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Do you think Roe V Wade should be overturned?

Do you think Roe V wade should be overturned?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 58.5%
  • No

    Votes: 17 41.5%

  • Total voters
    41

Navy Pride

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Well it looks like we will soon be getting a challenge to Roe V Wade.......Your comments please:
 

Kandahar

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Yes, let the states decide the issue for themselves. Nowhere in the Constitution can a right to an abortion be reasonably interpreted.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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I'm pretty outspoken about being pro-choice, and I see the logic behind the concept of a Constitutional right to privacy, but I think that Roe v. Wade was an example of judicial overreaching.

This is a matter to be decided by the Legislature, not the courts.

On the other hand, I think even with a fresh challenge, it will not be overturned. The composition of the Court has not changed enough since 1974, and Roe v. Wade has more than thirty years of established precedent behind it.

My guess is that it'll be 6-3 in favor of upholding the ruling.
 

talloulou

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In my opinion with condoms, birth control, and the morning after the pill there should be no need for surgical abortions. If you were irresponsible enough to miss all your chances at not procreating then you should just suffer the consequences, have the child, and put it up for adoption so it can be a gift to one of the many infertile couples who can't afford to buy a baby from another country. Obviously this wouldn't apply to women whose lives would be put in danger by carrying a child full term however I DO NOT consider the fact that a woman doesn't want a baby to be mental health endagerment of her life.
 

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I bet my answer will not surprise anyone...........but yes I do.

The Supreme Court cited viability as the point where the state has a compelling interest in the welfare of the unborn. (ironically the wording of the decision allowed abortion after viability anyway). However in the 1989 Webster v Reproductive Health Services decision, the SC began to dismantle the illogical conclusions of Roe v Wade when it said, "We do not see why the States interest in protecting human life should come into existence ONLY AT THE POINT OF VIABILITY."

As Justice Harry Blackmum stated, "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. In fact this question is not difficult at all, as the many scientists quoted under argument I attest. But no matter what answer we come to, isn't the question of whether living children are being killed by abortion precisely the question we must resolve?"

There were abortions in this country before abortion was made legal. But after it was legal the numbers of woman getting abortion skyrocketed.

"There are now 15 times more abortions annually in this country than were prior to Roe. Those laws that once restrained abortion now encourage it.a'

Bernard Nathanson, Aborting America (New York:Doubleday, 1979, 40)

In a survey of woman who had abortions, 72% said they would definetly not had sought an abortion if doing so were illegal."

David C. REardon, Aborted Woman:Silence No More (Westchester, Ill.:Crossway Books, 1987),333.


The prochoice movement from the beginning has lied including the "Roe" of Roe v Wade and the "Doe" of Doe v Bolton.

Norma Mc Corvey (Jane Roe of the court case) acknowledges that she lied when she claimed to have been raped. Because the case took a lot of time, she never did get that abortion. She has said that for years she had lived in shame. Because of this she got involved with drugs, lesbianism and had come close to suicide. She said that she was lied to in order to be made the center of a landmark case. Then the truth came Mary Doe (Sandra Cano) who said she never once sought an abortion. She had been lied to by a pro-abortion attorney who used her for their ends without her understanding what they were doing. Her doctor and attorney sued to get her an abortion without ever consulting her and when she found out she believed she was going to be forced to have the abortion she fled.

The abortion issue should be reevaluated by our courts because the body count keeps rising. No other issue has claimed as many lives. Truth doesn't kill, abortion does and its high time we do something about it.
 

zymurgy

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Absolutely!

This is a state rights issue all the way. America is far too polarized when the federal goverment decides everything.

Personally, I view this as a self defense issue. And like true self-defense, each state decided what level is appropriate when it comes to ending another living persons life.
 

Deegan

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I can't believe I am saying this, but NO, I don't think we should revisit this ruling. It is indeed decided law, right or wrong, it would be irresponsible to pull the rug out from millions of women after 30 years of doing it this way! I support states rights, but womens rights trump that of the state, and this is why it was correct that the SCOTUS take this in to their competent hands, and end this debate once and for all. As I have said time and again, it's now time to decide when this is not a womens right, and I think after four months you have given up the right to decide, and the state should step in.
 

talloulou

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Deegan said:
I can't believe I am saying this, but NO, I don't think we should revisit this ruling. It is indeed decided law, right or wrong, it would be irresponsible to pull the rug out from millions of women after 30 years of doing it this way!

How long was slavery allowed, how long were women considered property with no voting rights? Just because a law has been around for awhile doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.
 

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talloulou said:
How long was slavery allowed, how long were women considered property with no voting rights? Just because a law has been around for awhile doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.

