Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc?

[justoneman]

MAGA are not conservative. They do not believe in fiscal conservatism, family values, strong relationships with allied partners, keeping government out of private business, state rights, nor the Constitution.

I totally believe in those things. You are mistaken about what I believe.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Yes, free speech applies.

As does this:

“If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student, and you tell us that the reason why you're coming to the United States is not just because you want to write op-eds, but because you want to participate in movements that are involved in doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus, we're not going to give you a visa. If you lie to us and get a visa then enter the United States, and with that visa, participate in that sort of activity, we're going to take away your visa.”​

Marco Rubio says 300 student visas have been revoked, including detentions at Tufts, Columbia and more

The comments come amid two more high-profile detentions by ICE of a Tufts University student and a University of Alabama student.

www.cbsnews.com

So "freedom" is just a word.

"Immigrants" cannot become involved in the political scene. You're going to ban everyone who isn't MAGA?

What's next? Only white people can vote?

 

[Fearandloathing]

Conservatives or MAGA? I don’t believe there are many conservatives left. There are like only 3-4 on this site.

After reading your post I find I am no longer able to distinguish between MAGA and Conservative.

 

[justoneman]

So "freedom" is just a word.

"Immigrants" cannot become involved in the political scene. You're going to ban everyone who isn't MAGA?

What's next? Only white people can vote?

Visitors to the US do not have the same rights as citizens. When a legal immigrant becomes naturalized they take an oath to the constitution.

 

[Tangmo]

Visitors to the US do not have the same rights as citizens. When a legal immigrant becomes naturalized they take an oath to the constitution.

It's then Trumpolini has 'em dragged off and alligatorized.

After all, it's 3000 daily or bust.

After a while longer Trumph may have Native Americans thrown in just to build the numbers. Imagine the things the Generalissimo can say about them eh. Nothing about Trumph is beyond the pale.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Why are these people shouting?

Which people, Sam Sedar and Emma Vigeland or Tim Pool and Adam Conover?

 

[Yes_Minister]

Visitors to the US do not have the same rights as citizens. When a legal immigrant becomes naturalized they take an oath to the constitution.

Okay, so does freedom of speech not apply tourists or foreign students? Can tourists or foreign students be deported or sent to ICE detention camps if they say anything the government doesn't like?

Would be fine if Canada or the UK deported American tourists because they said something they didn't like or sent them to a detention camp?

 

[Cosmo]

So French government is so reckless and incompetent that they didn't look this themselves and just released this statement without doing any research into this? Okay.

It's a meaningless statement regarding a nothingburger.

The French gave it more attention than it was worth.

Yeah and that's crime worthy of being put into isolation for several days, okay.

They reasonably suspected her of lying on her visa, so they detained her until they figured out what was going on. WTF else were they supposed to do?

So do you think during an Democratic administration, people should be turned away or deported if they opposed abortion or gay marriage

But that's not what's happening. We already established that in post #33. Give you sensationalism a rest.

Also why are lawyers in other countries advising people to bring burner phones in the US?

Border fears lead Canadian firms to advise burner phones, clean computers, travel bans

Concerns about electronic privacy and client information amid device checks at the U.S. border are rising. Find out more.

financialpost.com

Probably melting down over the bad orange man and embellishing things like you are.

 

[Cosmo]

While I'm loath to draw the parallel due to my disrespect for this "art", this is like an artist travelling with paintbrushes and an easel, or a journalist travelling with a camera and a notebook, or a writer travelling with a laptop. So those other folks better get ready to have some formative experiences to inspire their art, no?

I'd say it's more like a welder traveling with this:

 

[justoneman]

It's then Trumpolini has 'em dragged off and alligatorized.

After all, it's 3000 daily or bust.

After a while longer Trumph may have Native Americans thrown in just to build the numbers. Imagine the things the Generalissimo can say about them eh. Nothing about Trumph is beyond the pale.

You have lots of drama.Try to relax.

 

[multivita-man]

Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc? Do people who are in the US and not citizens have free speech rights? Because, according to Tim Pool, they shouldn't have those rights:



Is Tim Pool not a ''free speech absolutist" then?

I can't stand that annoying ****er.

 

[justoneman]

Okay, so does freedom of speech not apply tourists or foreign students? Can tourists or foreign students be deported or sent to ICE detention camps if they say anything the government doesn't like?

Would be fine if Canada or the UK deported American tourists because they said something they didn't like or sent them to a detention camp?

Yes foreign tourists and students can be deported. Anybody overstaying a visa can be deported. This is true of US citizens in foreign countries as well.

 

[Yes_Minister]

It's a meaningless statement regarding a nothingburger.

The French gave it more attention than it was worth.

So are you saying the French government is lying or are you saying they are incompetent? A government statement is not nothing, despite your attempts to have wave it.

They reasonably suspected her of lying on her visa, so they detained her until they figured out what was going on. WTF else were they supposed to do?

Send her back to Germany? Don't put her in an camp and put her in isolation until she loses it and starts punching the walls?

How about don't make conditions so bad in these camps that people die in them?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-ice-detention-1.7577584

But that's not what's happening. We already established that in post #33. Give you sensationalism a rest.

Do you know what a hypothetical situation is?

Probably melting down over the bad orange man and embellishing things like you are.

Yeah, I am sure that's it, actual law firms have nothing better to do.

It's not like you are putting foreign visitors into detention camps:

Redirect Notice

 

[Bullseye]

Take your pick, if the conservative movement allowed itself to be swallowed by MAGA, they deserve some of the blame for allowing that to happen, they shouldn't get off scot free.

You're never going to it correct getting your info from the LW propaganda squad, aka legacy media.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Yes foreign tourists and students can be deported. Anybody overstaying a visa can be deported. This is true of US citizens in foreign countries as well.

Okay, so would you be fine with a Democratic President having Canadian or British tourists kicked out of the county for making anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage statements in a bar? Do you think Americans who make fun of British or Canadian Prime Ministers should be denied entry to those countries?

Okay, do you think foreign visitors should be put into ICE detention camps and subjected to isolation or die in these camps?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-ice-detention-1.7577584

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

You really don't want people to visit if that is the case.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Take your pick, if the conservative movement allowed itself to be swallowed by MAGA, they deserve some of the blame for allowing that to happen, they shouldn't get off scot free.

I give a pass to conservatives that walked away from Trump.

 

[Yes_Minister]

You're never going to it correct getting your info from the LW propaganda squad, aka legacy media.

Oh really, so German and Canadian visitors haven't been put into ICE detention camps?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

Canadian woman detained by ICE being used as ‘example,’ immigration experts warn | Globalnews.ca

Len Saunders, an immigration lawyer in Blaine, told Global News that he is not Mooney's lawyer but he did speak to her a few weeks ago after being referred by a fellow client.

globalnews.ca

How do you figure that?

 

[Hamish Howl]

You're never going to it correct getting your info from the LW propaganda squad, aka legacy media.

Needs more tinfoil.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Oh really, so German and Canadian visitors haven't been put into ICE detention camps?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

Canadian woman detained by ICE being used as ‘example,’ immigration experts warn | Globalnews.ca

Len Saunders, an immigration lawyer in Blaine, told Global News that he is not Mooney's lawyer but he did speak to her a few weeks ago after being referred by a fellow client.

globalnews.ca

How do you figure that?

Maybe Canada some make some examples.

 

[multivita-man]

I think answer is "yes, but." The "but" is coming from the fact that unless you are either a US citizen or an immigrant with permanent status, you are a guest in the United States. I don't think speech from anyone -- including non-citizens -- should ever be a crime, but no one has right to a visa or a green card.

For example, I see no reason why a green card or visa should not be revoked for someone who:

• Preaches that blacks or jews are inferior people.
• That women are best kept as property.
• That terrorism is justified.
• That apostates should be executed by the faithful.

But citizens can, so why can't non-citizens? I mean if they are otherwise law-abiding?

 

[Bullseye]

Needs more tinfoil.

Yes yuh does.

 

[Cosmo]

So are you saying the French government is lying

I already answered this question. Sounds like you just want to keep whining and asking questions over and over about this and not interested in a real discussion.

or are you saying they are incompetent? A government statement is not nothing, despite your attempts to have wave it.


Send her back to Germany? Don't put her in an camp and put her in isolation until she loses it and starts punching the walls?

