Dixie Chicks fly to No. 1 in first full week of album sales

[Navy Pride]

You are trying to make the same comparison and it is STILL incorrect. If China had bases here and Americans were pissed off about it, we would be targeting the Chinese bases, NOT American men, women, and children. The fact that the majority of attacks in Iraq are against Iraqi men, women, and children shows either that the terrorists sole motivation isn't driving the Americans out, or that they are just really, really stupid.

Kelzie you are right on the mark on this one.......:cheers:

 

[Thorgasm]

You are trying to make the same comparison and it is STILL incorrect. If China had bases here and Americans were pissed off about it, we would be targeting the Chinese bases, NOT American men, women, and children. The fact that the majority of attacks in Iraq are against Iraqi men, women, and children shows either that the terrorists sole motivation isn't driving the Americans out, or that they are just really, really stupid.

Kelzie, follow me here, please. Americans do attack Americans. You can look to organized crime of the 20th century or the urban street gangs and see this. It is a tactic of intimidation and violence in order to control their "turf". People don't testify in the ghetto because they know what will happen to them and their families if they do. The terrorists do the same thing with places we have tried to report progress. They look at the Iraqis who cooperate with our troops and our press as enemy sympathizers. They impose the death penalty instead of nicknames like "Hanoi Jane".

This all goes to support their primary goal of gaining control on their "turf". Whether or not they are indiginous to said turf doesn't matter. They are trying to take control of the turf and justify it with religious propaganda. Their ultimate goal is to take control of Iraq. Pushing us out is mandatory in order to accomplish that as we won't allow it to happen.

Americans most certainly would attack other Americans that were allowing the Chinese to control us. By intimidating with violence sympathizers would be less likely to cooperate with the invading force. I have already shown this has happened in our country on a small scale. I haven't even gone back to the revolutionary war for this.

 

[Thorgasm]

I can tell you one thing, If criticizing your country over and over in a time of war is not giving aid and comfort to the enemy then why Did General Giap of the NVN make Kerry a national hero in 1971

Propaganda purposes is why. "Propaganda" is english for "bullchit". Propaganda doesn't arm troops, feed troops, or give them any advantage whatsoever.

 

[Navy Pride]

Propaganda purposes is why. "Propaganda" is english for "bullchit". Propaganda doesn't arm troops, feed troops, or give them any advantage whatsoever.

Yeah, right.........Is that the best comeback you got?:rofl

 

[Thorgasm]

Yeah, right.........Is that the best comeback you got?:rofl

Why are you hinting that Kerry was a double-agent? Let me guess, you don't have to support that claim, it is widely acknowledged.:rofl

 

[Navy Pride]

Why are you hinting that Kerry was a double-agent? Let me guess, you don't have to support that claim, it is widely acknowledged.:rofl

I don't think Kerry was a double agent..I think he was a traitor to 2,000,000 Vets that served in Nam...............

 

[Thorgasm]

I don't think Kerry was a double agent..I think he was a traitor to 2,000,000 Vets that served in Nam...............

And why wasn't he tried for treason?:roll:

You said: "The bottom line is our troops involved in this incident deserve the presumption of innocence until proven guilty and to say otherwise is outrageous".

You wouldn't be upholding a double-standard here would you? Let me guess, liberals are guilty until proven innocent. :roll:

 

[Navy Pride]

And why wasn't he tried for treason?:roll:

You said: "The bottom line is our troops involved in this incident deserve the presumption of innocence until proven guilty and to say otherwise is outrageous".

You wouldn't be upholding a double-standard here would you? Let me guess, liberals are guilty until proven innocent. :roll:

I can't answer that question but Kerry should have either been charged with lying under oath or crimes against humanity for his testimony in front of the Congress in 1971.............

 

[Kelzie]

Kelzie, follow me here, please. Americans do attack Americans. You can look to organized crime of the 20th century or the urban street gangs and see this. It is a tactic of intimidation and violence in order to control their "turf". People don't testify in the ghetto because they know what will happen to them and their families if they do. The terrorists do the same thing with places we have tried to report progress. They look at the Iraqis who cooperate with our troops and our press as enemy sympathizers. They impose the death penalty instead of nicknames like "Hanoi Jane".

