Do You Hope PPACA aka Obamacare Succeeds or Fails

[Porchev]

I wish Obamacare would go away and we could go back to having the best healthcare in the world. For the people that couldn't afford it, get them on Medicaid or get them EBT type cards for healthcare or something. For those with pre-existing conditions, make sure there are insurance options for them.

 

[joko104]

I was with you until the red part. Single payer is socialized medicine, and people would have no choice because liberals would write policy to drive all private insurance out of the business.

I DO understand your objection, but in fact we have "socialized" medicine to the extend anyone can go to ER and ultimately find a hospital that PROBABLY will treat them. However, it is terribly organized, is a hodgepodge overall, and the whole system of healthcare is a mess - and it's not just government and insurance companies, but special interests, the AMA, drug companies, FDA etc, etc.

Society - right or wrong - is NOT going to allow poor people dying on the front yards of hospitals. SO the question is what then?

A large percentage of people cannot afford their healthcare, nor could afford the costs of insurance - noting that insurance doesn't provide healthcare and is just a Las Vegas middleman. In short, I think it isn't a question of "if" we have "socialized medicine." We already did and already do. The question is what form of it?

The reason I don't think it works on a local or state level as there it would be in the economic incentives to try to get indigent healthcare done in another city or state.

 

[joko104]

I wish Obamacare would go away and we could go back to having the best healthcare in the world. For the people that couldn't afford it, get them on Medicaid or get them EBT type cards for healthcare or something. For those with pre-existing conditions, make sure there are insurance options for them.

That last sentence entirely contradicts your statement. You wish Obamacare would go away, as long as we keep the core principle of Obamacare.

 

[digsbe]

I hope it succeeds in expanding coverage at lower costs without cutting reimbursement and rewarding good performance.

However, given the nature of the law and it being implemented, I do not think this will be the result. I hope it succeeds but I know it will likely fail if not already.

 

[Porchev]

That last sentence entirely contradicts your statement. You wish Obamacare would go away, as long as we keep the core principle of Obamacare.

If that last sentence was the core of Obamacare then the law would be 1 page long instead of 3000 pages.

 

[American]

I DO understand your objection, but in fact we have "socialized" medicine to the extend anyone can go to ER and ultimately find a hospital that PROBABLY will treat them. However, it is terribly organized, is a hodgepodge overall, and the whole system of healthcare is a mess - and it's not just government and insurance companies, but special interests, the AMA, drug companies, FDA etc, etc.

Society - right or wrong - is NOT going to allow poor people dying on the front yards of hospitals. SO the question is what then?

A large percentage of people cannot afford their healthcare, nor could afford the costs of insurance - noting that insurance doesn't provide healthcare and is just a Las Vegas middleman. In short, I think it isn't a question of "if" we have "socialized medicine." We already did and already do. The question is what form of it?

The reason I don't think it works on a local or state level as there it would be in the economic incentives to try to get indigent healthcare done in another city or state.

This was a law signed by Reagan. Laws can be changed or repealed. Let's not compound the problem by allowing the govt to do more.

 

[iguanaman]

I wish Obamacare would go away and we could go back to having the best healthcare in the world. For the people that couldn't afford it, get them on Medicaid or get them EBT type cards for healthcare or something. For those with pre-existing conditions, make sure there are insurance options for them.

But we don't have the best healthcare in the world by any measure so you lose right from the start. We also pay double what other nations pay for mediocre outcomes. That is what the private system has brought us. Not fixing it now would be criminal.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Thread: Do You Hope PPACA aka Obamacare Succeeds or Fails

How about it?

Succeeds or fails at what? It's not like we're flipping a coin here. Are you asking if we hope it is regarded as a political success or a political failure?

What is it that you think the law has the potential to successfully do?

 

[AGENT J]

How about it?

well this is what PPACA is:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The ACA aims to increase the quality and affordability of health insurance, lower the uninsured rate by expanding public and private insurance coverage, and reduce the costs of healthcare for individuals and the government. It provides a number of mechanisms—including mandates, subsidies, and insurance exchanges—to increase coverage and affordability. The law also requires insurance companies to cover all applicants within new minimum standards and offer the same rates regardless of pre-existing conditions or sex. Additional reforms aim to reduce costs and improve healthcare outcomes by shifting the system towards quality over quantity through increased competition, regulation, and incentives to streamline the delivery of healthcare. The Congressional Budget Office projected that the ACA will lower both future deficits and Medicare spending."


now im not saying i think it will do all that, or i agree how its trying to do all that but since thats the goal we are talking about?

my answer is yes!


of course i want it to succeed, theres no rational logical reason based on the above to want it to fail. Id have to be a complete moron to not want those things above accomplished.

