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Do you believe January 6 was an “insurrection”?

HonestJoe said:
It certainly wasn't. In fact, I'd go as far as to suggest that more insurrections occurred before hand-held firearms were even invented. :cool:
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They used what weapons were available including pitch forks and torches.
 
markdc said:
As you know, January 6 has been in the news lately, and it looks like Trump will keep his campaign promise to pardon some, most, or all of the J6 defendants once he returns to the Oval Office. I’m curious, do you guys believe J6 was an “insurrection” or not? And do you believe it was right for Democratic states and judges to attempt to kick Trump off the 2024 presidential ballot on the grounds that he violated the 14th Amendment by participating in said “insurrection”?
My personal opinion is that what happened at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021 constituted a riot but NOT an insurrection. To me, a REAL insurrection is what occurred in 1861 when Southern states seceded from the Union, attacked a federal fort, and started a civil war that led to the deaths of over 600k Americans. I also believe that Trump should NOT have been removed from any state ballots in the recent election; my view was that whether or not Trump secured a second term to the presidency should be up to the voters. (FYI: In case you think my opinion on this matter is motivated by persona bias, then know that I didn’t vote for either Trump or Harris in November.)

Mark
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It meets the statute for both insurrection and in some cases seditious conspiracy.

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
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The insurrectionists tried to prevent the democratic process, and announced their intent to lynch the vice president.
 
Sweden said:
You are equally desperate to pretend Trump did engage in an attempted coup. A common feature of coups is getting the military on side before the event. No attempt to do this was made. Nor was another defining characteristic, the occupation and control of media.
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Is that a requirement?
 
Jay59 said:

It was when Colorado attempted to remove Trump from the ballot.
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Thx. The opinion though doesn't say that Congress must declare something an insurrection. Page 10 says just the opposite. On my phone and I can't copy/paste from the opinion but it says after the enactment of the 14th Congress passed a law allowing Federal prosecutors to enforce the ban. That of itself means Congress does not have to declare something an insurrection.
 
It was a riot. I live in the NW yet my wife knew something tumultuous was going to happen that day. How the F didn't they know and prepare for it? I believe they did know. I believe the two pipe bombs were also involved. Think about it. They can trace down some grandma in the background of a selfie from a phone. But they can't trace down who planted the pipe bomb despite having video and the pipe bomb itself.

And there were no undercover agents except the 26 undercover agents we didn't mention. Biden won't pardon his son either.
 
Gaius46 said:
Even inept fools can be insurrectionists
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No one is that inept. No one "forgets" to bring their guns to a violent insurrection intended to overthrow the government and instill someone else.
 
HonestJoe said:
It certainly wasn't. In fact, I'd go as far as to suggest that more insurrections occurred before hand-held firearms were even invented. :cool:
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Fair enough. But it was definitely the first flag pole and buffalo helmet insurrection in history.
 
eman623 said:
Why? They failed.


Projection.
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Just because they failed doesn’t make it alright.

Why wouldn’t a President using the power of the office to attempt to overturn an election not make you mad?
 
Jezcoe said:
Just because they failed doesn’t make it alright.
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Good because I never said it was alright.

Jezcoe said:
Why wouldn’t a President using the power of the office to attempt to overturn an election not make you mad?
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I thought we were talking about the rioters and their motivations. I guess you can't back that up so you fall back on TDS. Typical.
 
Luce said:
It meets the statute for both insurrection and in some cases seditious conspiracy.
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The AG (Garland) didn’t see it that way, thus Trump was never charged with rebellion or insurrection.