This all goes to support their primary goal of gaining control on their "turf". Whether or not they are indiginous to said turf doesn't matter. They are trying to take control of the turf and justify it with religious propaganda. Their ultimate goal is to take control of Iraq. Pushing us out is mandatory in order to accomplish that as we won't allow it to happen.

Americans most certainly would attack other Americans that were allowing the Chinese to control us. By intimidating with violence sympathizers would be less likely to cooperate with the invading force. I have already shown this has happened in our country on a small scale. I haven't even gone back to the revolutionary war for this.

Please say you are not comparing crime to terrorism. Because they are completely different things with different motivations and methods of controlling them.

And as for your continuation of the Chinese analogy, our insurgency might target Americans that crossed over. But innocent ones? Never, unless we had a different motivation then winning back the US.

 

[Thorgasm]

Please say you are not comparing crime to terrorism. Because they are completely different things with different motivations and methods of controlling them.

Well, we aren't controlling crime. I don't think that we are controlling terrorism around the world either. Yes, we haven't had an attack on our soil. That is true if you don't consider our bases in Iraq American soil.

And as for your continuation of the Chinese analogy, our insurgency might target Americans that crossed over. But innocent ones? Never, unless we had a different motivation then winning back the US.

Obviously people may differ on what "innocent" is. Some may take on the opinion of, "if you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem". There is a convenient word that sounds better than "killing innocent" people. It is the term, "collateral damage". That is how we get to sleep guilt-free when talking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I am not debating the use of the nuclear bombs. But we sure did target innocent civilians.

 

[zymurgy]

Hey I am biased, I don't consider that a personal attack.......If you do then I apologize..... Now calling someone dumb that is another matter...

OK, except I didn't call you dumb and I'm sorryif it came across that way.

After labeling me as too biased I questioned your ability to debate in a civilized manner. In fact, here is my exact quote, warts and all:

"I'm not sure that you can enage in civilized debate but I'm willing to give it a try.

Please explain how speaking your mind on foreign soil gives any more comfort and aid to the enemy as speaking your mind on American soil."

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You have no idea what motivates the terrorists. It sure isn't our entertainers expressing their opinions. I know you like to think the terrorists are just like you , but they aren't. They aren't motivated by our talking heads. They have their own that do a good enough job. If another country invaded us would you really need a dissenting voice from the invading country to motivate you to fight? "Some people you just can't reach...."--from the movie, "Cool Hand Luke"

I would have to disagree. I think it can be a big boost to these animals to see our politicians and big names and talking heads taking there side. I think it is a definet moral boost for a group of animals that enjoy the kill, but know they can't win. By seeing this it shows they are definetly making news and changing minds. They are unaware how easy the minds of some are to change. THat it's not really much of a victory to change the mind of a flip flopper. BUt yeah I could definetly see this being a boost or aid for these creatures

 

[Kelzie]

I would have to disagree. I think it can be a big boost to these animals to see our politicians and big names and talking heads taking there side. I think it is a definet moral boost for a group of animals that enjoy the kill, but know they can't win. By seeing this it shows they are definetly making news and changing minds. They are unaware how easy the minds of some are to change. THat it's not really much of a victory to change the mind of a flip flopper. BUt yeah I could definetly see this being a boost or aid for these creatures

And for all you know, politicians cheering our troops on could motivate the terrorists to fight even harder. I refuse to give up MY rights to say and think what I want because of the effects it might or might not have on people around the world. We're Americans, not French. We don't cower and shut up because people don't want to hear it. That even includes people you don't want to hear. Anyone who's saying they want the government to monitor what people are saying should pack it up and move. I hear France has great employment opportunities.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

And for all you know, politicians cheering our troops on could motivate the terrorists to fight even harder. I refuse to give up MY rights to say and think what I want because of the effects it might or might not have on people around the world. We're Americans, not French. We don't cower and shut up because people don't want to hear it. That even includes people you don't want to hear. Anyone who's saying they want the government to monitor what people are saying should pack it up and move. I hear France has great employment opportunities.

