Do you think Roe V Wade should be overturned?

[Deegan]

Well I guess I got the wrong impression about your conservatism...I thought your were a Social Conservative but I guess at best you are a moderate on this issue....

I am glad we got that straightened out........

I still dig your avatar, does that help? :lol:

 

[zymurgy]

Ever heard of emotions? Ever heard of stress? Ever heard of stretch marks for cris sakes? You have no idea what you are talking about, and neither to I, but I admit that fact, and you have the nerve to talk about naivety!:roll:

Ever heard of personal responsibility?

 

[Kandahar]

This is the point my friend, you are willing to allow womens rights to be squashed just because a precious constitutional law was infringed upon, and nothing about the rights of women being infringed upon. Are you some kind of computer program, or do you have a heart, I believe the SCOTUS used their heart in making this judgment, and I agree with them, and damn that yellowed old piece of paper drawn up by slave owners and wife beaters!

Emotion is all we have sometimes, just as when we FINALLY realized that we should not enslave Africans, or anyone for that matter. Law is not always black and white, and emotions have carried the day in more then a few important cases, just as it did in this decision.

Constitution hugger, am I? :rofl

Since you seem to acknowledge that your support for Roe v Wade is based entirely on emotion and has absolutely no constitutional basis whatsoever, would it be safe to say that we should just get rid of the Constitution entirely and adopt whatever laws you (or the SCOTUS) think would be in our best interests?

After all, who needs a Constitution when it doesn't support our views? :roll:

 

[Deegan]

Constitution hugger, am I? :rofl

Since you seem to acknowledge that your support for Roe v Wade is based entirely on emotion and has absolutely no constitutional basis whatsoever, would it be safe to say that we should just get rid of the Constitution entirely and adopt whatever laws you (or the SCOTUS) think would be in our best interests?

After all, who needs a Constitution when it doesn't support our views? :roll:

Oh come now sir, I would never say that, or even think it, I love our constitution. I may have issues with the men who wrote this fine document, but the words speak for themselves, it's just that the language changes with time, so should we. I just think the federal laws should trump state laws on this issue, it's for the good of the country in my opinion, and especially for the women of this country, my only concern where this is concerned. I also never said it was based solely on emotion, just that emotions are important, and only an unfeeling bastard could not allow those emotions to at least give him/her pause.

 

[Deegan]

Ever heard of personal responsibility?

I have heard the word bandied around a bit, but I still have to ask, what the hell do you know about this as it pertains to women, and their own personal choice?:roll:

 

[Alex]

Absolutely!

This is a state rights issue all the way. America is far too polarized when the federal goverment decides everything.

Personally, I view this as a self defense issue. And like true self-defense, each state decided what level is appropriate when it comes to ending another living persons life.

States rights do not trump individual rights. Privacy is implied in the Constitution and there is not much that is more private for a woman then deciding on reproduction. Anti-abortion people are nothing more than busybodies who have nothing better to do then intrude on other people's lives.

I actually hope that Roe v Wade does get overturned. It will be the end of the Conservative movement as we know it. Our televisions will be flooded with reports of women destroying their health and even dying from back-alley abortions. Taxes will have to be raised to care for all these unwanted children and that goes against a main platform of Conservatives. People will naturally look to someone to blame for all this and that blame will fall on the people responsible-- Conservatives.

Conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[talloulou]

I do have some reservations about rape and incest but someone that gets pregnant that way could always go to a state that allows them.......

Someone who gets raped should go to the hospital where they can get the morning after pill and be checked for other problems. Or planned parenthood or their own physician. It's really a non-issue as it can and should be handled before the need for a surgical abortion ever arises.

 

[talloulou]

I actually hope that Roe v Wade does get overturned. It will be the end of the Conservative movement as we know it. Our televisions will be flooded with reports of women destroying their health and even dying from back-alley abortions. Taxes will have to be raised to care for all these unwanted children and that goes against a main platform of Conservatives. People will naturally look to someone to blame for all this and that blame will fall on the people responsible-- Conservatives.

Conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot.

You make women out to be a hell of alot more irresponsible than they are. And if women are forced to become more responsible and think a little more....how is that a bad thing?

