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Do you think a commercial jet could be hijacked today?

MaggieD

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I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?
 

longview

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I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?
Possible? yes, likely no!
 

Gaius46

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The most important change made post 9/11 regarding aircraft safety are the locked, reinforced cockpit doors. The TSA is largely irrelevant security theater - the cockpit doors are a real, effective change. Personally I'd go for even greater separation between the flight crew and the passenger compartment by giving them a dedicated crew door and put a solid bulk head between the cockpit and the passengers. That would be for new designs - retrofitting is probably impossible.

And yeah I agree - planes as missiles was a one off. There is no way passengers will ever go quietly again. I kind of feel sorry for any fool who ever tries to hijack a plane to Cuba again. He's probably going to wind up very dead or wishing he was.
 

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Absolutely. The highjackers wouldn't even need to be on board.

Let's say I've dropped off a suitcase nuke in lower Manhattan and I call up the authorities and tell them that I want flight 1234 to head for Damascus instead of Heathrow. If the plane doesn't comply I'm going to blow up lower Manhattan. Do you figure they'd redirect the flight?
 

Gaius46

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Absolutely. The highjackers wouldn't even need to be on board.

Let's say I've dropped off a suitcase nuke in lower Manhattan and I call up the authorities and tell them that I want flight 1234 to head for Damascus instead of Heathrow. If the plane doesn't comply I'm going to blow up lower Manhattan. Do you figure they'd redirect the flight?
The flight crew might have different ideas.
 

Fisher

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I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?

Pilots have a fire ax which is more like a hammer sized device with a blade on it.

That said, we could always make it like roller coasters--you have to pull the bar down and then you are locked into place unless they let your up ;)
 

ttwtt78640

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That plot took easy advantage of a blatant weakness in ariline security. 4-5 morons "armed" with boxcutters were allowed to drive commercial aircraft into buildings. Those same morons could like not have robbed a typical grocery store. We supplied easy access to the explosives, lots of jet fuel, and the delivery vehicle, simply buy a ticket and then overpower the staff. The entire operation likely cost about $100K, yet our response cost us in the billions if not trillions. Terrorists "succeed" if they are simply able to make us spend more on defense, thus we have much less available to spend on offense.

I doubt that the same thing will be attempted again, but certainly see potential for other plots to succeed. Imagine the panic if small amounts of poisons were placed into food items, perhaps into turkies at Thanksgiving time, or if bombs were placed on dams, bridges or power water/power distribution equipment. Lots of mayhem can be accomplished with relatively little effort in many areas inside a free society.
 
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Aunt Spiker

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I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?
Of course. Why wouldn't it be possible? I've seen nothing while in flight that would tell me otherwise - only the hint of the idea that fighter jets would be sent out to respond?

LOL - oh, military response, eh? :lamo
 

CRUE CAB

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I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?
By the time the 4th plane was hijacked people were no longer going to sit like sheep.
I think the first couple planes full of people just thought, "hey, a trip to Cuba. Nice". Then the plane turned around.
 

Risky Thicket

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Anybody flying today is already a victim. Coast-to-coast is pretty much torture. I fly maybe six times a year, seven times a year. Air travel ain't what it used to be. If you can make it past the seat grabbers, screaming children, the airplane farters, and the cell phone talkers there is no way you are going to "sit back and enjoy the flight." There's no way terrorists want to spend the last 4 hours of their lives licking their own knees while folded into a seat on a cross country flight.

Terrorists know this. Fliers are no longer docile and compliant. Air travelers fly pissed off and stay pissed off for days after a flight. The hijackers would never be able to pull it off today. Hell, first class alone would rip them to shreds while those in coach would be screaming for blood.
 

Fisher

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By the time the 4th plane was hijacked people were no longer going to sit like sheep.
I think the first couple planes full of people just thought, "hey, a trip to Cuba. Nice". Then the plane turned around.
Well that is the rub of it. There had never been a hijacking like this before so people initially probably just assumed that they would get stuck on a tarmac for a few days somewhere until the mutilated bodies came rolling out and by then it was too late because they had the cockpit. It was about as low-tech of a terrorist attack as there has ever been.
 

OscarB63

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I don't. Even if someone got on the plane with a gun? I think he'd better have at least a half-dozen accomplices with him.

Hopefully, pilots are instructed NEVER to open the cockpit doors regardless of loss of life. It's my understanding that, when pilots leave the cockpit, the flight attendants lock their serving trays in place at the front of the aisle which would mean no rushing the door; but having to vault the trays. I understand they are heavily enforced and that many pilots have sidearms.

Further, I don't think passengers would sit as sheep anymore.

What do you think?
not with box cutters
 

MaggieD

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Anybody flying today is already a victim. Coast-to-coast is pretty much torture. I fly maybe six times a year, seven times a year. Air travel ain't what it used to be. If you can make it past the seat grabbers, screaming children, the airplane farters, and the cell phone talkers there is no way you are going to "sit back and enjoy the flight." There's no way terrorists want to spend the last 4 hours of their lives licking their own knees while folded into a seat on a cross country flight.

Terrorists know this. Fliers are no longer docile and compliant. Air travelers fly pissed off and stay pissed off for days after a flight. The hijackers would never be able to pull it off today. Hell, first class alone would rip them to shreds while those in coach would be screaming for blood.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

WCH

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Absolutely. The highjackers wouldn't even need to be on board.