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

Luce said:
The insurrectionists tried to prevent the democratic process, and announced their intent to lynch the vice president.
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IIRC, none of them was charged with insurrection, but you be you.
 
markdc said:
As you know, January 6 has been in the news lately, and it looks like Trump will keep his campaign promise to pardon some, most, or all of the J6 defendants once he returns to the Oval Office. I’m curious, do you guys believe J6 was an “insurrection” or not? And do you believe it was right for Democratic states and judges to attempt to kick Trump off the 2024 presidential ballot on the grounds that he violated the 14th Amendment by participating in said “insurrection”?
My personal opinion is that what happened at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021 constituted a riot but NOT an insurrection. To me, a REAL insurrection is what occurred in 1861 when Southern states seceded from the Union, attacked a federal fort, and started a civil war that led to the deaths of over 600k Americans. I also believe that Trump should NOT have been removed from any state ballots in the recent election; my view was that whether or not Trump secured a second term to the presidency should be up to the voters. (FYI: In case you think my opinion on this matter is motivated by persona bias, then know that I didn’t vote for either Trump or Harris in November.)

Mark
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The fact that there were such an incredible-incredible lack of capitol police on hand - this has always smelled of a setup.
THERE ARE 2,300 Capitol Police... yet on this day, there were only a few handful on duty. That is either on purpose, or an unconscious blunder by the entire command.
 
Craig234 said:
It doesn't seem the ruling was about the attack on the Capitol. "The court granted absolute immunity to President Trump’s use of the Justice Department for fraudulent purposes. "
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That would increase the difficulty in inicting him for an insurrection.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The AG (Garland) didn’t see it that way, thus Trump was never charged with rebellion or insurrection
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That's because Garland is a complete *****.

Seriously. Worst AG in living memory.
 
Perotista said:
Section 5 of the 14th states: Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. During the civil war congress did just that, passed legislation declaring the south in a state of insurrection, signed by President Lincoln. Congress didn’t pass any legislation as required by the 14th declaring 1-6 an insurrection. Nor did any of the 91 federal indictments accurse Trump of insurrection and neither did any of the other state civil cases. Neither did the president, DOJ, Homeland Security, the FBI or any other government agency state 1-6 was an insurrection. In my mind, legally, 1-6 wasn’t an insurrection.

I agree, it was a protest that went wrong and turned into a riot. Were the states wrong in attempting to keep Trump off the ballot using the 14th amendment, certainly. Especially since 1-6 didn’t meet the constitutional legal criteria of being an insurrection. I believe the rioters were guilty of trying to stop congress from conducting their official business and in attempting to overturn a legal and legitimate election, election interference.

I can see where those who thought 1-6 was an insurrection as it was an attempt to stop a duly elected president from taking office. An attempt to keep a defeated president from being removed from office and stop the peaceful transfer of power. But the bottom line is congress didn’t do its job via legislation to enforce the provisions of the amendment as required by section 5 to 1-6. Congress did their job during the civil war and thereafter passing numerous laws dealing with the south.

Hence, I classify 1-6 as a riot.
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Agreed.
Any attempt to force any other classification on those events are done purely for political motivations.
Also guess what: The electorate is of the same position / opinion, given the election results.
The left, the Dem's, their MSM propagandists, all which continues to push otherwise, should take note of this.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
OK, we can agree that the Biden/Harris administration failed the country in many ways, but that doesn’t make Trump or the J6 rioters into insurrectionists.
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Nope. They did that to themselves.

They tried to prevent the results of an election from being enacted.

You're okay with that?
 
DrewPaul said:
What do you mean but Hunter? The guy Biden swore he wouldn't pardon but did so anyway? You might have stepped into something you need to wipe off your feet.
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Hunter is your boogie man. With his Pardon he can become one of Trumps ambassadors!!!!
 
Sweden said:
You are equally desperate to pretend Trump did engage in an attempted coup. A common feature of coups is getting the military on side before the event. No attempt to do this was made. Nor was another defining characteristic, the occupation and control of media.
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Trump proved that even idiots attempt coups. Worse yet Trump proved that Americans are stupid enough to vote for an idiot who tried a coup.
 
Remember this classic? Elizabeth from Knoxville was there for the revolution.

 
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