 

[zymurgy]

I have heard the word bandied around a bit, but I still have to ask, what the hell do you know about this as it regards to women, and their own personal choice?:roll:

This isn't an issue that effects women and women along. Another life is involved, actually three. The women, the man, and the baby.

I certainly see similarities in having to force a women to carry a child to term and forcing a man to pay for a baby for 18 years. In both cases they could of avoided this completely. Their own actions brought it on. You seem to beleive women have a monopoly on stress and despair when it comes to unwanted pregnancies and it isn't so. All parties will suffer.

Anyway. I suspect we have ran the gamut on what can be said on this subject.. You seem to be so caught up in protecting the rights of these poor defenseless women that you could give a rat's *** about the poor defenseless child and I'm so caught up on protecting the child that I could give a rats *** about the man and women who created him/her.

Right now you win. All states must follow a universal rule, even when a given state opposes it by a wide margin. Congrats.

 

[Navy Pride]

I still dig your avatar, does that help? :lol:

You dig my avatar but you don't dig his position on the abortion issue

 

[Deegan]

This isn't an issue that effects women and women along. Another life is involved, actually three. The women, the man, and the baby.

I certainly see similarities in having to force a women to carry a child to term and forcing a man to pay for a baby for 18 years. In both cases they could of avoided this completely. Their own actions brought it on. You seem to beleive women have a monopoly on stress and despair when it comes to unwanted pregnancies and it isn't so. All parties will suffer.

Anyway. I suspect we have ran the gamut on what can be said on this subject.. You seem to be so caught up in protecting the rights of these poor defenseless women that you could give a rat's *** about the poor defenseless child and I'm so caught up on protecting the child that I could give a rats *** about the man and women who created him/her.

Right now you win. All states must follow a universal rule, even when a given state opposes it by a wide margin. Congrats.

I don't feel I have "won" anything sir, I think we all lose when a precious life is taken, a future doctor, scientist, lawyer, politician(well, maybe that wouldn't be so awful after all) is lost forever. I just think that you can't ask a woman to do something you are not prepared to do, or can not do for that matter, it's just not American. I am for fighting the battles I can win, and I think we can win the battle to give women a time frame for which to get this done, this is reasonable in my opinion.

 

[zymurgy]

States rights do not trump individual rights. Privacy is implied in the Constitution and there is not much that is more private for a woman then deciding on reproduction. Anti-abortion people are nothing more than busybodies who have nothing better to do then intrude on other people's lives.

I actually hope that Roe v Wade does get overturned. It will be the end of the Conservative movement as we know it. Our televisions will be flooded with reports of women destroying their health and even dying from back-alley abortions. Taxes will have to be raised to care for all these unwanted children and that goes against a main platform of Conservatives. People will naturally look to someone to blame for all this and that blame will fall on the people responsible-- Conservatives.

Conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot.

State rights and individual rights are one in the same. Every power not explicitly given to the federal goverment is reserved for the state or the people.

As for the conservative movement, it is already dead. Today's republicans are big goverment and big business. They give lip service to social conservatism to win elections.

Don't be to excited. Your liberal movement will die as well. Your entitelement programs and fiat money suplly is slowly but surely crushing our country. Eventually the real conservative movement will be restored to rescue you socialists from yourselves.

 

[Deegan]

You dig my avatar but you don't dig his position on the abortion issue

Not necessarily, I don't recall Reagan trying to reverse RoeVWade, but I think we both would agree we don't like the fact that abortion is so prevalent, but also know there is little we can do when a womans rights are at stake.

 

[Alex]

You make women out to be a hell of alot more irresponsible than they are. And if women are forced to become more responsible and think a little more....how is that a bad thing?

Who said it is a bad thing? It is unrealistic. The fact is that people make mistakes and pregnancy can be a mistake. It is the right of the woman to decide if she wants motherhood, no one elses. Anti-abortionists should get some business of their own and mind it.

 

[Deegan]

Who said it is a bad thing? It is unrealistic. The fact is that people make mistakes and pregnancy can be a mistake. It is the right of the woman to decide if she wants motherhood, no one elses. Anti-abortionists should get some business of their own and mind it.

