• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you debate US climate change deniers?

The German

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,788
Reaction score
1,697
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I`d like to ask my European colleges specificaly.

Do you engage in debates concerning the subject with US climate change deniers?

We all know that on our lovely continent there is a general consensus on the matter.

Accross party lines everyone agrees to not ignore the scientific facts, and the only ones who argue against the science are to be found on the fringe or people who only have an audience in the US.

It is wonderfull that in our country scientific institutions still have their independence.

I chose not to engage with any US climate change deniers in debate since it would be a pointless exercise. To me it would be like talking to some loath who insists that the earth is flat.

How about you Danes, Romanians, Turks and Brits?
 

Ben K.

DP Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
4,717
Reaction score
1,980
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I`d like to ask my European colleges specificaly.

Do you engage in debates concerning the subject with US climate change deniers?

We all know that on our lovely continent there is a general consensus on the matter.

Accross party lines everyone agrees to not ignore the scientific facts, and the only ones who argue against the science are to be found on the fringe or people who only have an audience in the US.

It is wonderfull that in our country scientific institutions still have their independence.

I chose not to engage with any US climate change deniers in debate since it would be a pointless exercise. To me it would be like talking to some loath who insists that the earth is flat.

How about you Danes, Romanians, Turks and Brits?
Thanks bro.

I did it one time, like I would debate evolution with some. Scientific denial arguments generally mutate faster than bacteria and I'm not particularly interested in the arms race. Remember when it was climate change is not happening at all, then it became it is happening but humans aren't responsible? It's simply too boring to keep up with whatever hole in the theory they think they've found that no scientist in the field had never thought of ever I tells ya!
 

The German

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,788
Reaction score
1,697
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Thanks bro.

I did it one time, like I would debate evolution with some. Scientific denial arguments generally mutate faster than bacteria and I'm not particularly interested in the arms race. Remember when it was climate change is not happening at all, then it became it is happening but humans aren't responsible? It's simply too boring to keep up with whatever hole in the theory they think they've found that no scientist in the field had never thought of ever I tells ya!
yeah that evolution thing....... I would be embaressed to have evolution a "controversial subject" in my country.

In which other countries is it controversial??? Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and such.
 

Geoist

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
17,114
Reaction score
8,633
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
yeah that evolution thing....... I would be embaressed to have evolution a "controversial subject" in my country.

In which other countries is it controversial??? Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and such.
'Merika! :doh
 

German guy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
5,187
Reaction score
4,255
Location
Berlin, Germany
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I don't, unless I have a really bad day and feel suicidal.

But perhaps even debating flat-earthers, geocentrists, chemtrail advocates and HIV deniers is more fun. In a sick kind of way.
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,635
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
It is wonderfull that in our country scientific institutions still have their independence.
That was a good one. Of course, I don't know, where you are, but here there are only very few independent scientific institutes. Most are owned by the state and the researchers are government employees. That is quite the opposite to undepentent.
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
26,907
Reaction score
9,541
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I`d like to ask my European colleges specificaly.

Do you engage in debates concerning the subject with US climate change deniers?

We all know that on our lovely continent there is a general consensus on the matter.

Accross party lines everyone agrees to not ignore the scientific facts, and the only ones who argue against the science are to be found on the fringe or people who only have an audience in the US.

It is wonderfull that in our country scientific institutions still have their independence.

I chose not to engage with any US climate change deniers in debate since it would be a pointless exercise. To me it would be like talking to some loath who insists that the earth is flat.

How about you Danes, Romanians, Turks and Brits?
Other than a few fringe people, I don't think many here actually deny anthropological climate change.
There are people like myself who are skeptical of the alarmist portions of the IPCC's predictions.
But I have no doubt we are changing the climate.
The extent we are changing is an open question.
 

Infinite Chaos

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
18,490
Reaction score
8,579
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
-- I chose not to engage with any US climate change deniers in debate since it would be a pointless exercise. To me it would be like talking to some loath who insists that the earth is flat.

How about you Danes, Romanians, Turks and Brits?
Once I saw that there were the equivalent of "flat-earthers" in the environment change discussion; I just didn't bother to engage. I wouldn't say it's an American only thing though, I remember there being quite a vocal sceptic group over here too which tended not to debate or discuss subject on their websites but to attack the people who wished to discuss the subject.
 

German guy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
5,187
Reaction score
4,255
Location
Berlin, Germany
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
That was a good one. Of course, I don't know, where you are, but here there are only very few independent scientific institutes. Most are owned by the state and the researchers are government employees. That is quite the opposite to undepentent.
Yeah now, that makes perfect sense: The government influences their dependent scientists to scare the people about climate change... just for that suddenly, Green parties rise and environmentalism becomes a strong force, which makes said politicians lose their power and gets them in conflict with their major donators from big business. And that's the reason why politicians in Europe now pretend all the time they're doing something against global warming, but in reality try to use every loophole they find to not do much and to please the oil and car industry instead. That makes perfect sense.
 

