Do you support increasing fuel and electricity costs?

[joko104]

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Democrats love to point to Germany's claim that almost 2/3ths of their energy comes from "renewables." The effect is paying 300% as much as Americans do. Going full renewables will make it over 400% higher.

Who high fuel and energy costs most harms are poor people, when it comes to costing $100 to fill up their car and their electric bill for a 600 square foot apartment costs $500 per month.

Of course, the Democratic Party will claim those people - poor people - are who have to sacrifice to save the earth.

Do you support increasing fuel and electricity costs?

 

[The Mark]

It's not that I like the idea of paying more.

It's that I think we don't have a choice but to make the changes you claim will cause those increases, and that if the increases cause issue we'll have to address those issues as well.

Edit: That, and the work necessary to make the changes which will benefit not only all of the nation but the world will, I think, also boost the economy.

 

[Grand Mal]

View attachment 67301319

OVO Greener Energy | OVO

You’ll get 100% PPA backed renewable electricity + £20 to support new renewable generators. Together, we’re powering a more sustainable future for the country.

www.ovoenergy.com

Democrats love to point to Germany's claim that almost 2/3ths of their energy comes from "renewables." The effect is paying 300% as much as Americans do. Going full renewables will make it over 400% higher.

Who high fuel and energy costs most harms are poor people, when it comes to costing $100 to fill up their car and their electric bill for a 600 square foot apartment costs $500 per month.

Of course, the Democratic Party will claim those people - poor people - are who have to sacrifice to save the earth.

Do you support increasing fuel and electricity costs?

Makes perfect sense for Germany to develop renewable sources of energy. They can control their energy sources that way and you can't put a price on that. Energy is relatively cheap in the USA because your ancestors had the foresight to put lakes of oil under your country so you can be all smug and self-congratulatory on the subject.
You would be singing a different song if you relied on Russia for petrol products. You'd be developing alternatives as fast as you could.

 

[joko104]

Makes perfect sense for Germany to develop renewable sources of energy. They can control their energy sources that way and you can't put a price on that. Energy is relatively cheap in the USA because your ancestors had the foresight to put lakes of oil under your country so you can be all smug and self-congratulatory on the subject.
You would be singing a different song if you relied on Russia for petrol products. You'd be developing alternatives as fast as you could.

Germany has massive quantities of coal and the USA (and Canada) will gladly sell Germany liquified gas and as much fuel and oil as Germany wants. It's not our fault if Germany massively depleted their oil access in trying to conquer the world.

I'll count you in the saying FU! - freeze to death for all you care - to poor people category. To you, it makes sense to make poor people suffer. But, then again, you don't really address the topic at all, do you? The topic is renewables at astronomical increases in fuel and electricity costs.

 

[joko104]

It's not that I like the idea of paying more.

It's that I think we don't have a choice but to make the changes you claim will cause those increases, and that if the increases cause issue we'll have to address those issues as well.

Edit: That, and the work necessary to make the changes which will benefit not only all of the nation but the world will, I think, also boost the economy.

Well then why don't you try to address those other issues that you claim we have no choice but to make - when we 100% have that choice to make - or not.

 

[joko104]

Pre-mature forcing technology is always a huge failure and waste of money. For DECADES it was claims the HYDROGEN fuel cells would be the new way to power cars. Research dollars were plowed into it. They even spoke of using hydrogen for electrical production and home heating - all coming to exactly nothing.

 

[The Mark]

Well then why don't you try to address those other issues that you claim we have no choice but to make - when we 100% have that choice to make - or not.

I think we had to make that choice years ago.
And didn't.

I'm really not sure what will happen in the next few decades, but I don't expect it to be good in terms of climate change.

As for addressing increases in energy cost, there are multiple things that could be done, from subsidizing it to nationalizing it. The last, obviously, being fairly extreme.
Of course, just like the climate change thing, it remains to be seen whether enough will be done, due to political reasons.

 

[swing_voter]

In Europe they tax your energy.

They do here too, but not as much.

 

[joko104]

I think we had to make that choice years ago.
And didn't.

I'm really not sure what will happen in the next few decades, but I don't expect it to be good in terms of climate change.

As for addressing increases in energy cost, there are multiple things that could be done, from subsidizing it to nationalizing it. The last, obviously, being fairly extreme.
Of course, just like the climate change thing, it remains to be seen whether enough will be done, due to political reasons.

How does nationalization save money? We know what happens from Venezuela.