These strawmen have nothing to do with the obviously important decision women have made to control their bodies! Some choose to have their children, some choose to abort, this is an issue we have to accept, like it or not. I can only imagine what it must be like to make that choice, either way, but I can not in good conscience make that decision for them, nor has it worked in the past. These are logical decisions we have come to accept, we can't force women to do with their bodies, what they refuse to do, it is slavery, and yes, I thought we took care of that issue long ago!
 

zymurgy

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Deegan said:
I can't believe I am saying this, but NO, I don't think we should revisit this ruling. It is indeed decided law, right or wrong, it would be irresponsible to pull the rug out from millions of women after 30 years of doing it this way! I support states rights, but womens rights trump that of the state, and this is why it was correct that the SCOTUS take this in to their competent hands, and end this debate once and for all. As I have said time and again, it's now time to decide when this is not a womens right, and I think after four months you have given up the right to decide, and the state should step in.

1) "State rights" are misleading. Only individuals have "rights". We say State Rights because when the federal goverment was formed we listed their powers and said everything not listed was reserved for the people or the state.

2) human rights trumps all. Women shouldn't have special rights because they are women.

3) Status quo is the worst reason I have ever witnessed.
 

talloulou

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Deegan said:
These strawmen have nothing to do with the obviously important decision women have made to control their bodies! Some choose to have their children, some choose to abort, this is an issue we have to accept, like it or not. I can only imagine what it must be like to make that choice, either way, but I can not in good conscience make that decision for them, nor has it worked in the past. These are logical decisions we have come to accept, we can't force women to do with their bodies, what they refuse to do, it is slavery, and yes, I thought we took care of that issue long ago!

Well I disagree that forcing a woman to face up to the consequences of her pregnancy is slavery. If she didn't deal with it with condoms, birth control, or the morning after pill then she is irresponsible and at some point you must face the music, you made the bed you lie in it, ect...We expect the same from men and I don't see why women should be different.

And as far as you considering my slavery argument as a strawman. Please! A sham is an argument that is easily refutable. It is not easily refuted that slavery was allowed for a long period of time and then outlawed. It IS however EASY to refute the idea that a woman forced to carry a child to term is a slave! Your argument is the shame! If she is a slave who owns her? Whose property is she? Ridiculous.
 
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Deegan

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zymurgy said:
1) "State rights" are misleading. Only individuals have "rights". We say State Rights because when the federal goverment was formed we listed their powers and said everything not listed was reserved for the people or the state.

2) human rights trumps all. Women shouldn't have special rights because they are women.

3) Status quo is the worst reason I have ever witnessed.

Women should be afforded special rights, as they possess a special gift, life! So to suggest we can deal with their situation in the same way do a mans, is to not fully understand their special situation. Men have used this against women for centuries, here, I spat my seed, now I'll know where you are for at least 9 months, then after, you'll need me even more. This is just not going to work in our free society, nor should it, these rights should be protected, and I'll let God sort it out in the end.
 

zymurgy

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Deegan said:
Women should be afforded special rights, as they possess a special gift, life! So to suggest we can deal with their situation in the same way do a mans, is to not fully understand their special situation. Men have used this against women for centuries, here, I spat my seed, now I'll know where you are for at least 9 months, then after, you'll need me even more. This is just not going to work in our free society, nor should it, these rights should be protected, and I'll let God sort it out in the end.

We can definitely deal with this in the same way as we do with men who end somebody elses life. All human life is sacred, including the unborn. You completely ignore the other life that also has rights.
 

Deegan

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zymurgy said:
We can definitely deal with this in the same way as we do with men who end somebody elses life. All human life is sacred, including the unborn. You completely ignore the other life that also has rights.

I certainly do not, I leave that to the Lord, I don't pretend to be God, nor should I play him on the stage we call life. I respect the life I see before me, that is the woman who must decide what is best for her, I can not damn her, only to save this other life, I won't do that, and neither should our laws!
 

zymurgy

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Deegan said:
I certainly do not, I leave that to the Lord, I don't pretend to be God, nor should I play him on the stage we call life. I respect the life I see before me, that is the woman who must decide what is best for her, I can not damn her, only to save this other life, I won't do that, and neither should our laws!

This is completely illogical. Why have any laws at all?

Murder is fine. We'll just leave it with the lord.
 

Navy Pride

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I hear Liberals and my conservative friend Deegan all speaking up for the mother but what about the innocent baby in the womb? Who speaks for him and her?
 

talloulou

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Deegan said:
Women should be afforded special rights, as they possess a special gift, life! So to suggest we can deal with their situation in the same way do a mans, is to not fully understand their special situation. Men have used this against women for centuries, here, I spat my seed, now I'll know where you are for at least 9 months, then after, you'll need me even more. This is just not going to work in our free society, nor should it, these rights should be protected, and I'll let God sort it out in the end.