And I don't recall ever saying you can't. Although kelzie you're amazingly famous, loved and adored in the DP world. Outside of this little island among islands. Your not a face or name thats recognizable throughtout the world. Least that I know of, I may be wrong. So "akbar the kid killer" may get a little joy from hearing you belittle, trounce or villafy the country he is fighting against. It is not going to be a staple he is going to e able to use to motivate him or his troops with. However a well known politician or larger then life figure doing it is a different story. He can use this as fuel to his kid killing throat cutting friends to motivate them further. I think the worlds different today with media coverage and the internet. And I elive that what you say now has global effects. MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more so then it dod 30 years ago. The dissention within the country would stay within the country, realatively speaking that is. But now it's beamed all over the world in second. Were an "Instant On" society. And I think words and actions can do a lot of good, but they can do even more bad

 

[Kelzie]

And I don't recall ever saying you can't. Although kelzie you're amazingly famous, loved and adored in the DP world. Outside of this little island among islands. Your not a face or name thats recognizable throughtout the world.

What?!? Say it ain't so! :shock: Doesn't everyone love me?:mrgreen:

Least that I know of, I may be wrong. So "akbar the kid killer" may get a little joy from hearing you belittle, trounce or villafy the country he is fighting against. It is not going to be a staple he is going to e able to use to motivate him or his troops with. However a well known politician or larger then life figure doing it is a different story. He can use this as fuel to his kid killing throat cutting friends to motivate them further. I think the worlds different today with media coverage and the internet. And I elive that what you say now has global effects. MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more so then it dod 30 years ago. The dissention within the country would stay within the country, realatively speaking that is. But now it's beamed all over the world in second. Were an "Instant On" society. And I think words and actions can do a lot of good, but they can do even more bad

Like some Danish cartoons? Or should those not have been printed either? The Western, civilized world should not cave in to these childish temper tantrums. We have always prided ourselves for our free speech. We should not deny it to those who speak the loudest despite the effects it has on idiots living across the world. Our politicians aren't what fuels their anger. Our way of life is. Should we change that too, so we don't upset them?

 

[Navy Pride]

OK, except I didn't call you dumb and I'm sorryif it came across that way.

After labeling me as too biased I questioned your ability to debate in a civilized manner. In fact, here is my exact quote, warts and all:

"I'm not sure that you can enage in civilized debate but I'm willing to give it a try.

Please explain how speaking your mind on foreign soil gives any more comfort and aid to the enemy as speaking your mind on American soil."

It doesn't give more support...One is as bad as the other except putting down your country on foreign soil in front of a socialist like Chavez or a bunch of left wingers in the UK is much more cowardly.......

 

[Navy Pride]

And for all you know, politicians cheering our troops on could motivate the terrorists to fight even harder. I refuse to give up MY rights to say and think what I want because of the effects it might or might not have on people around the world. We're Americans, not French. We don't cower and shut up because people don't want to hear it. That even includes people you don't want to hear. Anyone who's saying they want the government to monitor what people are saying should pack it up and move. I hear France has great employment opportunities.

kelzie I think if the terrorist were to see this country 100 percent behind our troops in Iraq it would be very demoralizing to them but when they hear people like Murtha say our military is broken and when they hear Kerry compare our troops to terrorists it gives them motivation to keep up the fight......

 

[zymurgy]

It doesn't give more support...One is as bad as the other except putting down your country on foreign soil in front of a socialist like Chavez or a bunch of left wingers in the UK is much more cowardly.......

So one is as bad as another and you have previously agreed that you also said critical things about Clinton.

That just about wraps that up....

 

[Kelzie]

kelzie I think if the terrorist were to see this country 100 percent behind our troops in Iraq it would be very demoralizing to them but when they hear people like Murtha say our military is broken and when they hear Kerry compare our troops to terrorists it gives them motivation to keep up the fight......

And I think I should have a million dollars and a pony, but no luck yet.

You can sit there all day and guess what the terrorists might do under what situation. I can easily see how having an American 100% behind Iraq would incite the terrorists to work harder, since it would convince them even more that we are out to get them and this is their holy war. I don't really care one way or the other. I refuse to change my behaviors or give up my rights because of people willing to blow themselves and others up in the name of stalling progress. I don't expect others to change either. America is not strengthened by changing our behavior, that's what they want us to do.

 

[Navy Pride]

So one is as bad as another and you have previously agreed that you also said critical things about Clinton.

