Distributions of wealth in this country

[rickc]

Ok, let me see if I can ..... hmmm... You do know that the ones who you say "have benefited most from the opportunities available" are the ones who create opportunities for others, right?

What is "fair share"? If I pay $1000 dollars in tax and you pay $1000 dollars in tax that is fair. That's paying "fair share".

Because I've made $3 million last year and you've made $30,000 has nothing to do with it.

Now if part of the money I dished out to make my $3 million was paying you $30,000 than I'm really paying all of it, am I not? And you are getting off scot-free.

Sure you may have provided your labor but I provided you with opportunity to capitalize on your labor.

So now we've shown that

1) I have provided the opportunity for you to capitalize on your labor
2) I've provided you $30,000 in compensation for your labor of which $1000 is taken in taxes
3) I've provided an additional $1000 of my own to be taken in the form of taxation

The way it looks is you're walking away with $29,000 dollars you wouldn't have if not for me and the opportunity I've provided.

Opportunity given, payment for labor given, taxation is taken. If something is taken and not given, meaning I haven't agreed to the amount I should give then what is that? Theft.

If you are trying to use the coercive power of the government to make me pay an amount that I don't agree with, what is that? Theft.

and after all I've done for you...

well lets just say we have quite a different perspective of reality. we have a.progressive tax code just for people that think like.you. now you guys have greatly distorted that tax.code over the last few decades as the graphics.below depict. its time to put it right.

what it is supposed to be




what you are actually paying

 

[distraff]

You can't give all the new wealth of a country to just a few golden few. Capitalism dies when the incentive of the possibility to get ahead is taken away. Which it has been the case since 1981. I would like the greatest most powerful richest country in the world, to stay capitalistic and a Republic. Not caring about the fact that the golden few get it all and in no way deserve it all is selling out my country.

Income inequality is a requirement for a healthy economy. The problem is that when it is so high that the rich have been taking most of the growth. Whenever companies earn more in profits those earnings go to their shareholders and executives. E.g. the average get an 8% annual salary increase and thats not including their stock market gains. Workers get 2.9% which doesn't even beat inflation. The free market is flawed and sometimes everyone working for their self-interest and having the rich control the economy helps those at the top a lot more than 99% of the population. Companies should instead be rewarding their workers and executives equally with wage increases and profits shares rather than just helping those at the top. The people who do all of the actual work and invent the new technologies are the workers, the executives simply do the high level management. We should use government policy to correct problems with the free market in the least intrusive and least heavy handed way possible so we don't hurt businesses that hire people.

 

[Bullseye]

i don't see how asking those who have benefited most from the opportunities available to them in this great country to pay their fair share of taxes stealing.

Ah, the inevitable prog "fair share" lunacy. You guys never give up and never, ever provide a concrete definition of "fair share".

i understand that the wealthiest Americans have decades and 100's of millions of dollars invested in getting the tax code written to benefit them most.



don't blame them for what they have done but it is time to fix it. we can't keep borrowing money to give to them, we have to pay our bills. We need to return the widespread growth in imcome for everyone of the pre reagan years. we need to increase the holding period for.long term capital gains and raise the rate. we need to fix social security and we need medicare for all.

Apparently you don't "understand" you just repeat the talking points fed to you. IF the wealthiest Americans wrote the tax code why do the top 10% pay over 50% of total tax revenue, will the bottom 45% pay essentially zero income tax and may actually get money back they never paid in?

 

[rickc]

Ah, the inevitable prog "fair share" lunacy. You guys never give up and never, ever provide a concrete definition of "fair share".


Apparently you don't "understand" you just repeat the talking points fed to you. IF the wealthiest Americans wrote the tax code why do the top 10% pay over 50% of total tax revenue, will the bottom 45% pay essentially zero income tax and may actually get money back they never paid in?

fair share? lets put the tax code to the rates before reagan when a rising tide raised ALL boats. seems the corporations, investors and executives and ths workers were.doing.fine then



yeah the top ten are the ones getting the lions share of income.even at their low effective tax.rate they obviously would pay the lions share of the taxes.