ThePlayDrive

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
19,610
Reaction score
7,647
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Do you engage in debates concerning the subject with US climate change deniers?

We all know that on our lovely continent there is a general consensus on the matter.
1. Why are you comparing a country to a continent?
2. Americans' views on climate change are similar to most European countries. Indeed, more Americans take affirmative positions on the impact of climate change than several of those countries. Even further, there doesn't appear to be evidence of a 'clear consensus' on your 'lovely continent'.

Just wanted to shut down another "Europe is so much different than the U.S." myth.

Citation: Climate change opinion by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

German guy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
5,187
Reaction score
4,255
Location
Berlin, Germany
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
1. Why are you comparing a country to a continent?
2. Americans' views on climate change are similar to most European countries. Indeed, more Americans take affirmative positions on the impact of climate change than several of those countries. Even further, there doesn't appear to be evidence of a 'clear consensus' on your 'lovely continent'.

Just wanted to shut down another "Europe is so much different than the U.S." myth.

Citation: Climate change opinion by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Assuming these polls are true, I can only conclude that the major difference between Europe (or at least Western Europe) and the US is that in the US, one of the two major parties denies both scientific consensus and public opinion, and massive amounts of resources go into counterfactual denialism propaganda, which is very visible online.
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,635
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Yeah now, that makes perfect sense: The government influences their dependent scientists to scare the people about climate change... just for that suddenly, Green parties rise and environmentalism becomes a strong force, which makes said politicians lose their power and gets them in conflict with their major donators from big business. And that's the reason why politicians in Europe now pretend all the time they're doing something against global warming, but in reality try to use every loophole they find to not do much and to please the oil and car industry instead. That makes perfect sense.
I think the mechanisms are a little more complex that we see at work in socio-economic groups. What we do see, is an interplay of formal and informal decision making dominated by a high confluence of peer group pressures, homogenous job parameters and life plans etc. Every individual organization will have somewhat different mechanics and usually bureaucratic environments you will find complicated rituals that are hard to discern from outside. But other times they are quite obvious, where subsidies or projects are involved. As the Germans say, if you pay the piper you command the toon, or something like that. It is really very interesting to watch happen.
 

Ben K.

DP Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
4,717
Reaction score
1,980
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
1. Why are you comparing a country to a continent?
2. Americans' views on climate change are similar to most European countries. Indeed, more Americans take affirmative positions on the impact of climate change than several of those countries. Even further, there doesn't appear to be evidence of a 'clear consensus' on your 'lovely continent'.

Just wanted to shut down another "Europe is so much different than the U.S." myth.

Citation: Climate change opinion by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Always click on the reference. The Gallup poll says acceptance of anthropogenic climate change is at a level of 49% in the US. The UK is lower at 48% but the vast majority of European countries have higher acceptance.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117772/Awareness-Opinions-Global-Warming-Vary-Worldwide.aspx
 

Rainman05

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
10,032
Reaction score
4,964
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I have had a few brush-offs with the climate change deniers. It's been an unpleasant experience overall. I can honestly say it is one of the areas of discussion where I don't learn anything from the exchange or gain some insight into the others' POV. they all repeat the same non-sensical bollocks. I think it's the severe misunderstanding of what words mean that drives a lot of them... I think they think that pseudoscience is actual science... but ofc, it's not because "psuedo" means false.

After the last encounter I have decided that they're beyond approach and understanding and that the only solution is to pay no attention to them. I won't waste my time debating such topics further down the line.

I will end by saying that I can understand peoples' positions when they say that they don't want to have this push for green energy because of economic reasons. Ok, I don't respect that position but I can understand it and respect the people upholding it. It makes little sense to me and I find it short sighted but whatever. What I can't understand is people who say we shouldn't go green because climate change don't real. I mean that's just... silly.


It's one of those partisan issues for americans. If they're wrong then the other side is right and they can't be right and bla bla bla bla. It's bollocks.
I think the reason that only some politicians (usually on far left or far right) in Europe are against the scientific fact of climate change and have voiced their opinions on it is because they're being paid by people who have a key interest in not pursuing green energy. It cannot be because of votes. I don't think there are votes in global warming denying and surely if there are, they are like infinitely times fewer than the people who do accept the scientific reality and care about it. So it must be money.. bribes basically or just plain old stupidity.

We are sort of immune in Europe from hyperpartisanism due to the multi party system. You can find, in theory, a political party that will mirror your views more closely than just having 2 main parties and an election system that encourages a 2 party state.

//ofc, a multiparty system only works if there are actual political parties in place instead of just gangs of crooks pretending to be politicians. but that's a corruption issue. But even in my country we are all very much pro-green energy. It's a project that is very popular with the voters, especially the youth which is very eco aware and the former ruling party lived and died by gaining the support of the youth... the current administration is idiotic at best, downright retarded usually... but it too recognizes the importance of keeping green energy investments up (and there are tons of internal and foreign investments) and we have almost 800k people working in green energy in Romania. it was about 600k in 2012 so I think the numbers gone up considerably.

EDIT: spelling errors.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom