DNA collection from arrestees starts Tuesday in North Carolina

[Temporal]

STOP
MAKING
STUFF
UP.

STOP
TALKING
OUT
OF
YOUR
ASS.

Wow, you are the worst debater I've ever met online. And you're a cop? I feel really sorry for whoever has to deal with you.

 

[Caine]

STOP
TALKING
OUT
OF
YOUR
ASS.

Wow, you are the worst debater I've ever met online. And you're a cop? I feel really sorry for whoever has to deal with you.

^^ Example of true skills in debating apparently... *shrug*

If making stuff up doesn't work...... just curse at them and say they suck.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Moderator's Warning:

Let's all take a breather and remind ourselves that we're all grown-ups here, shall we?

 

[Kal'Stang]

I don't care what DNA is useful for. The government has no business saving the DNA of innocent people. None. Notta. ZIP. In the US the motto is "innoncent until proven guilty" not "innocent but we'll treat you like a criminal until the day you die and then some".

What if someone WANTS to remain anonymous? Not because of anything illegal but because they simply do not wish to be known...ever. No one has a right to force that person to be known without lawfully needing to.

 

[whysoserious]

how is having your DNA on file losing your rights? what right are we talking about here? the right to commit a crime and not worry about being caught due to DNA evidence? I think they should have everyone's DNA on file. take the sample at birth.

What happened to innocent unless proven guilty?

 

[digsbe]

Having DNA on file doesn't incriminate anyone who is innocent. You aren't losing any rights and I see nothing wrong with it. It would aid in finding justice.

 

[tlmorg02]

If anything I see this as protection for those who may be facing deathrow. How many have been set-free and saved from the death penalty due to DNA.

 

[whysoserious]

Having DNA on file doesn't incriminate anyone who is innocent. You aren't losing any rights and I see nothing wrong with it. It would aid in finding justice.

Neither does searching your house randomly. If you didn't do anything, there is no reason for you to worry. You also should be able to have your phone tapped, your house surveilled, and your finances monitored.

At what point does giving up freedom for security end?

If anything I see this as protection for those who may be facing deathrow. How many have been set-free and saved from the death penalty due to DNA.

Which is the problem of those who advocate for death row... not the problem of those who advocate for civil rights. Our rights should not be infringed upon just because our justice system has a problem with convicting innocent people and sentencing them to death.

Fix the justice system.

 

[Ikari]

Having DNA on file doesn't incriminate anyone who is innocent. You aren't losing any rights and I see nothing wrong with it. It would aid in finding justice.

Ahh, the old "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" argument. It's the last resort argument for tyranny.

 

[OscarB63]

How is having your DNA on file any worse than having your birth certificate or social security number on file? from a practical standpoint

 

[Ikari]

What happened to innocent unless proven guilty?

What ever happened to "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."?

 

[tlmorg02]

Neither does searching your house randomly. If you didn't do anything, there is no reason for you to worry. You also should be able to have your phone tapped, your house surveilled, and your finances monitored.

At what point does giving up freedom for security end?



Which is the problem of those who advocate for death row... not the problem of those who advocate for civil rights. Our rights should not be infringed upon just because our justice system has a problem with convicting innocent people and sentencing them to death.

Fix the justice system.

What do fear will happen? Some of that imaginary "framing" that happened to OJ Simpson?

 

[whysoserious]

How is having your DNA on file any worse than having your birth certificate or social security number on file? from a practical standpoint

How is a piece of paper different from a biological piece of information that displays basically everything about you? There is nothing more invasive that your DNA.

What do fear will happen? Some of that imaginary "framing" that happened to OJ Simpson?

So you are not concerned about your Constitutional rights at all? Let's not candy coat it. You either care about illegal search and seizure or you don't.

 

[tlmorg02]

How is a piece of paper different from a biological piece of information that displays basically everything about you? There is nothing more invasive that your DNA.



So you are not concerned about your Constitutional rights at all? Let's not candy coat it. You either care about illegal search and seizure or you don't.

How is it an illegal search and seizure if you are already arrested for the crime?

 

[Caine]

I don't care what DNA is useful for. The government has no business saving the DNA of innocent people. None. Notta. ZIP. In the US the motto is "innoncent until proven guilty" not "innocent but we'll treat you like a criminal until the day you die and then some".

What if someone WANTS to remain anonymous? Not because of anything illegal but because they simply do not wish to be known...ever. No one has a right to force that person to be known without lawfully needing to.

What business does the government have saving DNA of people convicted of crimes?

Ive yet to see anyone answer that question.

Why the standard of conviction at all?

 

[Caine]

Having DNA on file doesn't incriminate anyone who is innocent. You aren't losing any rights and I see nothing wrong with it. It would aid in finding justice.

And I have a feeling that the creation of this law has alot to do with the wrongs that were done to several high profile cases recently in which guys were held for 20+ some years here in North Carolina only to have DNA evidence prove them innocent and someone else guilty due to the fact that the DNA evidence was collected from a more recent case that wasn't avaliable 20+ years ago.

