Distributions of Federal Income Taxation

[Lord of Planar]

Not to zero, no. But the trend is downward. Great Lobbying, isn't it?

The history of Corporate Taxation since 1934 is in green below. It gets thinner and thinner ...

And that yello band above is the Payroll Tax. Do you know what that is?

Definition from here:

I'm surprised Investopedia missed an important aspect of the payroll tax.

Employers pay a matching medicare and social security tax, making what goes to the government 15.3% of a person's pay for the average person. Self employed people have to pay the 15.3%

 

[NatMorton]

Laffer was the republicans excuse for trickle down

Perhaps you'd like to speak to the issue that's actually being discussed, i.e. concerning a point of diminishing returns on tax rates or would that be a bit too much to ask?

 

[rickc]

Perhaps you'd like to speak to the issue that's actually being discussed, i.e. concerning a point of diminishing returns on tax rates or would that be a bit too much to ask?

Well tax cuts for the rich don't pay for themselves in revenue growth like Republicans have claimed in the past.

And tax cuts don't seem to result in GDP growth either.

They only make the rich richer and the middle class suffer for it.

 

[NatMorton]

Well tax cuts for the rich don't pay for themselves in revenue growth like Republicans have claimed in the past.

And tax cuts don't seem to result in GDP growth either.

They only make the rich richer and the middle class suffer for it.

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No one here is making claims that tax cuts pay for themselves, no one here is saying they promote growth (but I would argue they do), and we are not discussing income in equality. In fact, we're not talking about individual income tax rates, at all. We're discussing the corporate tax rate.

So, you can park the robo-responses and participate in the conversation going on, if you like.

 

[rickc]

Corporate taxes? Get real! So many loopholes, writeoffs and scams corporations don't pay taxes whatever the rate.

Now I say this should be fixed and they should pay. Hell a third of my income goes to uncle Sam.

At least 60 companies reported that their 2018 federal tax rates amounted to effectively zero, or even less than zero, on income earned on U.S. operations, according to an analysis released today by the Washington, D.C.-based think tank, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The number is more than twice as many as ITEP found roughly, per year, on average in an earlier, multi-year analysis before the new tax law went into effect.

Among them are household names like technology giant Amazon.com Inc. and entertainment streaming service Netflix Inc., in addition to global oil giant Chevron Corp., pharmaceutical manufacturer Eli Lilly & Co., and farming and commercial equipment manufacturer Deere & Co.

The identified companies were “able to zero out their federal income taxes on $79 billion in U.S. pretax income,” according to the ITEP report, which was released today. “Instead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year.” To compile the list, ITEP analyzed the 2018 financial filings of the country’s largest 560 publicly-held companies.

You paid taxes. These corporations didn't.

This story was published in partnership with NBC News. The Center for Public Integrity is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates betrayals of public trust. Sign up to receive our stories. Taxpayers are scrambling to make last-minute payments due to the Internal Revenue Service in just four days...

publicintegrity.org

 

[NatMorton]

Corporate taxes? Get real! So many loopholes, writeoffs and scams corporations don't pay taxes whatever the rate.

Now I say this should be fixed and they should pay. Hell a third of my income goes to uncle Sam.

At least 60 companies reported that their 2018 federal tax rates amounted to effectively zero, or even less than zero, on income earned on U.S. operations, according to an analysis released today by the Washington, D.C.-based think tank, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The number is more than twice as many as ITEP found roughly, per year, on average in an earlier, multi-year analysis before the new tax law went into effect.

Among them are household names like technology giant Amazon.com Inc. and entertainment streaming service Netflix Inc., in addition to global oil giant Chevron Corp., pharmaceutical manufacturer Eli Lilly & Co., and farming and commercial equipment manufacturer Deere & Co.

The identified companies were “able to zero out their federal income taxes on $79 billion in U.S. pretax income,” according to the ITEP report, which was released today. “Instead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year.” To compile the list, ITEP analyzed the 2018 financial filings of the country’s largest 560 publicly-held companies.

You paid taxes. These corporations didn't.

This story was published in partnership with NBC News. The Center for Public Integrity is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates betrayals of public trust. Sign up to receive our stories. Taxpayers are scrambling to make last-minute payments due to the Internal Revenue Service in just four days...

publicintegrity.org

What are you talking about?

 

[TurtleDude]

So your solution is a race to the bottom with a goal of corporations paying no taxes whatsoever while raking in billions? Your ideology is a cancer.

corporations pay or contribute all sorts of revenue to the tax collector.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Interesting that you picture a race to ever-freer human endeavor, with less and less a squashing hand of government, a journey down.

I don't feel squashed by the government.

I have to pay taxes, but so what?

