this mindset that we are justified in paying slave labor to do the job no AMERICAN would deign themselves to do is part of the problem
How right you are Sunbelt.Wikipedia: A liberal's most trusted source of information...
I notice you used the word "conservative" to describe the majority of appointees. Anyone with any kind of political awareness knows that's bull****, as "Republicans" and "Conservatives" have practically become strangers over the years. Please use proper terminology.
I am totally confused???...Please enlighten me TNAR???I neither suggested current immigration policy is evil nor akin to Nazi Germany. However, the reactionary attacks on so-called “illegal” immigrants are both eerily reminiscent of Nazi Germany and morally reprehensible. Fundamentally, what is the difference between forcing a person to relocate versus prohibiting them from relocating?
The issue is not that immigrants move into this country “illegally” as so many commonly suggest. The real issue is as Empirica pointed out, “when a large number of people with low standards enter into the equation, the standards for everyone are lowered due to the efficient nature of capitalism which drives all successful economies.” I will clarify that “low standards” simply means lower wages. There are certainly people who are simply hostile to immigrants and there are many people who are ignorant of economics and are still under the spell of mercantilism, but the truth is that people move to where they are able to attain a better life. This is why most people are hostile to “illegal” immigration more than any other. They just want to keep their inflated wages. Essentially the U.S. government is attempting to act as a national union.
It's obvious that you've been listening to those politians who will say anything to franchise 12+ million new voters who are easily bought with taxpayer dollars.Except you are ignoring other simple facts.
1) The less American dollars those immigrants earn are worth more than what they can earn in their home country.
2) Those jobs don't pay at the education level of most Americans. Rather, most Americans need wages that will provide them with livable wages and will also pay off the debts they incur for their college or university education. The work that migrant workers do are not at this level.
We cant control wages abroad and should focus our efforts on keeping standards high here at home by refusing citizenship to those who drag them down.America currently faces a jobs crisis that is most brought on by off-shoring of American jobs to wage-slavers abroad and in-sourcing wage-slavers with work visas.
Obviously, international corporate consortiums are at fault.
In addition to enforcing our good immigration laws, we also need to take appropriate action to bring back off-shored and in-sourced jobs.
This can be accomplished with major tax penalties to off-shorers and in-sourcers, tax breaks for hiring Americans and legal immigrants, and major tax incentives for American-soil start-up companies replacing off-shored divisions.
Another good tool in combination is the "dreaded" tariff.
American based companies that operate internationally need to be held to the good behavior ethic "if you make it abroad, you sell it abroad" -- that's always been a good ethical rule for us.
The problems we suffer today began during the Reagan administration's corporate socialist movement and their mantra of "what's good for corporate America is good for Americans". Clearly that was a false belief.
I know that President Obama's last state of the union address included much about making America competitive in the global economy by creating in our own people "the best and the brightest" competitors we can be.
But this is absolute foolishness -- we can't compete with wage-slave labor abroad no matter how good and bright we are.
Thus I don't see the need or the value of including a "best and brightest and healthiest" policy in our immigration laws.
I'm concerned about regular Americans being punished for being regular Americans if we advocate becoming a land of neurotically competitive Ferengi.
And that kind of foolish, futile behavior forced upon our school children will likely make many of them physically ill.
Im inclined to agree with this one for the most part.History has shown that we're good enough as we are, and that our problems have usually been internally caused by bad decisions made by Washington to serve the small special interests with all the money.
Empirica said:Exactly how do you equate demanding that the federal government enforce US immigration laws to "attacks" on illegal aliens?
Empirica said:The reason for exporting american jobs is directly related to the ever increasing US taxes and regulations that make it impossible for American Industry to be competitive in a global economy.
Empirica said:Government is the problem ... The corporations could be our saviors if government would get out of their way and let them do what they do best.
Empirica said:Exactly how do you equate demanding that the federal government enforce US immigration laws to "attacks" on illegal aliens?
We already refuse citizenship to criminal elements.We cant control wages abroad and should focus our efforts on keeping standards high here at home by refusing citizenship to those who drag them down.
An American worker being paid $12.00/hour vs. a worker in a third world country being paid $.05/hour.The reason for exporting american jobs is directly related to the ever increasing US taxes and regulations that make it impossible for American Industry to be competitive in a global economy. Sink or swim. They have been given no other option.
You say that repeatedly, thus it's no wonder I hear the typical fiscal conservative dualism .. shared also by most libertarians: corporations are angels .. the government is the devil.Corporations are not the problem. Government is the problem
The size of government is not the issue with government.and the more it grows the bigger the problem gets.
Corporations will never be our saviors.The corporations could be our saviors if government would get out of their way and let them do what they do best. Create wealth and jobs.
And, they'd be wrong.The left will tell you to ignore and deny the history of what made America the wealtiest most powerful nation on earth while promoting class warfare by telling you the rich are evil and greedy. Tactics taken directly from the writings of Karl Marx.
Neither is true .. and neither is the opposite true as well.Capitalism is your friend...Government is your enemy.
Yes, but you are inclined to so agree because you've filtered it through your ideology, thus imagining I just put down "the big bad government" when I didn't.Im inclined to agree with this one for the most part.
Ontologuy said:Outside of that, who are these legal immigrants that are dragging down standards here at home? Also, how are they dragging standards down?
Ontologuy said:Taxation issues are very minor compared to the wage-slave issue.
Ontologuy said:Sometimes I find that corporations are wrong and need to change and sometimes I find that government is wrong and needs to change and sometimes both.
Ontologuy said:The size of government is not the issue with government. The substance of government is.
Ontologuy said:There is no constitutional mandate for corporations to promote the general welfare and provide for the common defense.
Ontologuy said:It's not a good thing for the great majority of Americans.
Ontologuy said:It's times like this I feel so glad I don't suffer from pre-conceived ideology -- I think so much clearer as a result.
Ontologuy said:It's not about our government; it's about the wingnuts left and right we've been forced to elect to run our government.
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