Do you support a smoking ban in your city?

[Deegan]

If you can't counter my points, ignoring is always an option.

I can, and I have, what I can't do, is to make you stop taking my words out of context, or just out right lying.:roll:

 

[Kelzie]

I can, and I have, what I can't do, is to make you stop taking my words out of context, or just out right lying.:roll:

Really? I must have missed that. Please point out where you have provided proof that inhaling small amounts of smoke doesn't harm you. Of course, you could always retract your original statement.

 

[BodiSatva]

americanwoman
Last week they enacted a smoking ban in my city. Although I am a social smoker occasionally I don't really like the smell especially in restaraunts, which this ban targets.
However what really amazes me in this beautiful free country of America,is that the government will take away the power of a business owner and tell them they have to ban a legal susbstance from being used in their own establishments. That is one of the most unconstitutional things I have ever heard of. It just blows my mind how people support this kind of dictatorship in our country and thats what it comes down to. The government is banning you to use a legal substance on a private owned property.
I think a smoke ban could be a good thing but I really think each business should have the option to go smokeless. When you take away that option you take away the freedoms this country was built on. So do you support a smoking ban? I certainly don't

.

I am entering late, so if I use something that somebody else has, then just let me know.

I support bans on smoking. I live in California, and it is great. I also support ban on using air-horns inside cafes and loud parties at 2am. Why? They are a public nuisance. There are laws that state that your car stereo should not be so loud that it can be heard from 50 feet away…that one is stretching it, but not the others.

Poor party goers have to stop making all of that loud ruckus so that my kids can sleep. I am sooo selfish, huh? Nope, it is the other way around my friends.

The last thing that I ever wanted as an athlete or as just simply a person who loves the smell of fresh air, was to have some A-hole at the track meet smoking or in the park smoking or in a restaurant smoking. In the restaurant I could not smell the bouquet of the wine nor the wonderful aroma of the entrée with that crap smoke floating around. My clothes would smell like sh!t smoke the rest of the evening…not matter what I did, that smoke smell would be there...to the movie or going to cuddle in the back seat with my lady…TO BAD HOMEBOY…YOU SMELL LIKE SMOKE NOW! All because some other selfish person subjugated ME with THEIR addiction…

 

[zymurgy]

I've noticed you have yet to provide any proof that the Surgeon General is wrong. I'm still waiting. :2wave:

Wrong about what? That 2nd hand smoke at some level is harmful, can't figure out which level, so just assume any level is harmful.

No, I can't prove that kind of "science" wrong.

I can prove you claimed that smoke is a carcinogen and all carcinogens at any level are harmful. I proved you were full of crap about that.

 

[Kelzie]

Wrong about what? That 2nd hand smoke at some level is harmful, can't figure out which level, so just assume any level is harmful.

No, I can't prove that kind of "science" wrong.

I can prove you claimed that smoke is a carcinogen and all carcinogens at any level are harmful. I proved you were full of crap about that.

I didn't think you could. Thank you for conceding the point.

 

[Deegan]

Really? I must have missed that. Please point out where you have provided proof that inhaling small amounts of smoke doesn't harm you. Of course, you could always retract your original statement.

As I'm quite certain you know, I never said it was not harmful, but I also said added that it was no more so then a car passing you on the street, are you going to ban cars now?

The point is, you said you can't find a bar that does not have smoke, this means that a whole lot of folks want to drink and smoke, and not step outside everytime they do. You want these people to change, and not do something that is legal, all because you don't smoke, that's fascism!

Can smokers not have at the very least, a bar to go to and enjoy themselves?

 

[zymurgy]

I didn't think you could. Thank you for conceding the point.

your welcome.

I can't prove junk science wrong. Your point has been conceited

 

[Kandahar]

The legality shouldn't matter here. Will you all of a sudden support a smoking ban if it was made illegal to smoke?

I would oppose making it illegal to smoke in the first place, but I would recognize that businesses wouldn't have any legal right to create their own fiefdom. In the same sense, I'm completely in favor of the legalization of nearly all drugs, but that doesn't mean that businesses have the right to allow cocaine trafficking on their premises prior to that happening.

