Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc?

[NatMorton]

I think answer is "yes, but." The "but" is coming from the fact that unless you are either a US citizen or an immigrant with permanent status, you are a guest in the United States. I don't think speech from anyone -- including non-citizens -- should ever be a crime, but no one has right to a visa or a green card.

For example, I see no reason why a green card or visa should not be revoked for someone who:

• Preaches that blacks or jews are inferior people.
• That women are best kept as property.
• That terrorism is justified.
• That apostates should be executed by the faithful.

... or the like.

While garbage like this must be tolerated from US citizens, I see no reason to put up with up from a guest. They can still speak their piece, but they can do it from other side of the border.

 

[noonereal]

Conservatives or MAGA? I don’t believe there are many conservatives left. There are like only 3-4 on this site.

Same is true of real Republicans.

 

[Cosmo]

So the French government was lying?

French scientist denied entry into the US, French government says

A French scientist has been denied entry into the United States, apparently because the scientist had expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy, the French Education Ministry said on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

How would I know? There's no name, so nobody can truly research, inquire, or defend themselves where this matter is concerned. Even the article says it merely appears to be the case that this happened for that reason:

PARIS, March 20 (Reuters) - A French scientist has been denied entry into the United States, apparently because the scientist had expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy, the French Education Ministry said on Thursday.

At least the Norwegian stoner story had a name and a face so it could be researched, but of course that didn't work out well for you either because it just led to its debunking.

 

[Yes_Minister]

I think answer is "yes, but." The "but" is coming from the fact that unless you are either a US citizen or an immigrant with permanent status, you are a guest in the United States. I don't think speech from anyone -- including non-citizens -- should ever be a crime, but no one has right to a visa or a green card.

For example, I see no reason why a green card or visa should not be revoked for someone who:

• Preaches that blacks or jews are inferior people.
• That women are best kept as property.
• That terrorism is justified.
• That apostates should be executed by the faithful.

... or the like.

While garbage like this must be tolerated from US citizens, I see no reason to put up with up from a guest. They can still speak their piece, but they can do it from other side of the border.

Okay, were is the line then? If a conservative Canadian or Brit tourists states anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage arguments at a bar, should government agents be able to deport them right away if a Democrat was President? Do you think the government should send tourists to ICE detention camps?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

Do you think Canada or UK should deport American tourists if they express an unpopular opinion at a bar?

 

[Yes_Minister]

How would I know? There's no name, so nobody can truly research, inquire, or defend themselves where this matter is concerned. Even the article says it merely appears to be the case that this happened for that reason:

At least the Norwegian stoner story had a name and a face so it could be researched, but of course that didn't work out well for you either because it just led to its debunking.

So why is the French government saying this if it's not true? Maybe the scientist doesn't want his name paper, I doubt the French government is lying about this.

And what about putting tourists in ICE detention camps, is that fine with you?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

You say there is no problem, but ignore that people in other countries are being advised to bring burner phones to the US:

Border fears lead Canadian firms to advise burner phones, clean computers, travel bans

Concerns about electronic privacy and client information amid device checks at the U.S. border are rising. Find out more.

financialpost.com

 

[Cosmo]

Okay, were is the line then? If a conservative Canadian or Brit tourists states anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage arguments at a bar, should government agents be able to deport them right away

Is that what's actually happening?

if a Democrat was President? Do you think the government should send tourists to ICE detention camps?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

Do you think Canada or UK should deport American tourists if they express an unpopular opinion at a bar?

 

[NatMorton]

Okay, were is the line then? If a conservative Canadian or Brit tourists states anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage arguments at a bar, should government agents be able to deport them right away if a Democrat was President? Do you think the government should send tourists to ICE detention camps?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

Do you think Canada or UK should deport American tourists if they express an unpopular opinion at a bar?

That is a fair question. I know I do not want the line drawn at the whim of the Executive branch. I would prefer Congress establish criteria and empower the judiciary to make decisions on a case-by-case basis. It would be similar to the legal process used to define and adjudicate hate crimes.