There is absolutely nothing humans can do to stop climate change. We are at the end of a 12,000 year major ice age melt-off, for which there was a mini-ice age in the middle of this. 12,000 years ago the sea level was nearly 300 feet lower. It has been as much as 200 feet higher. NOTHING will stop the ice of they last ice age from continuing to melt.

What is so infuriating as that for future planning and for spending, we SHOULD be addressing the FACT that the sea levels will continue to slowly rise - and the nature of ice melting means the rising will slowly increase in rate of rise. But rather than spending money to deal with REALITY - the wealthiest people on earth and government claim that if only we give THEM trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars - while we all suffer the costs - they will do the impossible and take total control of the endless evolution of earth. Controlling ALL TV, newspapers, the internet and politicians, they incessantly use NAZI style incessant propaganda to convince people of this idiocy - while at the same time actually doing NOTHING do deal with reality.

I personally can trace back the rising sea level on our own property by the ancient Native American burial mounds on our property - that date from about 5000 years ago to about 1000 years ago. There are probably over 1000 such mounds we know of so far. The oldest are way underwater now. The newest are not. That all 100% predates the industrial revolution. To listen to and believe humans cause sea levels is to call every geologist on earth a liar.

The sea levels will continue to rise. Believing that cutting the 0.0017 percent of greenhouse gases by Americans by 50% - at a cost to poor and working people (and everyone else) of trillions upon trillions of dollars all into the pockets of the richest people on earth and their government partners - is entirely relying on how easy it for the super rich to use propaganda to panic stupid, non-thinking gullible people.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png/450px-Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png

NOTE: the chart is in meters, not feet. A meter is slightly more than 3 feet. 20,000 years ago the sea level was 350 feet lower than now. That is an average rise of 0.017 inches per year. The faster ice melts, the faster it melts (obvious).

But you have been convinced that chart is a lie - and that the sea level never changed until the industrial revolution.

FACT: eventually - unless there is another ice age - the sea level is going to rise 200 feet. Humans are powerless to stop it just as they are powerless to control the revolution and path of earth around the sun, powerless to control sun activity, powerless to change the tilting of the earth, powerless to change the internal heat of the earth, and powerless to stop ice age ice from melting as it always has done after each ice age. Denying these FACTS makes a person the true science deniers.

The other HUGE plus of advocacy of trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars more for governments and the super rich via climate change absurd claims is that it has silenced all talk of actual pollution and environmental damage. Stopping poisoning the oceans and land all COST money so that MUST be silenced by diversion to "climate change" that can be astronomically profitable to the super rich and governments - basically taking YOUR money and giving it to them directly or by government ordered doing business with them - ordering YOU to pay for new windows, more insulation, solar panels, $50,000 for an electric car, $10,000 for a charging station, $5000 for a battery pack, $8,000 for a new more efficient A/heating system, new government controlled thermostats - and on and on and on - all profits into the pockets of the already richest people on earth, while you are constantly under the watchful eye of government with criminal penalties lest you fail to profit the rich as ordered by the government they control.

 

[ttwtt78640]

By additional taxation of evil corporations and those greedy rich folks making $400K/year (or more) we can subsidize the GND costs for all (the rest) and create millions of new union scale jobs - just ask Biden or AOC.

 

[Peter King]

I would pay a bit more to make renewable energy sources more competitive, because if that happens they get used more and the price of those solar cells/etc. will go down making it more affordable for everybody to put them on their roof. Just think about a state like Arizona, it would be the PERFECT testing ground for a large roll out of solar cells on houses, selling it to the energy company and buying it at the same price so that it would be a zero emission system (for the most).

 

[bongsaway]

View attachment 67301319

OVO Greener Energy | OVO

You’ll get 100% PPA backed renewable electricity + £20 to support new renewable generators. Together, we’re powering a more sustainable future for the country.

www.ovoenergy.com

Democrats love to point to Germany's claim that almost 2/3ths of their energy comes from "renewables." The effect is paying 300% as much as Americans do. Going full renewables will make it over 400% higher.

Who high fuel and energy costs most harms are poor people, when it comes to costing $100 to fill up their car and their electric bill for a 600 square foot apartment costs $500 per month.

Of course, the Democratic Party will claim those people - poor people - are who have to sacrifice to save the earth.

Do you support increasing fuel and electricity costs?

Like the gop cares about poor people, what a joke. Like it or not, costs will increase.