Or they could fight a reasonable battle, which is the length of time for which you have to make this choice!

 

[Navy Pride]

I don't feel I have "won" anything sir, I think we all lose when a precious life is taken, a future doctor, scientist, lawyer, politician(well, maybe that wouldn't be so awful after all) is lost forever. I just think that you can't ask a woman to do something you are not prepared to do, or can not do for that matter, it's just not American. I am for fighting the battles I can win, and I think we can win the battle to give women a time frame for which to get this done, this is reasonable in my opinion.

If you are pro life and believe that life begins at conception then your stand on the issue is totally illogical......Why don't you hold the woman responsible for her irresponsible actions? Why do you giver her a pass?

 

[Alex]

State rights and individual rights are one in the same. Every power not explicitly given to the federal goverment is reserved for the state or the people.

No, they are not one in the same. States rights belong to a select group of people. Individual rights are just that, individual.

As for the conservative movement, it is already dead. Today's republicans are big goverment and big business. They give lip service to social conservatism to win elections.

I agree with this. I think Conservatives only use certain issues to gain votes.

Don't be to excited. Your liberal movement will die as well. Your entitelement programs and fiat money suplly is slowly but surely crushing our country. Eventually the real conservative movement will be restored to rescue you socialists from yourselves.

Very bad assumption. Why do you read my post and assume that just because I want the Conservative movement to end that I am automatically a Liberal in the Democrat sense? I am against most entitlement programs. I am against any government action that is not meant to protect someone who has not consented to direct, physical, and intentional harm. That strikes out 99% of our laws, including money programs.

 

[Navy Pride]

Not necessarily, I don't recall Reagan trying to reverse RoeVWade, but I think we both would agree we don't like the fact that abortion is so prevalent, but also know there is little we can do when a womans rights are at stake.

When Reagan was president it would have been impossible to reverse Roe V Wade.....The SCOTUS was tilted heavily to the left.........Make no mistake about it if he could have he would have overtturned it....He was a man that was strongly pro life and you know that.....

 

[Alex]

Or they could fight a reasonable battle, which is the length of time for which you have to make this choice!

I do not understand this post. Please elaborate.

 

[Deegan]

I do not understand this post. Please elaborate.

I believe, as many do, that there is a reasonable amount of time that you have to get this procedure, if you fail to act, then you must carry the child through till birth.

 

[zymurgy]

No, they are not one in the same. States rights belong to a select group of people. Individual rights are just that, individual.

WRONG!

Groups don't have rights, only individuals have rights. If you disagree, show me some text in the federal, or any state constitution that assigns rights to a group of people that an individual didn't already have.

 

[Alex]

I believe, as many do, that there is a reasonable amount of time that you have to get this procedure, if you fail to act, then you must carry the child through till birth.

I agree that "Partial-Birth Abortion" may be taking it too far. You make a good point in that it is long enough to figure it out.

 

[Navy Pride]

Someone who gets raped should go to the hospital where they can get the morning after pill and be checked for other problems. Or planned parenthood or their own physician. It's really a non-issue as it can and should be handled before the need for a surgical abortion ever arises.

I could never tell a woman who was inpregnated by rape or incest what to do but I would hope and pray that she would carry the baby to term and put it up for adoption if that was her choice.........

After all the life in the womb committed no crime but is and innocent victum in this whole scenario..........

 

[Alex]

WRONG!

Groups don't have rights, only individuals have rights. If you disagree, show me some text in the federal, or any state constitution that assigns rights to a group of people that an individual didn't already have.

Real rights are not assigned by the government. They are assigned by being born. Those are individual rights. State's rights are carried out by law which is not always what each individual wants. This means that the majority group imposed their rights.

 

[zymurgy]

Real rights are not assigned by the government. They are assigned by being born. Those are individual rights. State's rights are carried out by law which is not always what each individual wants. This means that the majority group imposed their rights.

You got the first part right. Rights are not assigned by a government. If we are lucky they will recognize our rights.

The second part you got wrong. What you are calling rights assigned to the state, are actually Powers.

Rights and Powers are not even close to the same.

you might say it is a matter of semantics, but I find the distinction extremely important when arguing libertarian principles.