And I've said what I think the penalty should be, so you can unbait your book.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Is that what's actually happening?

No, I was asking where the line was and gave a hypothetical situation.

 

[bythoughts]

“If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student, and you tell us that the reason why you're coming to the United States is not just because you want to write op-eds, but because you want to participate in movements that are involved in doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus, we're not going to give you a visa. If you lie to us and get a visa then enter the United States, and with that visa, participate in that sort of activity, we're going to take away your visa.”

This is ... dis-in-gen-u-ous. Like, I'm not saying it's lying, just that you need to understand he said like. Ask Rumeysa Ozturk. Like...

• Calling for the college administration to respect a Student Senate resolution is LIKE making that resolution yourself.
• A resolution to divest from Israeli companies is LIKE a resolution to criticize Israeli companies.
• Criticizing Israeli companies is LIKE criticizing Israel.
• Criticizing Israel is LIKE criticizing Israeli students
• Criticizing Israeli students is LIKE harassing Israeli students.
• ... and nobody could support anything LIKE that, right? Best way to fix it is to harass the Turkish students FIRST, eh?

 

[Cosmo]

So why is the French government saying this if it's not true?

Saying what? That something appears some way? Maybe because he told them so, and absent any other information, they're humoring him with their limp-wristed "appears"-qualified statement.

Maybe the scientist doesn't want his name paper, I doubt the French government is lying about this.

Who says they're lying? It sounds like they don't really know either, hence the statement was qualified to be more or less meaningless.

And what about putting tourists in ICE detention camps, is that fine with you?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

A "tourist" traveling with tattoo equipment who happens to be a professional tattoo artist?

No, I was asking where the line was and gave a hypothetical situation.

Where's "the line" for how many times you can insult the host and shit on his rug before you get kicked out of the party? Maybe guests should act like guests, be honest on their visa applications, and not push the envelope to see what they can get away with when visiting.

 

[phoenix2020]

I think answer is "yes, but." The "but" is coming from the fact that unless you are either a US citizen or an immigrant with permanent status, you are a guest in the United States. I don't think speech from anyone -- including non-citizens -- should ever be a crime, but no one has right to a visa or a green card.

For example, I see no reason why a green card or visa should not be revoked for someone who:

• Preaches that blacks or jews are inferior people.
• That women are best kept as property.
• That terrorism is justified.
• That apostates should be executed by the faithful.

... or the like.

While garbage like this must be tolerated from US citizens, I see no reason to put up with up from a guest. They can still speak their piece, but they can do it from other side of the border.

If a green card holder expresses a personal opinion that he or she thought Kamala Harris was the best choice for the Presidency, would you consider that reasonable grounds for revocation? If Donald decided that it was sufficient grounds, would you agree or disagree? And, if you were to disagree, would you lift a finger to do anything about it, or directly confront MAGA who feel differently than you?

 

[NatMorton]

If a green card holder expresses a personal opinion that he or she thought Kamala Harris was the best choice for the Presidency, would you consider that reasonable grounds for revocation? If Donald decided that it was sufficient grounds, would you agree or disagree? And, if you were to disagree, would you lift a finger to do anything about it, or directly confront MAGA who feel differently than you?

Your questions are answered by what I wrote in that post and in post #32.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Saying what? That something appears some way? Maybe because he told them so, and absent any other information, they're humoring him with their limp-wristed "appears"-qualified statement.

Who says they're lying? It sounds like they don't really know either, hence the statement was qualified to be more or less meaningless.

So French government is so reckless and incompetent that they didn't look this themselves and just released this statement without doing any research into this? Okay.

A "tourist" traveling with tattoo equipment who happens to be a professional tattoo artist?

Yeah and that's crime worthy of being put into isolation for several days, okay.

Where's "the line" for how many times you can insult the host and shit on his rug before you get kicked out of the party? Maybe guests should act like guests, be honest on their visa applications, and not push the envelope to see what they can get away with when visiting.

So do you think during an Democratic administration, people should be turned away or deported if they opposed abortion or gay marriage

Also why are lawyers in other countries advising people to bring burner phones in the US?

Border fears lead Canadian firms to advise burner phones, clean computers, travel bans

Concerns about electronic privacy and client information amid device checks at the U.S. border are rising. Find out more.

financialpost.com

 

[phoenix2020]

Your questions are answered by what I wrote in that post and in post #32.

Thanks. You didn’t answer my final and most important question, which is whether you’d actually act in any way if the executive branch decide to make these decisions on a whim, but I think there is no need to answer since we already know.

 

[NatMorton]

Thanks. You didn’t answer my final and most important question, which is whether you’d actually act in any way if the executive branch decide to make these decisions on a whim, but I think there is no need to answer since we already know.

I spoke about what I support and what I would oppose. I have no interest in how you define "actually act."

 

[phoenix2020]

I spoke about what I support and what I would oppose. I have no interest in how you define "actually act."

Like I said, we already know that Donald can do whatever he wants and you’re not going to lift a finger to stop him. You don’t need to tell us.

 

[NatMorton]

Like I said, we already know that Donald can do whatever he wants and you’re not going to lift a finger to stop him. You don’t need to tell us.

No, that's what you want me to say. Your problem is that I'm not saying it. You are.

 

[phoenix2020]

No, that's what you want me to say. Your problem is that I'm not saying it. You are.

Why would I want you to say anything in the first place? Why would anyone?

 

[bythoughts]

A "tourist" traveling with tattoo equipment who happens to be a professional tattoo artist?

While I'm loath to draw the parallel due to my disrespect for this "art", this is like an artist travelling with paintbrushes and an easel, or a journalist travelling with a camera and a notebook, or a writer travelling with a laptop. So those other folks better get ready to have some formative experiences to inspire their art, no?

 

[NatMorton]

Why would I want you to say anything in the first place? Why would anyone?

Why? I can only guess, but here's my guess. You want me to say I'd give this power to Trump so that you can say what horrible a person I am and, as a consequence of you calling me out, demonstrate what a good person you are. It's the same emotional insecurity that drives so much of left-wing political argument. In short, you're itching to virtue signal.

So sorry, you'll need to find someplace else to scratch.

 

[phoenix2020]

Why? I can only guess, but here's my guess. You want me to say I'd give this power to Trump so that you can say what horrible a person I am and, as a consequence of you calling me out, demonstrate what a good person you are. It's the same emotional insecurity that drives so much of left-wing political argument. In short, you're itching to virtue signal.

So sorry, you'll need to find someplace else to scratch.

You guessed wrong. I really don't care what you will say or not say, because I already know that no matter what Donald does, you will not show the strength of will to cross him. You'll either quietly express a dissenting opinion to nobody in particular, stay quiet, or deflect to some Other. If Trump takes this power, no one believes that the likes of you would actually stand up to him.

 

[justoneman]

Conservatives or MAGA? I don’t believe there are many conservatives left. There are like only 3-4 on this site.

MAGA are conservative. What you like are Neocons.

 

[LouC]

Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc?​

Not all, but some do!

 

[phoenix2020]

MAGA are conservative. What you like are Neocons.

MAGA are not conservative. They do not believe in fiscal conservatism, family values, strong relationships with allied partners, keeping government out of private business, state rights, nor the Constitution. They only believe whatever Donald tells them to believe. If he tells you that adultery is no big deal, you'll begin proclaiming that people should just chill out about adultery. If he tells you that the debt must explode in order to have a Big Beautiful Bill, you'll thank him. If he destroys our relationships with all of our allies, you'll say "omg everybody, 5D chess!"

Basically, it's best not to assign any particular political or policy position to a MAGA since they're functionally more akin to photocopiers, simply making copies of whatever Stephen Miller has Donald feed into their input tray. Take, for example, @justoneman: whatever Donald tells him to believe in and support, he promptly believes in and supports.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc? Do people who are in the US and not citizens have free speech rights? Because, according to Tim Pool, they shouldn't have those rights:



Is Tim Pool not a ''free speech absolutist" then?

Why are these people shouting?