That just about wraps that up....

Yes I have, in a forum like this where people can disagree with me............its easy to criticize when the people your talking to all agree with you

 

[Calm2Chaos]

What?!? Say it ain't so! :shock: Doesn't everyone love me?:mrgreen:



Like some Danish cartoons? Or should those not have been printed either? The Western, civilized world should not cave in to these childish temper tantrums. We have always prided ourselves for our free speech. We should not deny it to those who speak the loudest despite the effects it has on idiots living across the world. Our politicians aren't what fuels their anger. Our way of life is. Should we change that too, so we don't upset them?

I think there is a big difference. I have no problems with the cartoons. I was pissed that our media was scared to print them. But have no problem find any and all negative stories concerning this country it's government and it's military. I think there is a time and a place for certain people to speak. And I think if your going to garner this special attention you should be smart enough to know your words will have ramifications farther then your front door. I am not saying people shouldn't speak, I just wish they would think first. It does no good for a well known politician to compare our soldiers to nazis or our president to Hitler. It does no good to have "now" high profile people calling these animals freedom fighters and us terrorist. I do think this gives them support and helps bolster there resolve.

 

[Kelzie]

I think there is a big difference. I have no problems with the cartoons. I was pissed that our media was scared to print them. But have no problem find any and all negative stories concerning this country it's government and it's military. I think there is a time and a place for certain people to speak. And I think if your going to garner this special attention you should be smart enough to know your words will have ramifications farther then your front door. I am not saying people shouldn't speak, I just wish they would think first. It does no good for a well known politician to compare our soldiers to nazis or our president to Hitler. It does no good to have "now" high profile people calling these animals freedom fighters and us terrorist. I do think this gives them support and helps bolster there resolve.

So let me get this straight. If Denmark prints cartoons that inflames the terrorists, that's all right and in fact should be encouraged. But if our politicians say things that inflames the terrorists, that is wrong and they should shut up? That makes no sense. Either your goal is to calm down the Muslim world, in which case anything that upsets them should be frowned upon, or your goal is to not let terrorists affect your choices in which case you shouldn't care what they do. You can't have it both way. Of course, an alternate theory is that inflaming Muslims is wrong only if the thing that inflames them is something you disagree with. I support the Iraq War. I think those that don't are narrow-sighted and hypocritical. But I support the war in persuit of freedom for all. It would be downright silly to deny ourself freedom while seeking to spread it.

 

[aps]

"This is the only paragraph of your post that I read. I said that neither one of us truly knows. If you think you know, Ms. Omniscient, LOL."

Yea right.

LOL Don't flatter yourself. Trust me, doughgirl, I would rather sit a room with nothing to read than read through your posts.

Interesting that you refuse to acknowledge what I truly said.

 

[Navy Pride]

So one is as bad as another and you have previously agreed that you also said critical things about Clinton.

That just about wraps that up....

It just takes more courage to express such outrageous views in this country...........I really don't understand what Clinton has to do with this........Behind Carter I think he is the worse president this country ever had but when it comes to the troops in harms way I backed him 100 percent.......

 

[Navy Pride]

And I think I should have a million dollars and a pony, but no luck yet.

You can sit there all day and guess what the terrorists might do under what situation. I can easily see how having an American 100% behind Iraq would incite the terrorists to work harder, since it would convince them even more that we are out to get them and this is their holy war. I don't really care one way or the other. I refuse to change my behaviors or give up my rights because of people willing to blow themselves and others up in the name of stalling progress. I don't expect others to change either. America is not strengthened by changing our behavior, that's what they want us to do.

Liberals like to compare Iraq to Vietnam..............Well General Giap who was the leader of the NVN army praised Kerry for him opposing the war...............He was a heo to the enemy............If the people in this country were 100 percent behind our military in Iraq instead of calling them broken as Murtha did and terrorists as Kerry did it would would discourage the terrorists.............They saw what happened in Nam when the left rose up against the war lost the stomach for the fight and advocated cutting and running.....As soon as we left millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians that were loyal to the U.S. were murdered...........

We will not let that happen in Iraq no matter how much the left whines about it..........I have a lot of disagreements with this president but when it comes to the war in Iraq and against terrorism I am 100 percent behind him..........