 

[joko104]

It's a just a bit by analogy asking if you want Germany's National Socialism in the 1930s to succeed. There is the greater question of the core principle of what ObamaCare is. It is being born indebted to corporations and an "existence" tax.

This country never before taxed people because solely because they were American and alive. It never "buy this from a short list of companies every year OR pay the government an annual exclusion bribery tax."

The ACA marriage between government and corporations - that we 100% all must support financially - is called "corporate fascism" as now part of our system of government. I do NOT want that to "succeed" any more than I want torture to succeed nor would want an American theocratic government to succeed.

It is NOT just what the ACA is, but also what it leads to and what we have allowed as our NEW definition of enhanced government and corporate power over we-the-people.

 

[joko104]

well this is what PPACA is:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The ACA aims to increase the quality and affordability of health insurance, lower the uninsured rate by expanding public and private insurance coverage, and reduce the costs of healthcare for individuals and the government. It provides a number of mechanisms—including mandates, subsidies, and insurance exchanges—to increase coverage and affordability. The law also requires insurance companies to cover all applicants within new minimum standards and offer the same rates regardless of pre-existing conditions or sex. Additional reforms aim to reduce costs and improve healthcare outcomes by shifting the system towards quality over quantity through increased competition, regulation, and incentives to streamline the delivery of healthcare. The Congressional Budget Office projected that the ACA will lower both future deficits and Medicare spending."


now im not saying i think it will do all that, or i agree how its trying to do all that but since thats the goal we are talking about?

my answer is yes!


of course i want it to succeed, theres no rational logical reason based on the above to want it to fail. Id have to be a complete moron to not want those things above accomplished.

Wow, at least you openly acknowledge it is only words that matter to you, not substance or the reality behind the words. So, if it was this was the stated goal of establishing a rightwing theocratic government for which those goals would be accomplished by a prayer initiative and giving massive sums of money to churches so people prayed more for those result, you would also equally "hope it succeeds."

 

[Linc]

So if we go back to this year's plans, those who can't afford their illnesses from their health care plan
will fall back to the public dime, costing it more than it would with a better plan on ACA..
At this late time of night, I am heartened ACA is out 5 times faster than RomneyCare on day 43,
with Romney not facing universal assault from the other party..

But we don't have the best healthcare in the world by any measure so you lose right from the start. We also pay double what other nations pay for mediocre outcomes. That is what the private system has brought us. Not fixing it now would be criminal.

 

[joko104]

This was a law signed by Reagan. Laws can be changed or repealed. Let's not compound the problem by allowing the govt to do more.

I've known far too many poor children and adults to be willing to accept that if a person can't afford to see a doctor for a prescription for an antibotic then that child or person has to die to defend pure capitalism. Sorry, can't agree to that.

 

[AGENT J]

1.)Wow, at least you openly acknowledge it is only words that matter to you, not substance or the reality behind the words.
2.) So, if it was this was the stated goal of establishing a rightwing theocratic government for which those goals would be accomplished by a prayer initiative and giving massive sums of money to churches so people prayed more for those result, you would also equally "hope it succeeds."

1.) nope not what i said at all lol I never mentioned one time what MATTERS to me in fact i clearly said my vote has nothing to do with " saying i think it will do all that, or i agree how its trying to do all that"

of course :shrug:

2.) could you reword these please, i HONESTLY dont know what you are saying/asking?

ill take a guess and you can confirm though

are you asking me if i would want a bill to succeed that establishes a new form of american government ending the mix of republic democracy and change to a "rightwing" theocracy?
and im GUESSING you mean a theocracy based on my religion, Christianity?

and then after that healthcare will no longer be a concern of money, regulations etc but large sums of money will be filtered to churches to help them increase prayer

and those prayers will be for better health?

 

[Linc]

How would you change the Reagan law??
What would you do with the future people to be helped by this Reagan law??
Reagan 1: Where would we be without 20 years of this Reagan law..
Reagan 2: What about the amnesty, and the torrential-down after effects..
Reagan 3: The beginning of 400 billion deficits..
Reagan 4: Stopped the 20-year cycle of Presidents dying in office since 1840..
Reagan 5: Signed the first trade-give-away treaty, to Israel..
Reagan 6: Iran/Contra, Beirut
There's plenty more, as you know

This was a law signed by Reagan. Laws can be changed or repealed.
Let's not compound the problem by allowing the govt to do more.