How about don't make conditions so bad in these camps that people die in them?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-ice-detention-1.7577584

She didn't die. Sounds like she has some behavioral problems, though. Maybe she should have been sent to a padded room instead while they figured out whether to charge her or not. You know visa fraud is a serious crime, right?

Whoever knowingly makes under oath, or as permitted under penalty of perjury under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, knowingly subscribes as true, any false statement with respect to a material fact in any application, affidavit, or other document required by the immigration laws or regulations prescribed thereunder, or knowingly presents any such application, affidavit, or other document which contains any such false statement or which fails to contain any reasonable basis in law or fact-
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 25 years (if the offense was committed to facilitate an act of international terrorism (as defined in section 2331 of this title)), 20 years (if the offense was committed to facilitate a drug trafficking crime (as defined in section 929(a) of this title)), 10 years (in the case of the first or second such offense, if the offense was not committed to facilitate such an act of international terrorism or a drug trafficking crime), or 15 years (in the case of any other offense), or both.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section1546&num=0&edition=prelim

And you're whining about a few days in detention!

Do you know what a hypothetical situation is?

Your hypothetical about a Dem government rejecting visas for holding anti-Dem views would only be worth discussing if there was a Republican government rejecting visas for holding anti-Republican views, but we already established that's not what's happening, so your hypothetical is stupid and irrelevant.

Yeah, I am sure that's it, actual law firms have nothing better to do.

It's not like you are putting foreign visitors into detention camps:

Redirect Notice

Some of them, yeah. And?

 

[Yes_Minister]

I already answered this question. Sounds like you just want to keep whining and asking questions over and over about this and not interested in a real discussion.

I think you are coming up with reasons to reject examples you don't like.

She didn't die. Sounds like she has some behavioral problems, though. Maybe she should have been sent to a padded room instead while they figured out whether to charge her or not. You know visa fraud is a serious crime, right?

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section1546&num=0&edition=prelim

And you're whining about a few days in detention!

Yeah, that's a walk in the park eh?

The research is clear: Solitary confinement causes long-lasting harm

At the International Symposium on Solitary Confinement, researchers and formerly incarcerated people made it clear that isolation causes severe and permanent damage.

www.prisonpolicy.org

Also a Canadian did die in an ICE camp:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-ice-detention-1.7577584

Would you be fine if an American tourists were put in similar camps in Canada or Germany?

Your hypothetical about a Dem government rejecting visas for holding anti-Dem views would only be worth discussing if there was a Republican government rejecting visas for holding anti-Republican views, but we already established that's not what's happening, so your hypothetical is stupid and irrelevant.

I think asking where the line is useful.

Some of them, yeah. And?

Uh huh and how safe are those camps, if you have prisoners die or have mental breakdowns due to isolation?

 

[justoneman]

Okay, so would you be fine with a Democratic President having Canadian or British tourists kicked out of the county for making anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage statements in a bar? Do you think Americans who make fun of British or Canadian Prime Ministers should be denied entry to those countries?

Okay, do you think foreign visitors should be put into ICE detention camps and subjected to isolation or die in these camps?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-ice-detention-1.7577584

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

You really don't want people to visit if that is the case.

I think it would be fine kicking a foreign visitor out who burning an American flag in public protest.

 

[Cosmo]

I think you are coming up with reasons to reject examples you don't like.

I literally answered your question about the French lying. You don't like the answer, so you keep playing with false dichotomies.

Yeah, that's a walk in the park eh?

The research is clear: Solitary confinement causes long-lasting harm

At the International Symposium on Solitary Confinement, researchers and formerly incarcerated people made it clear that isolation causes severe and permanent damage.

www.prisonpolicy.org

Also a Canadian did die in an ICE camp:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-ice-detention-1.7577584

Who said it was a walk in the park? It's detention. It is what it is. And people die all the time. Why do you assume the detention caused it?

Would you be fine if an American tourists were put in similar camps in Canada or Germany?

Depends on what they did. It's not like Americans had immunity from local law when traveling abroad before.

I think asking where the line is useful.

Yeah, if you're gonna push the envelope. There might not be such a fine line. I guess it's sort of like asking if you'll get pulled over for going 4 miles over the limit or 5.

Uh huh and how safe are those camps, if you have prisoners die or have mental breakdowns due to isolation?

Depends on what they died of obviously. Your link says it's "under investigation."