Do you think a commercial jet could be hijacked today?

[Bob Blaylock]

The most important change made post 9/11 regarding aircraft safety are the locked, reinforced cockpit doors. The TSA is largely irrelevant security theater - the cockpit doors are a real, effective change. Personally I'd go for even greater separation between the flight crew and the passenger compartment by giving them a dedicated crew door and put a solid bulk head between the cockpit and the passengers. That would be for new designs - retrofitting is probably impossible.

And yeah I agree - planes as missiles was a one off. There is no way passengers will ever go quietly again. I kind of feel sorry for any fool who ever tries to hijack a plane to Cuba again. He's probably going to wind up very dead or wishing he was.

It would be even better if passengers weren't being so brutally deprived of anything that might ever conceivably be used as a weapon. As it is, any determined terrorist could certainly manage to smuggle some useful weapon-like object aboard the plane, which would give him a bit of an edge he wouldn't otherwise have against the other passengers who sheepishly surrendered their pocketknives, nail clippers, and such before boarding.

 

[Master PO]

I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?

YES! most definitely.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?

Of course it could...

You think prisoners in prison can get drugs, alcohol, guns or whatever they want? yet they're behind bars?

Hell a 10-year-old from the UK got mad at his mom and just got on an airplane without a ticket and few to Italy...

The other day some Mexican dude smuggled himself into a barrel of peppers and successfully landed in the US...

Many people have just jumped in wheel wells of aircraft to hitch a ride...

If someone is motivated enough they can find a way and will find a way.

 

[American]

Pilots have a fire ax which is more like a hammer sized device with a blade on it.

That said, we could always make it like roller coasters--you have to pull the bar down and then you are locked into place unless they let your up

That's funny. :lol:

 

[Northern Light]

I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?

Yes I do. The heightened security of airlines has been greatly over-exaggerated, and many independent journalists and investigators have demonstrated over the past 5-10 years that most of our airports still have major security flaws, from the way personnel are trained to the security features of airports themselves. One journalist I was following some years back actually detonated bombs on his ranch with his luggage and clothing nearby. He then proceeded to wear the bomb-dust laden clothes as he walked through security, and they didn't detect him. Another journalist was able to guess the code of the door leading to the restricted secure area, bypassing security entirely.

Bottom line, if someone wants to hijack a plane or blow it up, they are going to find away. It's not an idea that I relish, but there is something to be said for freedom vs. safety. IMO the situation with the TSA is part of the rising tyranny in America, and it's meant to keep people afraid and obedient. I personally think it's an embarrassment that most of the People will let themselves be x-rayed by government, exposing their nude bodies. It's so sheepish and repulsive. Those machines were rolled out within DAYS after the underwear bomber (whose attack failed anyway), so clearly this technology was going to happen.

Our government works entirely on pretext. Give them one excuse, no matter how small, and they will seize more power. It happens repeatedly, and now they are getting even bolder.

 

[Muhammed]

I think it can happen and probably will sooner or later. Only they won't do it by storming the cockpit, they'll do by taking over the fly by wire system.

 

[radcen]

Possible? yes, likely no!

This. It would be more difficult, and knowing what we know now passengers especially would be much more vigilant, but never say never.

 

[Gaius46]

Many people have just jumped in wheel wells of aircraft to hitch a ride...

I'm amazed that anyone could survive doing that. At typical cruising altitude temperatures are on the order of -40F and the air pressure is sufficiently low that hypoxia is assured - if I remember the stats right at 35,000 feet a person not using supplemental oxygen would remain conscious for something like half a minute.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I'm amazed that anyone could survive doing that. At typical cruising altitude temperatures are on the order of -40F and the air pressure is sufficiently low that hypoxia is assured - if I remember the stats right at 35,000 feet a person not using supplemental oxygen would remain conscious for something like half a minute.

I'm shocked it happens too - but it happens all the time.

Usually the "wheel well hoppers" only hitch a ride for short flights..... 35,000 - 40,000 feet is usually for longer flights tho. They generally only fly that high due to the curvature of the earth - you don't have to worry about that for a flight that's 500 miles away.

 

[FederalRepublic]

The most important change made post 9/11 regarding aircraft safety are the locked, reinforced cockpit doors. The TSA is largely irrelevant security theater - the cockpit doors are a real, effective change. Personally I'd go for even greater separation between the flight crew and the passenger compartment by giving them a dedicated crew door and put a solid bulk head between the cockpit and the passengers. That would be for new designs - retrofitting is probably impossible.

And yeah I agree - planes as missiles was a one off. There is no way passengers will ever go quietly again. I kind of feel sorry for any fool who ever tries to hijack a plane to Cuba again. He's probably going to wind up very dead or wishing he was.

That's great unless the person hijacking the plane is the pilot.

 

[Gaius46]

That's great unless the person hijacking the plane is the pilot.

If the pilot is bent on suicide there is absolutely no way anyone is ever going to stop him

 

[FederalRepublic]

If the pilot is bent on suicide there is absolutely no way anyone is ever going to stop him

Generally, I agree. If he wants to fly the plane into a building and you've made the cockpit a fortress, nobody is going to stop him.

 

[Gaius46]

Generally, I agree. If he wants to fly the plane into a building and you've made the cockpit a fortress, nobody is going to stop him.

Even with the the door no one's stopping him. The likelihood is that no one in the passenger compartment would know and even if they did what are they going to do? Kill him? Restrain him? Then who flies the plane? Certainly not the co-pilot because he's either in on it or incapacitated already. They only thing the passengers might change is the impact point.

And even if the passengers can intervene in a meaningful way how often do pilots hijack their own planes as compared to passengers? My gut feel is that a risk analysis would side very heavily with almost assuredly stopping passenger hijackings even at the expense at a small increase in the risk of a successful pilot hijacking.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Even with the the door no one's stopping him. The likelihood is that no one in the passenger compartment would know and even if they did what are they going to do? Kill him? Restrain him? Then who flies the plane? Certainly not the co-pilot because he's either in on it or incapacitated already. They only thing the passengers might change is the impact point.

And even if the passengers can intervene in a meaningful way how often do pilots hijack their own planes as compared to passengers? My gut feel is that a risk analysis would side very heavily with almost assuredly stopping passenger hijackings even at the expense at a small increase in the risk of a successful pilot hijacking.

I don't disagree that the chance of a pilot using his own airplane as a missile and/or kidnapping the passengers is less likely, but the chances of a plane being hijacked in any manner are pretty close to zero as well. It's only happened a handful of times. I also don't disagree with keeping the passengers out of the cockpit, but it's not without compromise.

 

[Gaius46]

I don't disagree that the chance of a pilot using his own airplane as a missile and/or kidnapping the passengers is less likely, but the chances of a plane being hijacked in any manner are pretty close to zero as well. It's only happened a handful of times. I also don't disagree with keeping the passengers out of the cockpit, but it's not without compromise.

Agreed. There's no such thing as a perfect solution to anything. Only thing we can do is weigh the risks and benefits, come up with what looks like it'll work best in most cases and accept the risk in the rest of the cases