Dishonor Code: What Happens When Cheating Becomes the Norm?

[nucky9]

You've made some brilliant points here to which I want to respond after thinking a bit more. In the meantime, I hope some of our more thoughtful members will chime in.

But for now, I'll say "Amen!" to your comment about the student-as-consumer. We've been talking about this for years and years now.

And I will add that we all have what is known as a "conscience." Most of us, anyway. Cheating is a form of theft. Another form of theft is cheating a class of students who are there to learn of their opportunity because YOU are unprepared and are dragging the class down in some other way.

There is a another issue with cheating as well. Honest students may struggle through a course and get a B-, fully deserved. But they will be in competition for jobs with students who cheated their way through the course and were awarded an A. Ultimately, if cheaters were only cheating themselves, I could deal with it, but the fact that they are essentially being rewarded for cheating bugs the hell out of me. Unfortunately, AI is only going to make things worse, and a big rethink on education will be needed. Due to the profit motive, and governments that are often openly hostile towards education, I don't think things will improve anytime soon.

Anyway, I agree lack of conscience is part of it for sure, but I think there are also deep-rooted societal issues that are work here.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Not any generation per se because choosing to be dishonorable is an individual choice as is teaching your kids that so long as you "win," the how doesn't matter.

And again, what is also troubling is the fact that the same students who cheat so frequently rank themselves as having high morals.

They see congresscritters and media personalities paying no consequences for dishonesty, CEOs and big companies getting away with murder and theft, is it any wonder they think it's ok?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Please don't ruin my thread by interjecting partisan politics into it. I mean, yay you for getting in a cheap shot, but you have dozens of political threads to play in.

That's not A "cheap shot" it's what happens when cheating becomes the norm. Cheaters end up running the place.

Like it or not it's a real comment, not a troll.

 

[nucky9]

They see congresscritters and media personalities paying no consequences for dishonesty, CEOs and big companies getting away with murder and theft, is it any wonder they think it's ok?

Yes, I think that is true. There are many reasons why there is more pressure to cheat now, and then there is also a level of normalization of certain behaviours, at many levels, that has been occurring at the same time. Given that our societal structure implicitly puts us all in direct competition with one another, the more people that play the game dishonestly, the more pressure on the rest to do the same.

 

[BirdinHand]

Aren't classes graded on a curve, if someone else gets an A my grade goes down.

Not necessarily.

When they join the workforce cheaters will eventually be found out. They spend more energy on faking what they know than simply getting a book and learning it. Once word gets out on how dumb you are, you're toast.

No they won’t. Many of them will get identified as HIPO’s and put in succession plans inside corporations to move up the corporate ladder. Corporate America doesn’t care about processes, they care about results. I’ve watched many incredibly mediocre employees moved into strategic positions largely based on personality and understanding corporate culture and business objectives that were complete idiots at their actual jobs.

 

[Davin]

Aren't classes graded on a curve, if someone else gets an A my grade goes down.

Not all the time. It was rare to see that.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Since the day I joined DP, I have bitched about those regard who college as a glorified trade school.

I agree.

It's pretty stupid for people to make that assumption.

It can be grueling at times academically for a student preparing oneself in many professions, and a lot of people fail to understand this.

My sister went through a tough 6 years. She would called me once in a while when she knew I wasn't out to sea.........bawling her eyes out. I'd crack a few jokes and call her a ****ing sissy and we would both be laughing. She just needed her little brother to tell her it was going to be OK.

 

[Superfly]

Thanks. If all colleges had tutorial centers like Sinclair community college, there would be a lot less dropouts imho.

That’s so important - don’t drop them and leave them without a safety net.

I had a Chemistry professor who was a raging mysoginist. He made it abundantly clear that women should not be in the field of science, and our tests were consistently scored lower than our male counterparts, for the exact same answers.

Had I stuck with him, I wouldn’t have passed Chem. I went to the Assistant Dean of the department with proof of what was happening. I was close to the end of undergrad and needed this class. That AD took me under his wing and tutored me twice a week every week until finals. I got an A+ in Chemistry, thanks to him.

The other professor, considering his behavior was more the rule than the exception, was let go. He’d been doing this for years, and Administration got tired of him and cut him loose.

 

[Slyfox696]

Aren't classes graded on a curve, if someone else gets an A my grade goes down.

It used to depend on the professor. But depending on the curve being used, it wouldn't necessarily go down. Assuming you're not talking about a bell curve, which is asinine in my opinion, the way most "grade on a curve" (at least in my experience) is to take the top score and make it an A (or something equivalent). Then however many points were added to the top score get added to all scores.

So someone getting an A wouldn't make yours go down, it would just keep it from going up. Again, assuming you're not talking about a bell curve.

Parents who complain and threaten to sue if their little darlings are held accountable for their cheating/plagarism.

In all honesty, as bad as parents have become, this really isn't one I see often. You might see parents pull the "well, Johnny was doing it too", but I do not have much experience with just getting upset for cheating repercussions. It could be different elsewhere, but I don't see that in my area.

 

[Slyfox696]

I think many students don't understand the concept of intellectual honesty, or even what it means to do independent work, so maybe this isn't so surprising.

I do not agree with this.

Many university level students seem to view assessment as a formality, and have the view that they are more consumers rather than learners (i.e., they are paying for the credentials directly, rather than paying for access to expertise upon which they can build their credentials around).