To say women will not have a choice in procreating is ridiculous. If they are responsible and rational they will realize they have condoms, birth control, and even the morning after pill. They don't need surgical abortions to protect their reproductive rights. They need self control, responsibility, and some common sense....the same as men.

And the whole slavery thing is insulting and makes light of the issue of slavery and what it actually means to be a slave. I'm surprised more people aren't offended by that analogy. I may sometimes feel like a slave but to argue literally that I am would be not only silly but incredibly ignorant. What if a woman feels like a slave when the kids are toddlers....can she kill em. Nope!

And your other arguments don't make sense either. What if a man "spats his seed" as you say, hangs around for a bit, and then takes off when the child is 5. The women in that situation may be just as stuck and they don't have the right to kill their child.

And what makes you think your God would have no problems with you standing by and allowing someone to kill someone else?
 
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Deegan

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zymurgy said:
This is completely illogical. Why have any laws at all?

Murder is fine. We'll just leave it with the lord.

We sacrifice everyday, we send our boys to their deaths everyday in Iraq, we say, "you die for my freedoms, that's your mission"! I am willing to sacrifice that young life to save the woman, and sure not all are in this most serious of positions, but there are just too many millions to make this broad assumption that all are just irresponsible tramps that could not be bothered to take their medicine, or use a form of contraception. We have laws for murder that are reasonable, this one is obviously not reasonable, and neither is your argument comparing the two.
 

zymurgy

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Deegan said:
Women should be afforded special rights, as they possess a special gift, life!

One more thing; you just described a special responsibility, not a special right.
 

Deegan

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Navy Pride said:
I hear Liberals and my conservative friend Deegan all speaking up for the mother but what about the innocent baby in the womb? Who speaks for him and her?

God does my friend, God does!
 

zymurgy

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Deegan said:
We sacrifice everyday, we send our boys to their deaths everyday in Iraq, we say, "you die for my freedoms, that's your mission"! I am willing to sacrifice that young life to save the woman, and sure not all are in this most serious of positions, but there are just too many millions to make this broad assumption that all are just irresponsible tramps that could not be bothered to take their medicine, or use a form of contraception. We have laws for murder that are reasonable, this one is obviously not reasonable, and neither is your argument comparing the two.

Sorry but this is a horrible analogy. Even in times of conscription (and Iraq isn't one of them) the draftee could elect to not serve.

What choice does the dead fetus have?
 

Deegan

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zymurgy said:
Sorry but this is a horrible analogy. Even in times of conscription (and Iraq isn't one of them) the draftee could elect to not serve.

What choice does the dead fetus have?


Oh really, ever heard of Vietnam, you go fight, or you go to jail, not much of a choice for some. It's a fine analogy, you just don't like it because it reminds you of the lack of control that would certainly drive anyone insane, try being a pregnant woman!
 
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talloulou

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Deegan said:
We sacrifice everyday, we send our boys to their deaths everyday in Iraq, we say, "you die for my freedoms, that's your mission"! I am willing to sacrifice that young life to save the woman, and sure not all are in this most serious of positions, but there are just too many millions to make this broad assumption that all are just irresponsible tramps that could not be bothered to take their medicine, or use a form of contraception. We have laws for murder that are reasonable, this one is obviously not reasonable, and neither is your argument comparing the two.

Were any of the men fighting in Iraq drafted? If they were you might have an argument. But choosing to put yourself at risk to save your country is very different from being involuntarily slaughtered.

Furthermore talk about strawman......!!!!
 

zymurgy

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Deegan said:
Oh really, ever heard of Vietnam, you go fight, or you go to jail, not much of a choice for some. It's a fine analogy, you just like it because it reminds you of the lack of control that would certainly drive anyone insane, try being a pregnant woman!

I agree that it isn't much of a choice, but it is still a choice.

you still haven't answered my question however. Why have any laws at all if god is going to be the final judge?
 

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zymurgy said:
I agree that it isn't much of a choice, but it is still a choice.

you still haven't answered my question however. Why have any laws at all if god is going to be the final judge?

That's easy, because not everyone believes in a God, so we must have mans law. I live by Gods law, but I also understand mans, and I can not ask a woman to do something I myself would not do, it's called being reasonable, being compassionate, being considerate. Trust me, this is the last thing I want to defend, but I am a reluctant warrior in this fight, my heart tells me to fight for these rights. I too may have to answer for these beliefs one day, I am ready for that day.
 
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