 

[Bullseye]

well lets just say we have quite a different perspective of reality. we have a.progressive tax code just for people that think like.you. now you guys have greatly distorted that tax.code over the last few decades as the graphics.below depict. its time to put it right.

what it is supposed to be

View attachment 67240930


what you are actually paying

View attachment 67240931

View attachment 67240933

View attachment 67240934

Not sure what you think these charts prove, but they probably don't. A chart of marginal tax rates does little except prove we do have a progressive tax system. It's fine to show how EFFECTIVE tax rates for one economic class has declined, BUT let's see similar charts for ALL classes. You'd see similar, if not more drastic declines with some classes going to zero.

You last chart shows successful people earn more. What it doesn't show is that those in the top 1% probably aren't the same ones that were in that group in 1970, nor are those in the bottom group in 1970 necessarily still in that group today; many probably weren't even born then.

 

[rickc]

here you go buddy. does that look like a progressive rate?

 

[Bullseye]

fair share? lets put the tax code to the rates before reagan when a rising tide raised ALL boats. seems the corporations, investors and executives and ths workers were.doing.fine then

"Doing fine"? Guess you don't remember the crushing stagflation, OPEC, or the general malaise of the Carter years.

View attachment 67240935

yeah the top ten are the ones getting the lions share of income.even at their low effective tax.rate they obviously would pay the lions share of the taxes.

Still proves nothing. As I said they DO pay the lion's share at current rates. Not sure what you think a chart of marginal rates proves.


Side question: What's with the.random.periods.you.inject. The space bar is the long skinny one. :lamo

 

[rickc]

"Doing fine"? Guess you don't remember the crushing stagflation, OPEC, or the general malaise of the Carter years.
Still proves nothing. As I said they DO pay the lion's share at current rates. Not sure what you think a chart of marginal rates proves.


Side question: What's with the.random.periods.you.inject. The space bar is the long skinny one. :lamo

clearly this depicts the fact that we no longer have a progressive tax code as intended.

 

[Bullseye]

clearly this depicts the fact that we no longer have a progressive tax code as intended.

Not sure what YOUR definition of "progressive tax system" is but our system is the textbook example of a true progressive system Your chart of marginal tax rates also illustrates that.

 

[rickc]

Not sure what YOUR definition of "progressive tax system" is but our system is the textbook example of a true progressive system Your chart of marginal tax rates also illustrates that.

lets see

starting at $74,000 all the way to $352,000 and above the effective rate is the same 21% and the very top 1% pay at.16.5%

now the is what the tax brackets are for a progressive system. nothing like what is now reality

 

[Bullseye]

lets see

starting at $74,000 all the way to $352,000 and above the effective rate is the same 21% and the very top 1% pay at.16.5%

now the is what the tax brackets are for a progressive system. nothing like what is now reality

View attachment 67240948

You're mixing effective and marginal rates. I don't even see the numbers you're citing on your chart.

 

[rickc]

You're mixing effective and marginal rates. I don't even see the numbers you're citing on your chart.

with a true progressive tax rate you would see each tax bracket effective tax rate increase with increased income.

in our system everyone's effective tax rate from $74,000 to $352,000 is the same and those at the very top are paying less than half the top marginal tax rate. most of their income is taxed as capital gains so that explains that.

as Buffet says it is ridiculous for me to pay taxes at a lower rate than my secretary.

whether you agree or not our tax code is highly biased towards the wealthy.

 

[Bullseye]

with a true progressive tax rate you would see each tax bracket effective tax rate increase with increased income.

in our system everyone's effective tax rate from $74,000 to $352,000 is the same and those at the very top are paying less than half the top marginal tax rate. most of their income is taxed as capital gains so that explains that.

WTF are your talking about? $74,00 would have a much lower effective rate than the $352,000.

as Buffet says it is ridiculous for me to pay taxes at a lower rate than my secretary.

