Does a Trump win save democracy?

[You.]

I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor. Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Trump caused the problem of poor voter faith among MAGA and the same people try to act like he is the answer as well.

The real answer is just accepting when people don't want what you are selling and adapting to changing public priorities and updating your political platform accordingly to get a bigger tent.

in short "physician, heal thyself!"

 

[Helix]

no

 

[Helix]

There are two mistakes in this OP that make me question it.

 

[You.]

There are two mistakes in this OP that make me question it.

Edumacate me…

 

[Along Came Jones]

Contrary to widespread fearmongering, there is no threat to our democracy. What a Trump election win will likely evoke is a fresh round of asserting an imperial presidency which will be thwarted by the legislative and judicial branches, as well as undermining by the nongovernmental institutions upon which our democracy relies.

 

[You.]

Trump caused the problem of poor voter faith among MAGA

Truth

and the same people try to act like he is the answer as well

Not sure if you’re talking about me, but I’m not saying the person is the solution. I’m wondering if a Trump win forces people who believe the election was rigged to question that stance

 

[You.]

no

Solid argument

My post is actually about faith in voting and really has little to do with Trump

 

[Quag]

Truth

Not sure if you’re talking about me, but I’m not saying the person is the solution. I’m wondering if a Trump win forces people who believe the election was rigged to question that stance

Nope
Like their God/emperor they will claim any election lost as rigged but accept any they win as legitimate.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Truth

Not sure if you’re talking about me, but I’m not saying the person is the solution. I’m wondering if a Trump win forces people who believe the election was rigged to question that stance

If you self identify in that group, then the response would apply to you. If you do not, then it probably doesn't.

In terms of questioning their stance, I don't see a lot of evidence that many in the MAGA crowd focus on logical consistency in their beliefs. It tends to be more emotion based with a desire to rage at whatever the effigy of the day is (and an addiction to the neurochemical rewards associated with feeling "righteous anger"). So, it's likely that this will not cause them to question their stance.

 

[Loulit01]

No.

 

[You.]

they will claim any election lost as rigged but accept any they win as legitimate.

I think you won the thread with this sentence.

I believe the same thing, but wonder if there’s a few people on the margins that might be swayed if he won

 

[Helix]

Edumacate me…

Push button and have faith in the system after that.

It would be "Push the button."

Election deniers belief that the system is rigged

Believe.

Other than that, it's pretty good other than the propaganda angle. Do you actually like democracy? I do, but sadly, I feel like many don't.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

I agree. With one caveat, we are not a Democracy. At practically every level, whether it be National, State, or Local (with a few exceptions in that last category) we are factually a Republic. Meaning we are typically governed by a class of officials that in our case are a mix of elected, and in many cases (when dealing with the appointees/employees of the Administrative State) by non-elected officials.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor.

In the case of our elected "representatives" at various levels, you are correct.

Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Correct again. Except the problem is not just with pushing a button, albeit there have been issues with that from time to time. The big problem has to do with switching to a largely mass-mailed absentee balloting. This is provably the least secure method of voting for many reasons, including but not limited to:

1. Buying votes.
2. Others filling out/pressuring votes of the elderly, indigent, etc.
3. Stealing/destroying ballots
4. People who have moved to new jurisdictions still voting in either their old, or both old and new locales.
5. Ballots not being delivered
6. More recently, efforts seeking to allow non-citizen migrants the right to vote.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

The only way Biden can win this election is by hook or crook. The lawfare efforts in Democrat controlled areas (NYC, D.C., Atlanta, etc.) are a prime example.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?

I don't think anyone believes this. The Regressive-Left (I can't use the term Progressive because IMO they are the group seeking to "destroy democracy") is openly seeking to change the USA into a One-Party Socialist State. That would only allow for the same kind of "elections" that occur in China, N. Korea, Venezuela, and used to occur in the old Soviet Union.

The rest of us believe that Trump will win because more and more people are coming to realize the above.

 

[You.]