 

[Caine]

Neither does searching your house randomly. If you didn't do anything, there is no reason for you to worry. You also should be able to have your phone tapped, your house surveilled, and your finances monitored.

At what point does giving up freedom for security end?



Which is the problem of those who advocate for death row... not the problem of those who advocate for civil rights. Our rights should not be infringed upon just because our justice system has a problem with convicting innocent people and sentencing them to death.

Fix the justice system.

Here we go again with the making stuff up responses.

This is getting tired.

EDIT: Having your home searched, you are losing privacy, finances tapped same thing, phone tapped same thing, house surveilled? That can happen without a warrant. I see nothing "private" about one's DNA. If you wish to show me exactly what is so private about DNA other than repeating the "Its my genetic code" blanket and unhelpful response go for it.

 

[Caine]

Ahh, the old "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" argument. It's the last resort argument for tyranny.

Blanket and Generic statements about tyranny, as well as reaching far and wide for these "slippery slope" arguments like the one "whysoserious" and you have made are also last resort arguments for people who can't find a more solid reason to have a problem with this.

 

[whysoserious]

How is it an illegal search and seizure if you are already arrested for the crime?

Because the person has not been convicted. If they need to test for DNA, that's fine, but why keep it on file? That seems pretty illegitimate to me. Again, until convicted, they are innocent, so why does the state get to keep the DNA?

They don't get to keep access to the accused computer after a trial, do they? If you are accused and exonerated of a crime, do you think the searches should be allowed to continue?

Here we go again with the making stuff up responses.

This is getting tired.

EDIT: Having your home searched, you are losing privacy, finances tapped same thing, phone tapped same thing, house surveilled? That can happen without a warrant. I see nothing "private" about one's DNA. If you wish to show me exactly what is so private about DNA other than repeating the "Its my genetic code" blanket and unhelpful response go for it.

I would say it is a piece of me as an individual is part of my property. Once I have been exonerated anything you took from me for the trial needs to be disposed of or given back.

If it is not private, then you wouldn't be opposed to taking everyone's DNA and fingerprints at birth?

 

[Ikari]

Blanket and Generic statements about tyranny, as well as reaching far and wide for these "slippery slope" arguments like the one "whysoserious" and you have made are also last resort arguments for people who can't find a more solid reason to have a problem with this.

I'm still waiting for the solid reason. The only reason I've been given is "if I'm not doing anything wrong, I don't have to worry about it", which is not valid reason.

 

[OscarB63]

I'm still waiting for the solid reason. The only reason I've been given is "if I'm not doing anything wrong, I don't have to worry about it", which is not valid reason.

it would go a long way to eliminate Jane/John Doe. Guy shows up in the ER, amnesia. run his DNA and presto, one missing persons case solved/avoided

 

[Caine]

I'm still waiting for the solid reason. The only reason I've been given is "if I'm not doing anything wrong, I don't have to worry about it", which is not valid reason.

The fact that the collection of the DNA can prevent false convictions of someone who is innocent, allow for solid evidence against an individual who has committed a violent crime, as well as help to identify missing/deceased individuals who would otherwise not be identified so that the necessary family notifications can be made and/or missing person recoveries can be made.

Plenty of positive outcomes can be made from a DNA database.

 

[whysoserious]

The fact that the collection of the DNA can prevent false convictions of someone who is innocent, allow for solid evidence against an individual who has committed a violent crime, as well as help to identify missing/deceased individuals who would otherwise not be identified so that the necessary family notifications can be made and/or missing person recoveries can be made.

Plenty of positive outcomes can be made from a DNA database.

You know what else can fix false convictions? A better justice system. Work on that before you start to infringe on people's privacy. Why should they get to keep my DNA when I was exonerated? Explain that please.

 

[OscarB63]

You know what else can fix false convictions? A better justice system. Work on that before you start to infringe on people's privacy. Why should they get to keep my DNA when I was exonerated? Explain that please.

why should the military get to keep mine when I have never been charged, let alone convicted? and yet, you don't see me wetting myself and crying over it.

your DNA is hardly "private", you leave it everywhere in the course of a typical day's activities.

having your DNA on file does not infringe on your privacy in any meaningful way. no more so than forcing you to have a photo ID to operate a motor vehicle.

 

[Caine]

You know what else can fix false convictions? A better justice system. Work on that before you start to infringe on people's privacy. Why should they get to keep my DNA when I was exonerated? Explain that please.

"A Better Justice System" says nothing of the 'HOW' that you proposed. Its a blanket generic statement with no specifics.

So I have one better.

You know what else can fix false convictions? A society whose members do not commit violent crimes against one another.

BOOM!

My generic, no-meaning blanket statement trumps yours! I WIN!


As to the other part....... Are you illiterate? I don't mean that as an insult I just ask because Im certain Ive asked many people over the course of this thread topic to please read what they are debating about.
Go back and read the procedures for removal of ones DNA from the database in the event that the charges were dismissed or the individual was found not guilty.

Through reading, not making assumptions based upon your own negative feelings on the issue, will you find the answers.