LOL, it's been shown Buffet was confused - he was comparing his effective rate to his secretary's marginal rate.

whether you agree or not our tax code is highly biased towards the wealthy.

Whether you agree or not you haven't got clue one about how our tax system ( or even tax RATES) work.

 

[concernedpuma]

This string is precisely why I don't trust any site as proof of anything. Both sides have produced convincing graph's to prove their own point's. To me, the day to day living and the practical results are what counts. I vote for the person(s) who has(have) the best ideas for me. Anything wrong with that?
Now, to the national debt, it would be in my favor to pay less tax, but the nation's survival is paramount. If I need to pay more, I stand ready.
Regards,
CP

 

[JustHanging]

Hmm... if capitalism died in 1981 then how are we (still?) the greatest, most powerful, richest country in the world?

Well, "greatest" would depend your definition. I would define "greatest" as best place to live, the USA falls down a bit in that category.

But definitely most powerful and richest. Which makes it a real shame that it's not also the best place to live.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Well, "greatest" would depend your definition. I would define "greatest" as best place to live, the USA falls down a bit in that category.

But definitely most powerful and richest. Which makes it a real shame that it's not also the best place to live.

Hmm... if America was the greatert place (to live?) before 1981 then do you want to make America great again?

 

[concernedpuma]

Well, "greatest" would depend your definition. I would define "greatest" as best place to live, the USA falls down a bit in that category.

But definitely most powerful and richest. Which makes it a real shame that it's not also the best place to live.

I thoroughly disagree. The United States Is the best place on Earth to live. Other countries have their good points, certainly yes. But I wouldn't trade my citizenship for any other. If for no no other reason than you and I freely discuss it, and both want it even better.
Regards,
CP

 

[JustHanging]

Hmm... if America was the greatert place (to live?) before 1981 then do you want to make America great again?

I don't think it was ever the best place to live, including before 1981. I would never have preferred to live there. Too much racism, too much hatred, too much violence, too little freedom, too little sharing. At least compared to what I'm used to.

 

[JustHanging]

I wouldn't trade my citizenship for any other.
CP

I feel the same way.

 

[concernedpuma]

I don't think it was ever the best place to live, including before 1981. I would never have preferred to live there. Too much racism, too much hatred, too much violence, too little freedom. At least compared to what I'm used to.

That sounds made up. If you never lived here, how would you know? If you did, what's with the "Ever thinking"? I'm not sure where you do live, but it sounds great. Where exactly is this Nirvana? Throw it out there for true comparison.
Regards.
CP

 

[JustHanging]

That sounds made up. If you never lived here, how would you know?

Because I live next to the border, and have observed American culture my entire life.

Of you did, what's with the "Ever thinking"? I'm not sure where you do live, but it sounds great.

Canada. And yeah, it is.

Where exactly is this Nirvana? Throw it out there for true comparison.

Vancouver.

How about you?

The world's most liveable cities in 2018
Osaka, Japan.
Calgary, Canada.
Sydney, Australia.
Vancouver, Canada.
7. ( tie) Toronto, Canada.
7. ( tie) Tokyo, Japan.
Copenhagen, Denmark.
Adelaide, Australia.

Mercer 2018 Quality of life Index
Vancouver #5 in the world

 

[concernedpuma]

Because I live next to the border, and have observed American culture my entire life.


Canada. And yeah, it is.



Vancouver.

How about you?

The world's most liveable cities in 2018
Osaka, Japan.
Calgary, Canada.
Sydney, Australia.
Vancouver, Canada.
7. ( tie) Toronto, Canada.
7. ( tie) Tokyo, Japan.
Copenhagen, Denmark.
Adelaide, Australia.