Between voice to translate, my fat, thumbs and the fact that this is an Internet form which automatically puts it into the column of things that I can’t take to seriously, I probably won’t be proofreading and having an editor review my posts . I’m extremely likely to continue to have typographical and grammatical errors. Apologies in advance.

Other than that, it's pretty good other than the propaganda angle.

I would love you to explain more the propaganda angle.

Do you actually like democracy?

Yes! I still feel like it’s something you have to have faith in in order for it to work and it can’t help our country that a huge portion of people don’t have faith in it. It’ll be decades before the deniers all dead and gone so I think it’s an important issue

 

[Irredentist]

I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor. Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?

You can't save democracy by electing someone who clearly has no respect for anything or anyone other than his own personal gain. Trump is the worst sort of human to hold that kind of power. He is fundamentally corrupt, and he would happily sacrifice democracy if there was a profit in it for him.

 

[You.]

You can't save democracy by electing someone who clearly has no respect for anything or anyone other than his own personal gain. Trump is the worst sort of human to hold that kind of power. He is fundamentally corrupt, and he would happily sacrifice democracy if there was a profit in it for him.

The point I think is interesting to think about is that the election of the worst person might help restore faith in the system.

 

[samiam5211]

If Trump wins it will be a bloodbath.

 

[You.]

If Trump wins it will be a bloodbath.

This is why I think this forum needs a and not just a like button! I literally lol’ed

 

[Irredentist]

The point I think is interesting to think about is that the election of the worst person might help restore faith in the system.

For who? The people who have already decided that democracy is less important than getting the guy they want in power?

 

[redbeer]

I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor. Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?

Many democrats still believe Trump is an illegitimate president and they will object to Trump's win in November. The left went violent in Trump's first win, then after all the propaganda which has been fed into their minds, it will be much worse. As in 2016, it will be an earthshaking experience for them...."how is this possible?" will ring in their ears over and over, driving them crazy.

The democrats were oftentimes just a few years ago, talking about the problems we have in our voting system, but instead of tackling the issue, they used the problems to help them, so here we are with as you say, "a faith-based endeavor"......honestly, I don't like it, for there is no way of knowing if my vote was tabulated correctly.

I tap a screen who I choose, prints me a ticket, take the ticket over to the tabulator machine, place it in machine and that's it. It doesn't print me a receipt or anything. Walk away hoping my vote tabulated with my intent.

Both the left and right know all about the problems with the election software, voting systems, and tabulating equipment, yet apparently don't care.

 

[You.]

For who? The people who have already decided that democracy is less important than getting the guy they want in power?

Like I said in the OP. I think the lack of faith in the system is more dangerous for democracy than one term by one bad person.

 

[Individual]

As long as we hold elections, we're no less a democracy.

 

[Perotista]

I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor. Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?

According to Gallup 63% of all Americans have confidence in the accuracy of our election system which breaks down by party to 85% of democrats having confidence in the accuracy, only 40% of Republicans, 67% of independents. Confidence in the accuracy of our election system has eroded slightly since 2004 when 70% of all Americans expressed confidence in the accuracy of our election system. Having doubt for roughly 30% of all Americans in the accuracy of our election system is nothing new. Although we think it is today due to Trump spouting that the 2020 election was stolen and rigged.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/404675/confidence-election-integrity-hides-deep-partisan-divide.aspx

As for saving democracy, in my opinion, neither Trump nor Biden being elected as the next president has anything to do with saving democracy. Our electoral system is a two major party monopoly just like the old USSR and apparently today’s Russia has a one-party system or monopoly. The two major parties do all they can to retain their monopoly by denying the voters a third choice or even ballot access. As such, I believe we’re not a true democracy as other modern democracies are. All this talk about saving democracy is nothing more than preserving the two major party monopoly.

 

[Irredentist]

Like I said in the OP. I think the lack of faith in the system is more dangerous for democracy than one term by one bad person.

Actually it would be two terms by a bad person, because this would be his second. Regardless, you don't actually have any proof that electing him would restore anyone's faith in democracy.