I have to follow stringent EPA rules at the lab, but I live in this town and I'd rather not have it turn toxic.

My wife had a heart scare a few months back, and the fire department was here in 7 minutes.

What is this "squashing" of which you speak?

 

[calamity]

The only time I ever feel the bite of US Fed tax is when the bonus gets reconciled into what would have been a clean return. Of course, that check gets taxed at the marginal max and the hit is intense. So, I go from expecting a refund of one or two thousand to owing about twice that. It really rains on the parade.

Other than the bonuses and commissions, which do get hit hard, as mentioned above, I can't complain. In rough numbers, after factoring in for deductions, deferred investments and pre-tax expenses, I pretty much keep 75 to 80% of my gross base income. I can't really bitch about that.

I think I take home about 60% of the weekly base in cash but use 20% more of it for retirement and insurance expenses. People forget to add the employer contribution to health insurance. For most of us, that is at least $1000 a month. And, if we live long enough, we probably should include Social Security and Medicare payments as tax-deferred retained earnings as well.

 

[TurtleDude]

This.

This is why republicans want to reduce their rates. For some reason, democrats would rather tax 39% of nothing, rather then 25% of lots.

that's because many democrats think the purpose of taxes are to even up an unfair world (and more importantly, buy the votes and the power that comes with votes from those that the Democrats convince that they are the victims of unfairness)

 

[NatMorton]

The only time I ever feel the bite of US Fed tax is when the bonus gets reconciled into what would have been a clean return. Of course, that check gets taxed at the marginal max and the hit is intense. So, I go from expecting a refund of one or two thousand to owing about twice that. It really rains on the parade.

Other than the bonuses and commissions, which do get hit hard, as mentioned above, I can't complain. In rough numbers, after factoring in for deductions, deferred investments and pre-tax expenses, I pretty much keep 75 to 80% of my gross base income. I can't really bitch about that.

I think I take home about 60% of the weekly base in cash but use 20% more of it for retirement and insurance expenses. People forget to add the employer contribution to health insurance. For most of us, that is at least $1000 a month. And, if we live long enough, we probably should include Social Security and Medicare payments as tax-deferred retained earnings as well.

You pay a great deal more in taxes than you realize. Much of it in the form of higher prices for the goods and services you use.

 

[eohrnberger]

Laffer was the republicans excuse for trickle down

Can you cite a reputable economist which has proven that 'trickle down economics' is an actual theory in economics?
Or is 'trickle down economics' theory just invented for convenience?

 

[cpwill]

I don't feel squashed by the government.

Yeah. Just as a control on good governance, I wish we didn't have withholding, and had some means of making the full regulatory burden transparent to people.

I have to pay taxes, but so what?

That's certainly one mechanism, and one that, thankfully, is less onerous here than in other places.

I have to follow stringent EPA rules at the lab, but I live in this town and I'd rather not have it turn toxic.

Yup. Ecological damage is one of the reasons we need government - but also one in which the internal incentive structure for Government workers can produce damaging, burdensome, overreach.

 

[calamity]

You pay a great deal more in taxes than you realize. Much of it in the form of higher prices for the goods and services you use.

Yes. Healthcare is a perfect example of that. US Americans get gouged coming and going. Our insurance premiums are through the roof, as are our co-payments. And, then there is the whole "denial of treatment" matter to address, where life-saving drugs and other beneficial therapies are denied by various companies to preserve profit.

 

[NatMorton]

Yes. Healthcare is a perfect example of that. US Americans get gouged coming and going. Our insurance premiums are through the roof, as are our co-payments. And, then there is the whole "denial of treatment" matter to address, where life-saving drugs and other beneficial therapies are denied by various companies to preserve profit.

Yes, we sure could use a genuine market for health insurance.

 

[cpwill]

Yes, we sure could use a genuine market for health insurance.

Imagine a world in which lizard spokesmen competed on tv to give you the best deal for health insurance.

 

[Nickyjo]

I’ve noticed a pattern in conservative argument. Corporate taxes bad for the reasons stated in this thread.... Capital gains taxed the same as other income — also bad because it inhibits investment.... Inheritance tax — bad because it’s somehow double taxation... Raise the minimum wage, obviously bad for workers...
I am beginning to sense a pattern here.

 

[rickc]

I’ve noticed a pattern in conservative argument. Corporate taxes bad for the reasons stated in this thread.... Capital gains taxed the same as other income — also bad because it inhibits investment.... Inheritance tax — bad because it’s somehow double taxation... Raise the minimum wage, obviously bad for workers...
I am beginning to sense a pattern here.

No shit!

Just what you would expect to hear from some billionaire about to see his taxes raised.