 

[Kelzie]

As I'm quite certain you know, I never said it was not harmful, but I also said added that it was no more so then a car passing you on the street, are you going to ban cars now?

The point is, you said you can't find a bar that does not have smoke, this means that a whole lot of folks want to drink and smoke, and not step outside everytime they do. You want these people to change, and not do something that is legal, all because you don't smoke, that's fascism!

Can smokers not have at the very least, a bar to go to and enjoy themselves?

I'm sure it is harmful on some miniscule level. That's what we have a government for, to make laws about when a substance is too harmful to allow on public OR private property. I personally believe smoking should be included.

I don't want them to change. They can still smoke. Outside.

 

[Kelzie]

I would oppose making it illegal to smoke in the first place, but I would recognize that businesses wouldn't have any legal right to create their own fiefdom. In the same sense, I'm completely in favor of the legalization of nearly all drugs, but that doesn't mean that businesses have the right to allow cocaine trafficking on their premises prior to that happening.

That does not answer my question. Would you support a smoking ban if smoking were in fact illegal? Seems the only reason you don't support a fiefdom (where'd you come up with that? :lol: ) is because it is currently illegal.

 

[zymurgy]

I'm sure it is harmful on some miniscule level. That's what we have a government for, to make laws about when a substance is too harmful to allow on public OR private property. I personally believe smoking should be included.

I don't want them to change. They can still smoke. Outside.

If 2nd hand smoke at any level is harmful, what good does smoking outside make? Its still second hand smoke at "any level".

 

[Kelzie]

If 2nd hand smoke at any level is harmful, what good does smoking outside make? Its still second hand smoke at "any level".

There's a whole lot of "outside". It's much easier to avoid.

 

[zymurgy]

There's a whole lot of "outside". It's much easier to avoid.

So why are you ignoring the surgeon generals advice?

It creates second hand smoke. Outside even. That's dangerous at any level.

 

[Deegan]

I'm sure it is harmful on some miniscule level. That's what we have a government for, to make laws about when a substance is too harmful to allow on public OR private property. I personally believe smoking should be included.

I don't want them to change. They can still smoke. Outside.

So half the people would be outside in the cold, or heat, or rain, sounds like fun, for you perhaps. I have conceded all of your points, public buildings, stores, even restaruants, but you can't allow bars, even cigar bars, I think you are being unreasonable. That said, that's your opinion, you are entitled, I just wanted you to know how selfish that sounds.

 

[Kelzie]

So why are you ignoring the surgeon generals advice?

It creates second hand smoke. Outside even. That's dangerous at any level.

Which can be avoided. Like I said, there's a lot of outside.

 

[Kelzie]

So half the people would be outside in the cold, or heat, or rain, sounds like fun, for you perhaps. I have conceded all of your points, public buildings, stores, even restaruants, but you can't allow bars, even cigar bars, I think you are being unreasonable. That said, that's your opinion, you are entitled, I just wanted you to know how selfish that sounds.

Aw, hey I'm okay with cigar bars. I believe most places that have banned smoking in bars have created waivers for those.

 

[Kandahar]

That does not answer my question. Would you support a smoking ban if smoking were in fact illegal? Seems the only reason you don't support a fiefdom (where'd you come up with that? :lol: ) is because it is currently illegal.

There's a difference between support and recognition.

So if Tobacco Prohibition, under all circumstances, went into effect tomorrow: No, I would not SUPPORT a smoking ban because it would remain a terrible idea. Yes, I would RECOGNIZE that private businesses had no right to flout the law.

 

[zymurgy]

Which can be avoided. Like I said, there's a lot of outside.

Its far easier to avoid private establishments that operate in a manner you don't like then to avoid public spaces altogether.

And it doesn't matter anyway. your argument is weak and you know it.

Your hero has said at any level it is dangerous, yet you want people to take it outside. Those are his words you are using to support a coercive policy against a private industry "harmful at any level", yet you ignore his words of caution now.

how about a little consistency in your emotional stance?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You too with the name calling? I'd really hate to have to drag another mod in here, so I'll just ask you politely to cool it.