Let's say I've dropped off a suitcase nuke in lower Manhattan and I call up the authorities and tell them that I want flight 1234 to head for Damascus instead of Heathrow. If the plane doesn't comply I'm going to blow up lower Manhattan. Do you figure they'd redirect the flight?
I'm guessing this is if the plane is going to become a suicide missile.

In your scenario, they might very well redirect the flight but, they're not going to waste a suitcase nuke for that purpose. If there was one in NYC, they'd likely set it off regardless
 

Fisher

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Anybody flying today is already a victim. Coast-to-coast is pretty much torture. I fly maybe six times a year, seven times a year. Air travel ain't what it used to be. If you can make it past the seat grabbers, screaming children, the airplane farters, and the cell phone talkers there is no way you are going to "sit back and enjoy the flight." There's no way terrorists want to spend the last 4 hours of their lives licking their own knees while folded into a seat on a cross country flight.

Terrorists know this. Fliers are no longer docile and compliant. Air travelers fly pissed off and stay pissed off for days after a flight. The hijackers would never be able to pull it off today. Hell, first class alone would rip them to shreds while those in coach would be screaming for blood.
Well that is about the race to the fare bottom moreso than anything else. A lot of now-defunct commuters/regionals got the sweetheart lease contracts that they milked until they ran out that left the major carriers having to do anything they could to stay afloat.
 

OscarB63

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Anybody flying today is already a victim. Coast-to-coast is pretty much torture. I fly maybe six times a year, seven times a year. Air travel ain't what it used to be. If you can make it past the seat grabbers, screaming children, the airplane farters, and the cell phone talkers there is no way you are going to "sit back and enjoy the flight." There's no way terrorists want to spend the last 4 hours of their lives licking their own knees while folded into a seat on a cross country flight.

Terrorists know this. Fliers are no longer docile and compliant. Air travelers fly pissed off and stay pissed off for days after a flight. The hijackers would never be able to pull it off today. Hell, first class alone would rip them to shreds while those in coach would be screaming for blood.
I fly many times a year on business and I always seem to get stuck next to the 300 pounder who has, apparently, not bathed/showered in a couple of days. or behind the lady with the ankle biter in a crate under the seat that barks the entire flight, or the screaming baby, or the seat kicker, etc, etc, etc. not too bad if you are on a short hop from Huntsvile to ATL. but those 5-6 hour direct flights from Huntsville to El Paso are murder.
 

molten_dragon

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Personally I'd go for even greater separation between the flight crew and the passenger compartment by giving them a dedicated crew door and put a solid bulk head between the cockpit and the passengers. That would be for new designs - retrofitting is probably impossible.
The only problem with that is that on the off chance that something were to happen to both pilots at once, no one else can get to the cockpit to try and safely land the plane, it's just going down. A better idea might be to have an airlock-style double door so that there can always be one locked door between the passenger cabin and the cockpit, even if the crew needs to come out to use the bathroom or something.
 

molten_dragon

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but those 5-6 hour direct flights from Huntsville to El Paso are murder.
Are you talking about a different huntsville or a different el paso? Because that shouldn't be anywhere near a 5-6 hour flight.
 

molten_dragon

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Actually all plastic cutters and knives are available to day. Plastic, carbon fiber and other lamanants are out there now. And can hold an edge very well.
There are also ceramic knives. Which is why they're switching from metal detectors to body scanners.
 

OscarB63

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Are you talking about a different huntsville or a different el paso? Because that shouldn't be anywhere near a 5-6 hour flight.
I'm including the time you sit on the plane. yeah, actual flight time is only around 3.5 hours. but you get on the plane and sit there for 45 minutes before they close the doors and then you taxi and sit for another 10 minutes. then you land and it takes you another 30 minutes to get off the damn plane.
 

MaggieD

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I'm including the time you sit on the plane. yeah, actual flight time is only around 3.5 hours. but you get on the plane and sit there for 45 minutes before they close the doors and then you taxi and sit for another 10 minutes. then you land and it takes you another 30 minutes to get off the damn plane.
I'd sooner stick a needle in my eye than fly today. Last flight I took was hours late...one end of O'Hare Airport to another for connections with minutes to spare...never again. I'll drive. But I'm lucky enough that I have the time to do that.
 

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Terrorists already won. That's why I'm not allowed to board a plane with my Gatorade or Head and Shoulders.
 

OscarB63

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I'd sooner stick a needle in my eye than fly today. Last flight I took was hours late...one end of O'Hare Airport to another for connections with minutes to spare...never again. I'll drive. But I'm lucky enough that I have the time to do that.
I flew out to SLC to visit my brother and we can in during a thunderstorm. we were literally 10-15 feet from the ground (i could see the cracks in the runway) when we got hit by wind sheer and the pilot punched it and up we went. had to fly to freakin Boise (which was their next scheduled stop) deplaned the Boise folks and then flew back to SLC since the storm had moved on.

I used to love flying, but I almost died several times in Iraq on planes so I've got a severe case of PTSD when it comes to flying now. and sadly, most of my business trips are to El Paso or Aberdeen MD, too far to drive. I did have to go to Eglin AFB in Fort Walton a couple of times last year. I told them, to hell with flying...I'll make the 6 hour drive.
 

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Actually hijacking a plane would be easy today (relatively speaking) if the hijackers are part of the flight crew.
 
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