Mercer 2018 Quality of life Index
Vancouver #5 in the world

First, out of the gate, I love Canada. But, truth be told, I know of at least two different police officers who left Toronto, because of the lawlessness there. I have only their word, but they were truthful in every other instance, so I believe them. Who, other than you and draft dodgers , would trade American Citizenship, for Canadian? My best wishes for Canada, but I'll take the USA, any day.
That makes us both content, right? I'm guessing you will mature from your Prime Minister someday and stanch the ticking time bomb of immigration he embraces. I don't relish another wall.
I would suggest you don't know about much difference, other than snow. If your leaders hadn't been so slavish to the Crown way back, you could have been the 51st state. Too late now, or is it?
Regards,
CP

 

[JustHanging]

First, out of the gate, I love Canada. But, truth be told, I know of at least two different police officers who left Toronto, because of the lawlessness there. I have only their word, but they were truthful in every other instance, so I believe them.

That's nice.

Who, other than you and draft dodgers , would trade American Citizenship, for Canadian?

People who value Freedom, education, healthcare, safety, better distribution of wealth, things like that.

My best wishes for Canada, but I'll take the USA, any day.

Good

That makes us both content, right? I'm guessing you will mature from your Prime Minister someday and stanch the ticking time bomb of immigration he embraces.

Our diversity is becoming one of our great strengths. I hope we keep up our immigration policy, it's working very well.

I don't relish another wall.

Our PM promised us a wall on our Southern border, and said the USA would pay for it. We just need to get a few more brown skinned people and you'll do it? Deal!

I would suggest you don't know about much difference, other than snow.

Lots of similarities, like we both live in North America, and we both celebrate Thanksgiving and Halloween. Lots of differences, like we love our single payer healthcare system, and we're good at hockey, we have a more equitable distribution of wealth

If your leaders hadn't been so slavish to the Crown way back, you could have been the 51st state.

Yeah, that was a close one, but we made it.

Too late now, or is it?

I'm not sure we want the responsibility of an 11th Province, but if you asked real nice, we would probably let you join. You would have to learn to be better about sharing though.

Regards,
CP

You didn't tell me where you live. I know my city is usually in the top 5 when it comes to best cities in the world to live in, how does your city rank?

 

[jbander]

:lamo

My IQ is high enough to have made something of myself so I don't sit here on a political chat board crying about how unfair the rich people are in this world and think that it's only right to steal from them to satisfy my envy, greed, and jealousy...


:lamo

Just another proof that the weakest minds need lies to to give what they have to say any kind of sense , till you find out it is just lies. Lets look at that , I've stated here that I believe that everyone should be allowed to make as much as they can. So his first point is **** and a make believe from his weak position. This is so beautiful Quote from a weak mind " crying about how unfair the rich people are in this world and think that it's only right to steal from them to satisfy my envy, greed, and jealousy...." This is beautiful and makes my point, without lies and distortion the hate party couldn't or wouldn't exist, So I have to thank this big guy for making my point for me. Yuk Yuk.

 

[concernedpuma]

That's nice.



People who value Freedom, education, healthcare, safety, things like that.



Good



Our diversity is becoming one of our great strengths. I hope we keep up our immigration policy, it's working very well.



Our PM promised us a wall on our Southern border, and said the USA would pay for it. Sounds like he was right.


Lots of similarities, like we both live in North America, and we both celebrate Thanksgiving and Halloween. Lots of differences, like we love our single payer healthcare system, and we're good at hockey.



Yeah, that was a close one, but we made it


I'm not sure we want the responsibility of an 11th Province, and you guys would need a large attitude adjustment, but if you asked real nice, we would probably let you join.



You didn't tell me where you live. I know my city is usually top 5 when it comes to best cities in the world to live in, how does your city rank?

My Canadian friend, you sound reasonable and I appreciate your humorous jabs, really I do.I won't berate Canada. That would certainly be like cursing my own brother.
I live in Florida, Pinellas County. You have maybe been here during the winter?
I'm glad you are happy with your immigration policy, and it really is your business, not mine. I do believe you're nesting a viper, but so long as you keep it in Canada, we won't need a wall. I do have a heart and am considerate of the troubles of the rest of the world. Take care of it and we won't assemble a wall. If we do, you will pay for it!
Regards
CP