 

[joko104]

Like the gop cares about poor people, what a joke. Like it or not, costs will increase.

Another "FU Poor People!" message by a Democrat. Like it or not, they can freeze to death for all you care. The wealthiest people on earth must get wealthier and if poor people have to die for this, you're 100% for it. It is that simple. The Democratic Party is nothing but a PR division of international corporate wealth. You are one of Jeff Bezos volunteer free servants of that division.

 

[bongsaway]

Another "FU Poor People!" message by a Democrat. Like it or not, they can freeze to death for all you care. The wealthiest people on earth must get wealthier and if poor people have to die for this, you're 100% for it. It is that simple. The Democratic Party is nothing but a PR division of international corporate wealth. You are one of Jeff Bezos volunteer free servants of that division.

Moan and groan to mitch, he's holding up another relief package.

I'm wondering how you came up with that nonsense since I said nothing like that? Must be your extreme mental powers to see into others minds.

 

[joko104]

I would pay a bit more to make renewable energy sources more competitive, because if that happens they get used more and the price of those solar cells/etc. will go down making it more affordable for everybody to put them on their roof. Just think about a state like Arizona, it would be the PERFECT testing ground for a large roll out of solar cells on houses, selling it to the energy company and buying it at the same price so that it would be a zero emission system (for the most).

I understand you don't give a damn about other people.

At least the leftwing admits they are now the corporate-wing and truly don't give a damn about blue collar workers and the poor.

The last time the Democratic Party became environmental fanatics it destroyed the USA auto industry, USA steel industry and the majority of blue collar and union industrial jobs. But it did make Asian and European competitors piles of money.

This time they are doing it for China, why they picked Quid Pro Quo China Joe.

 

[joko104]

By additional taxation of evil corporations and those greedy rich folks making $400K/year (or more) we can subsidize the GND costs for all (the rest) and create millions of new union scale jobs - just ask Biden or AOC.

What rich people? Jeff Bezos reported his income at only $87,000 thousand dollars last year. On that salary, he has been able to buy:

Bezos' home base is a nearly 29,000-square-foot estate in Medina, Washington. One home is a 20,600-square-foot, five-bedroom, four-bathroom house, and the other is an 8,300-square-foot, five-bedroom, four-bathroom home rumored to have cost $53 million.

AND

Meet Jeff Bezos' new yacht - The Flying Fox. ... According to Superyacht news, the 136.0m Flying Fox yacht was built in 2019 by Lürssen. She features an exterior design by Espen Oeino and an interior by Mark Berryman. It can sleep up to 22 guests taken care of by a crew of 54.

And

Making only $87,000 a year, he will not pay 1 penny under Joe Biden's "tax the rich" plan. Yet others claim he made over $100 billion MORE just this year.

I guess he's really good at budgeting, huh? HE is who nearly all Democrats worship and he and a few other mega billionaires are in control of the Democratic Party. Joe Biden in 47 has never supported taxing the rich. In fact, in the Senate he is mister credit card - why credit card interest can be as high as 36%. He loves rich people. You? You don't even qualify as dirt under his feet.

Democrats are voting for Jeff Bezos, the WalMart heirs and the other owner-partners with Chinese child labor slavery factories - but that's ok to Democrats as always because they are non-white. Besides, at $3 a day those foreign people of color should be thankful. Slaves usually get nothing - but from that $3 they have to pay for their room and board - something most slaves don't have to pay.

 

[joko104]

I think ALL of us should be given multiple mansions, super yachts and private jet liners so we can do as much for climate change as Bezos does, don't you think? If you don't have those things then YOU are responsible for destroying earth.

 

[Peter]

I think many Americans would be shocked at the price of petrol in the UK.
It's £1.24 a litre here so $1.62 a litre.

I have no idea how much it is for you guys.

 

[joko104]

I think many Americans would be shocked at the price of petrol in the UK.
It's £1.24 a litre here so $1.62 a litre.

I have no idea how much it is for you guys.

Depending where in the USA, about 0.60 cents per litre.

 

[joko104]

The last time the environmental Democrats were successful in shutting down oil and gas exploration on federal land (which includes offshore) was during President Jimmy Carter. So how'd that work out?

Gasoline went from 26 cents a gallon to $4.00 a gallon - and you had to wait 1 to 2 hours for a 5 gallon limit. Do the math. That means that $2.00 a gallon gasoline and diesel will go to $15 a gallon. It will cost nearly $200 to fill up an economy car - and $400 for a pickup truck.