 

[Buck Ewer]

It will succeed.
It will take time , but it will succeed at getting adequate health insurance for the entire country's citizenry with a minimum of disruption.
Insurance corporations will still get fabulously wealthy selling health insurance and the nation will be healthier and secure in knowing that they will not go broke if they get sick or injured.

 

[Neomalthusian]

It will succeed.
It will take time , but it will succeed at getting adequate health insurance for the entire country's citizenry with a minimum of disruption.
Insurance corporations will still get fabulously wealthy selling health insurance and the nation will be healthier and secure in knowing that they will not go broke if they get sick or injured.

If insurance companies were getting fabulously wealthy previously and will continue to do so, and this has contributed to a system in which medical care is astronomically expensive, then where is the money coming from such that this policy is considered "successful" in your mind? Government already (prior to PPACA) spends more per capita on health care than any other country in the world. On top of that, we also spend more private dollars on health care than any other country in the world.

You seem to missing something. Our system cannot be fixed without disruption. In fact, if there is no disruption, you should assume it's making the problem worse.

 

[iguanaman]

If insurance companies were getting fabulously wealthy previously and will continue to do so, and this has contributed to a system in which medical care is astronomically expensive, then where is the money coming from such that this policy is considered "successful" in your mind? Government already (prior to PPACA) spends more per capita on health care than any other country in the world. On top of that, we also spend more private dollars on health care than any other country in the world.

You seem to missing something. Our system cannot be fixed without disruption. In fact, if there is no disruption, you should assume it's making the problem worse.

I agree with you, but I think there is disruption of the old system by the ACA and as you say it is unavoidable.....and much needed.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I agree with you, but I think there is disruption of the old system by the ACA and as you say it is unavoidable.....and much needed.

You agree with me to a point. A small point.

The disruption the ACA causes is disproportionately on middle class families. Everyone else is affected much less significantly. Including the health insurance corporations.

 

[Mycroft]

I agree with you, but I think there is disruption of the old system by the ACA and as you say it is unavoidable.....and much needed.

If the disruption you speak of...and accept so callously...is the result of government attempts to control the free market, then we will never solve our problems.

The proper solution is not the government deciding who bears the brunt of your disruption...it is, instead, the free choices of individuals within the free market. THAT is the only fair solution.

 

[Cephus]

I think everyone would like to see ACA work but it was doomed to fail day 1 and is a Ponzi scheme.

I don't want to see the ACA work, it's designed poorly, it's worse than what we had and it harms the people it was most claimed to help. It takes all of the bad elements from the old health care system and makes them even worse, while adding nothing good. I hope this is a noose that hangs around the Democrat's necks for decades to come.

 

[Linc]

How would that attitude have worked with the disastrous rollout of Medicare Part D
if Dems to a person were intentionally sabotaging instead of working with the GOP..
Things have certainly changed in 8 years..

I don't want to see the ACA work, it's designed poorly,

it's worse than what we had and it harms the people it was most claimed to help.

Those who have been added to Medicaid would beg to differ..

It takes all of the bad elements

and the GOP plan is ________

I hope this is a noose that hangs around the Democrat's necks for decades to come.

The real reason why America is where it is today with toxicity..

 

[American]

How would you change the Reagan law??
What would you do with the future people to be helped by this Reagan law??
Reagan 1: Where would we be without 20 years of this Reagan law..
Reagan 2: What about the amnesty, and the torrential-down after effects..
Reagan 3: The beginning of 400 billion deficits..
Reagan 4: Stopped the 20-year cycle of Presidents dying in office since 1840..
Reagan 5: Signed the first trade-give-away treaty, to Israel..
Reagan 6: Iran/Contra, Beirut
There's plenty more, as you know

People complain about that law all the time, tie it to the reason we need Obamacare. What you're attempting to do is take the attention off of the failure of implementing Obamacare. And btw, this thread isn't about Reagan presidency.

 

[American]

How would that attitude have worked with the disastrous rollout of Medicare Part D
if Dems to a person were intentionally sabotaging instead of working with the GOP..
Things have certainly changed in 8 years..

Those who have been added to Medicaid would beg to differ..

and the GOP plan is ________

The real reason why America is where it is today with toxicity..

You should know, you support the party of politics vs solutions. Obamacare is a prime example of politics over solutions.

 

[Beaudreaux]

People complain about that law all the time, tie it to the reason we need Obamacare. What you're attempting to do is take the attention off of the failure of implementing Obamacare. And btw, this thread isn't about Reagan presidency.

Yeah, but... (the last defense available)