1. No non smoking bars aroung me.
2. No non smoking bars in restaurants around me.
3. I don't want to start a bar.


Now that we have that settled, stop dodging my question and answer it.

1.) I didn't call you a name .... Lets get that perfectly straight right away. I was refering to the manner in which I thought you were acting.

2.) If there are no non smoking restaurants you must live in some pretty thick sticks... In which case just take the horse n buggy over the next hollar.....

I have answered every question You have asked. Wether or not you have accepted or liked the answer is entirely up to you. You are willing to take a legal activity in a legal establishment and ban it to make you feel better.. And once this happens I again ask ... Were do we stop. Alcholol? Are we going to get back into prohibition. Foods? Only the healthiest and natural will be available for consumption. Clothing, are going to go with a uniform so that everyone conforms. Your fashion may very hurt my sensibilities. I figure kelzie if your willing to ban one legal activity I see no reason why you won't stop till we are one large conformist fascist state.....

Get the books... were gonna have a fire

 

[Kelzie]

Its far easier to avoid private establishments that operate in a manner you don't like then to avoid public spaces altogether.

And it doesn't matter anyway. your argument is weak and you know it.

Your hero has said at any level it is dangerous, yet you want people to take it outside. Those are his words you are using to support a coercive policy against a private industry "harmful at any level", yet you ignore his words of caution now.

how about a little consistency in your emotional stance?

How am I ignoring it? If you don't like someone smoking in front of you, cross the street. No more smoke present, even in small amounts.

So where's the weakness?

 

[BodiSatva]

:rofl

Oh man!

I just hate trying to get into a debate and Being TOTALLY IGNORED!!
AARRGGHH!@

:lol:

 

[Kandahar]

Aw, hey I'm okay with cigar bars. I believe most places that have banned smoking in bars have created waivers for those.

What is the distinction between those and any other type of establishment that wants to allow smoking?

 

[zymurgy]

How am I ignoring it? If you don't like someone smoking in front of you, cross the street. No more smoke present, even in small amounts.

So where's the weakness?

If some guy is smoking across the street, I'm exposed to "some level" of 2nd hand smoke. Which your hero has assured us is dangerous. The minute I identify that someone within eyesight to me is smoking, its too late. I have been exposed to "some level" of 2nd hand smoke.

There's the weakness.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

No, she did not just make this rule up.

Second hand smoke IS harmful. Not AS harmful as smoking itself is, but yes, it is harmful. You may not be able to actually SEE the effects of this in every single individual that has ever inhaled second hand smoke, but it's there.

Besides, the fumes from a passing car is hardly comparable to being in a bar full of smoke. There's a lot more oxygen available outdoors to deflect most of the fumes from a car that passes you in all of about 5 seconds; it's a much different story when you're in an enclosed area and there's nowhere else for the smoke to go.

And before anyone starts jumping on me, I'm not a proponent of these smoking bans......but I am able to see it from the viewpoint of those who do.

And you did your research on second hand smoke were?

 

[Kelzie]

1.) I didn't call you a name .... Lets get that perfectly straight right away. I was refering to the manner in which I thought you were acting.

2.) If there are no non smoking restaurants you must live in some pretty thick sticks... In which case just take the horse n buggy over the next hollar.....

I have answered every question You have asked. Wether or not you have accepted or liked the answer is entirely up to you. You are willing to take a legal activity in a legal establishment and ban it to make you feel better.. And once this happens I again ask ... Were do we stop. Alcholol? Are we going to get back into prohibition. Foods? Only the healthiest and natural will be available for consumption. Clothing, are going to go with a uniform so that everyone conforms. Your fashion may very hurt my sensibilities. I figure kelzie if your willing to ban one legal activity I see no reason why you won't stop till we are one large conformist fascist state.....

Get the books... were gonna have a fire

1) Your attempt to skate around the rules is amusing.

2) There are plenty of non smoking restaurants. I have yet to see one with a non smoking bar. And being that I was formerly in the restaurant industry, I have seen the inside of a good number of restuarants.

As for the rest of your slippery slope argument, I've already addressed what deserves to be addressed.