Will electric cars be cheaper? Using the European model for electric costs of renewables, 100% renewables will increase electric costs over 500%. Plus they want a per-mile tax on electric cars since there is no fuel tax - though they will add an electric car charging tax as a road tax.

Your rent will radically increase as landlords are required spend tens of thousands per unit for solar panels, new windows, new insulation, a charging station and government limited thermostats with it a felony to alter them like it is a felony to alter your car. You will be required to buy an electric car.

When you are paying $150, $250, $400 to fill up your vehicle, your electric bill is well over a thousand a month for a 1 bedroom apartment, or have to spend $40,000 to bring your home up to federal code - if you voted for Biden there is only one person to complain about it too - yourself looking in the mirror.

 

[Peter King]

I understand you don't give a damn about other people.

At least the leftwing admits they are now the corporate-wing and truly don't give a damn about blue collar workers and the poor.

The last time the Democratic Party became environmental fanatics it destroyed the USA auto industry, USA steel industry and the majority of blue collar and union industrial jobs. But it did make Asian and European competitors piles of money.

This time they are doing it for China, why they picked Quid Pro Quo China Joe.

Yeah, that is incorrect. We actually do care about other people, especially those not so well off. That is why were are for livable wages, not piss poor wages. It is the right who really does not care about the blue collar workers and the poor because it keeps siding with the billionaire class of America. The right has been playing feed the rich for decades. It started with the trickle down nonsense, then tax cut for mostly the rich after tax cut for mostly the rich.

You do not have to destroy the car industry, but if your car industry was just focused on making the biggest fuel consuming beasts possible, don't come whining to the EU competitors and the Asian competitors for making products people who are not well off to pay for those fuel pits on wheels fuel costs. While the US kept thinking bigger is ALWAYS better when it came to cars, the European and Asians produced cars that could be sold on any continent, not just in the US. They kept evolving and producing good cars who are affordable and fuel economic.

The European and Japanese company owners understood they could never compete with the Chinese on low cost products. Most of our companies started producing high end goods for which a premium could be asked. That US companies had a bit of an arrogant attitude to think it could compete with cheap labor countries again is not the fault of the democrats or the Japanese/Europeans.

And quid pro quo China Joe

Who has been trying to get off the ground in China? Yup, crooked Donny.

Who has paid a lot of tax in China to the Chinese government? Yup, crooked Donny.

Who had his items produced in China? Yup, crooked Donny.

Who's daughter has been getting Chinese business deals while working in the WH? Yup, Ivanka, crooked Donny's chip of the old crooked block.

Who's son in law was dealing with China? Yup, crooked Donny's son in law.

And who tried to quid pro quo himself into a deal with the Ukraine? Yup, it is dishonest and crooked Donny too.

You may call Joe Biden all the names in the world, your candidate has done much more crooked things (if Joe Biden has been guilty of anything to begin with) in the past decade than Joe Biden has done in all of his life. And he is an old man, so that is saying something.

 

[Grand Mal]

Germany has massive quantities of coal and the USA (and Canada) will gladly sell Germany liquified gas and as much fuel and oil as Germany wants. It's not our fault if Germany massively depleted their oil access in trying to conquer the world.

I'll count you in the saying FU! - freeze to death for all you care - to poor people category. To you, it makes sense to make poor people suffer. But, then again, you don't really address the topic at all, do you? The topic is renewables at astronomical increases in fuel and electricity costs.

Germany tried to increase It's access to oil by cknqu

Germany has massive quantities of coal and the USA (and Canada) will gladly sell Germany liquified gas and as much fuel and oil as Germany wants. It's not our fault if Germany massively depleted their oil access in trying to conquer the world.

I'll count you in the saying FU! - freeze to death for all you care - to poor people category. To you, it makes sense to make poor people suffer. But, then again, you don't really address the topic at all, do you? The topic is renewables at astronomical increases in fuel and electricity costs.

Will you for **** sakes calm down?
German coal power invented acid rain. The Black Forest has only recently recovered. Germany didn't have any oil access in WW2, that's part of the reason for Operation Barbarossa.
Odd. Why would you object to a foreign country trying to devise ways to be less dependant on foreign sources of energy?