But this is from some trailer trash trumper.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Yeah. Just as a control on good governance, I wish we didn't have withholding, and had some means of making the full regulatory burden transparent to people.

Withholding is the only way it could work. You don't give a slightly stupid child his entire annual allowance on one day, do you?

Yup. Ecological damage is one of the reasons we need government - but also one in which the internal incentive structure for Government workers can produce damaging, burdensome, overreach.

I keep hearing about this overreach, but I've never actually seen it.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I’ve noticed a pattern in conservative argument. Corporate taxes bad for the reasons stated in this thread.... Capital gains taxed the same as other income — also bad because it inhibits investment.... Inheritance tax — bad because it’s somehow double taxation... Raise the minimum wage, obviously bad for workers...
I am beginning to sense a pattern here.

The consumer ends up paying more for the products that have been taxed at the corporate tax rate.

Capital Gains taxes are less because there are times when money is invested, and never show a gain. Often a loss. The balance of profits and losses on investment means that the more you tax investment, the less people will invest.

Minimum wage? It was never intended to be a living wage. It used to always be entry level jobs. The problem isn't what the minimum wage is set to. The problem is supply and demand of jobs vs. workers. Illegal immigrants most certainly don't help.

 

[Lord of Planar]

No shit!

Just what you would expect to hear from some billionaire about to see his taxes raised.

But this is from some trailer trash trumper.

I can understand billionaires being worried. I expect that when the democrat congress and president Biden are done with the 2021 tax code, I will pay at least $5k more this year than last. And I'm a Middle Class American.

As for those who classify as "Trailer Trash." Under a democrat tax plan, they will get more subsidies. Are you sure you are assigning things right?

 

[Nickyjo]

The consumer ends up paying more for the products that have been taxed at the corporate tax rate.

Capital Gains taxes are less because there are times when money is invested, and never show a gain. Often a loss. The balance of profits and losses on investment means that the more you tax investment, the less people will invest.

Minimum wage? It was never intended to be a living wage. It used to always be entry level jobs. The problem isn't what the minimum wage is set to. The problem is supply and demand of jobs vs. workers. Illegal immigrants most certainly don't help.

Thank you for proving my point. There always seems to be a readily available argument as to why the rich need more and the poor don’t. Next you’ll be saying right to work laws were designed out of sympathy for workers. Face it, those with more power and money push for laws or regulations that help them get more, pay less. So do those with less power and money. Yet they strangely advocate different things. Class, that almost forbidden word, exists and influences advocacy. “Where you sit is where you stand,” as the saying goes.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Thank you for proving my point. There always seems to be a readily available argument as to why the rich need more and the poor don’t. Next you’ll be saying right to work laws were designed out of sympathy for workers. Face it, those with more power and money push for laws or regulations that help them get more, pay less. So do those with less power and money. Yet they strangely advocate different things. Class, that almost forbidden word, exists and influences advocacy. “Where you sit is where you stand,” as the saying goes.

I wouldn't consider "need" the right word. It's human nature to get as much as we can for our labors.

Can you explain to us how wealth is a zero sum game? It isn't.

Luck and other circumstantial variables pay a role, but in general, people who are wealthy, earn it by work ethics. Generally, people who are at the lower rungs of the wealth ladder, are irresponsible in ways that are important.

Look at the achievers vs. the slackers from school, and consider what they have become when you see them at various high school reunions.

Blaming the rich for the problems of the poor is nothing but a lame excuse.

 

[calamity]

Yes, we sure could use a genuine market for health insurance.

We need to eliminate it.

Certainly, health insurance needs to be decoupled from employment. It's nuts, when you think about it. Private industry spends billions administering health plans for their employees. And, they spend 10X as much more subsidizing it for each eligible employee.

My company pays 2/3 of my premium. And, this is the norm. Most people do not even realize that they are paying that much for insurance because they only see 1/3 of the bill on their paycheck stub. The only way they find out the true cost of their group plan is when they quit, get laid off or fired and receive the COBRA premium bill in the mail. It's rather sizable: $1500 minimum per month for a family plan.

 

[NatMorton]

We need to eliminate it.

Certainly, health insurance needs to be decoupled from employment. It's nuts, when you think about it. Private industry spends billions administering health plans for their employees. And, they spend 10X as much more subsidizing it for each eligible employee.

My company pays 2/3 of my premium. And, this is the norm. Most people do not even realize that they are paying that much for insurance because they only see 1/3 of the bill on their paycheck stub. The only way they find out the true cost of their group plan is when they quit, get laid off or fired and receive the COBRA premium bill in the mail.

Yes, because monopolies are known far and wide for both their efficiency and quality of service.