 

[joko104]

Yeah, that is incorrect. We actually do care about other people, especially those not so well off. That is why were are for livable wages, not piss poor wages. It is the right who really does not care about the blue collar workers and the poor because it keeps siding with the billionaire class of America. The right has been playing feed the rich for decades. It started with the trickle down nonsense, then tax cut for mostly the rich after tax cut for mostly the rich.

You do not have to destroy the car industry, but if your car industry was just focused on making the biggest fuel consuming beasts possible, don't come whining to the EU competitors and the Asian competitors for making products people who are not well off to pay for those fuel pits on wheels fuel costs. While the US kept thinking bigger is ALWAYS better when it came to cars, the European and Asians produced cars that could be sold on any continent, not just in the US. They kept evolving and producing good cars who are affordable and fuel economic.

The European and Japanese company owners understood they could never compete with the Chinese on low cost products. Most of our companies started producing high end goods for which a premium could be asked. That US companies had a bit of an arrogant attitude to think it could compete with cheap labor countries again is not the fault of the democrats or the Japanese/Europeans.



You may call Joe Biden all the names in the world, your candidate has done much more crooked things (if Joe Biden has been guilty of anything to begin with) in the past decade than Joe Biden has done in all of his life. And he is an old man, so that is saying something.

You agree that last part you posted is about President Trump, correct?

Until Jimmy Carter came along, the USA was making awesome cars, while Asian cars were cracker box crap, UK and French cars were jokes, and German cars were overprices snails with neither good mileage or performance. The USA's industrial power was based upon our natural resources. Liberal Democrats outlawed using our natural resources - destroying the American auto industry, the US steel industry, and in this a thousand other industries - all but destroying many of America's greatest cities.

The economic revival of the USA, the lowest black, Latino and female unemployment is US history (other than during WW2) foremost has been because the USA turned the energy spigot back on.

I understand the Democratic Party WARS oil wars. The Democratic Party always wants war. Over 90% of American war deaths have been under Democrats.

Besides, someone in the Neatherlands demanding the USA destroy our energy economy is pure hypocrisy:

The Dutch electricity system mostly uses fossil fuels for power generation, mainly natural gas and coal, which accounts for approximately 31.25 gigawatts (GW). northern part of the country is rich in natural gas and as a result, most Dutch power plants run on gas.

The USA probably should go to war against Neatherland to stop YOUR country continuing to destroy earth.

 

[joko104]

Germany tried to increase It's access to oil by cknqu

Will you for **** sakes calm down?
German coal power invented acid rain. The Black Forest has only recently recovered. Germany didn't have any oil access in WW2, that's part of the reason for Operation Barbarossa.
Odd. Why would you object to a foreign country trying to devise ways to be less dependant on foreign sources of energy?

The German model shows the massive financial ruin the Biden/Harris plan promising to end ALL petro chemical production and exploration on federal land will cost those people LEAST able to pay it.

I can afford paying $400 to fill up my truck every week, just like I can afford to spend more than that now to fill up our largest boat. But most Americans can't. Most Americans don't have $150 to fill up an economy car. They don't have $40,000 for an electric car - nor any way to charge it at their apartment or rent house. Most Americans can't afford $1000+ a month electric bills. They can't afford to pay hundreds more in rent or spend tens of thousands to upgrade their home.

Of course, you don't give a damn about poor people. Almost no Democrats do because the propaganda of millions speaking for their billionaire employers tell them what to think - and censor/ban anything said otherwise. NO discussion of the actual costs to people of banning oil and gas exploration will cost.

A summary of your - and every message - by a Democrat and/or progressive-fascist on this thread don't even pretend they don't care what harms this causes poor and working class people. Why should YOU care - it's not you. It'd probably be better for you if they just died off anyway.

 

[Integrityrespec]

View attachment 67301319

OVO Greener Energy | OVO

You’ll get 100% PPA backed renewable electricity + £20 to support new renewable generators. Together, we’re powering a more sustainable future for the country.

www.ovoenergy.com

Democrats love to point to Germany's claim that almost 2/3ths of their energy comes from "renewables." The effect is paying 300% as much as Americans do. Going full renewables will make it over 400% higher.

Who high fuel and energy costs most harms are poor people, when it comes to costing $100 to fill up their car and their electric bill for a 600 square foot apartment costs $500 per month.

Of course, the Democratic Party will claim those people - poor people - are who have to sacrifice to save the earth.

Do you support increasing fuel and electricity costs?

The French are investing a large portion of their energy dollars in Nuclear the Germans in wind/solar and Germany spends more and is getting less. Germany pays double what the French do for power.