This I 100% agree with. And, more than that, I think this is how the colleges see them too.

In my mind, there are three main reasons for this:

First, higher education has become business focused, and so to a large degree, treats students as consumers first, learners second. When a student is caught cheating, it makes more sense from a business standpoint to give the student a minor penalty and allow them to continue their studies (i.e. purchasing access to more courses), than to end or suspend their academic career.

And this has also resulted in require more and more courses at ever increasing tuition. My mother and I, not long ago, compared how much she paid for college with her salary as a 1st year teacher. I think we figured out someone graduating from the same college today she attended would have to make nearly $90,000 as a first year teacher to equal the same proportion related to what my mother had. And that is OBVIOUSLY not happening.

Second, this is a natural extension of the ubiquity of the internet - looking up things has become second nature, and I think many students don't see the difference between using the internet as a resource to build their answers and simply getting the answers from the internet.

And I think that is a reflection more on educators not adapting to modern times.

At some level, most certainly understand that copying answers directly is wrong, but I'm not sure they see an issue with paraphrasing someone else's answers, for instance, since that is just another internet resource.

A significant amount of peer-reviewed research is literally paraphrasing other people's works. And there's a name for that and it is escaping me at the moment.

Third, as mentioned in the thread, most post-secondary education has become built around gatekeeping. How or what you gained from your education isn't assessed meaningfully in many cases. only your final scores. Moreover, there is a strong perception (probably right in some cases), that many requirements for post-secondary are superfluous . So, this is a feedback to point one, where education is becoming more about business than anything else and students are simply asking the business to hold up their part of the bargain (provide a degree) in return for the money they pay.

With the exception of elite post graduate career paths (medical school, law firms, etc.), how many businesses care one bit about high school or college GPA? Most just care if someone will come to work and is willing to learn.

To me, correcting this requires that education be publically funded. That way, operation can be separated from outcomes, and students can be treated as learners, not consumers. *snip for post count*

However, it wouldn't correct the problem that degrees have become a gate to employment (basically, another form of trade school, as mentioned). This creates pressure for success that will cause people to take short cuts. And while it is easy to judge such people (I certainly have a great deal of frustration with those that are academically dishonest), the reality is that expecting those taking a course/program that they have no interest in, and probably will never use the information from, to care about it is unrealistic. Of course, this ignores that while the information might not be needed, the process does cause people to grow as individuals and critical thinkers. But, these traits aren't being demanded by either society or employers, only the credentials, and so it is impossible to expect these individuals to see that.

This is a great conclusion to your post and I think your second paragraph highlights the insurmountable issues from your first. College should absolutely be publicly funded and available for little or no cost, but as long as colleges and society insist on college being nothing more than many hoops students have to jump through, I do not think you'll be able to meaningfully address the benefits of cheating.

Good post overall by the way. Very good.

 

[bongsaway]

Thank you for posting about the GED for anybody out there who didn't finish and has thought about it. You can do it.

And if I'd known then what I know now, I probably would've dropped out in 10th or 11th grade, taken the GED, and just gone on to college. Once I hit campus, I met a surprising number of students who had done just that and were in grad school at 21. (Getting on with it as quickly as you can, I learned, is a critical need for women who intend to have children.)

Well thank you Nota. I suppose a lot of kids are pushed into college by their parents who don't want to be there or don't want to be what their parents want them to be in life. Too many people measure success by how much money a person has and yet I find money has nothing in common with decency. I don't have kids but if I did, I think I've learned enough from other parents to allow my kids to be whatever they wanted. I would counsel them if I thought they were making a poor decision but in the end experiencing life is how we grow, especially when we hit bumps.

 

[nota bene]

There's nothing wrong with those who choose a path other than college after high school. But for those wanting to go to college, a gap year would be devastating for educational development.

But this would not be due to a gap year, but rather for an additional year of age and maturity. Which will happen either way.

In my extremely limited and somewhat anecdotal experience, younger students are more likely, in general, to drop classes, for a variety of reasons. Upper class students tend to have their path picked out and know what few courses they have remaining for graduation, but for younger students, they have more flexibility (for lack of a better word) in their courses.

In what way would delaying college entrance for a year or so be devastating to academic development? I ask because so many non-trad students, particularly veterans, are returning to complete their degrees. I have seen only entrance-delay benefits--more certainty about a degree plan, for example.

Raise your hand if you attended college at your parents' wish/insistence at 18. I did. It was the next thing, the expected thing, and my experience was of a glorified and continued high school with the added attraction of booze and no supervision by the "grups." Football and parties and boys. Not classes--I went to them so that I wouldn't have to move back home.

 

[nota bene]

I agree.

It's pretty stupid for people to make that assumption.

It can be grueling at times academically for a student preparing oneself in many professions, and a lot of people fail to understand this.

My sister went through a tough 6 years. She would called me once in a while when she knew I wasn't out to sea.........bawling her eyes out. I'd crack a few jokes and call her a ****ing sissy and we would both be laughing. She just needed her little brother to tell her it was going to be OK.

(((Hugs)))

 

[nota bene]

Well thank you Nota. I suppose a lot of kids are pushed into college by their parents who don't want to be there or don't want to be what their parents want them to be in life. Too many people measure success by how much money a person has and yet I find money has nothing in common with decency. I don't have kids but if I did, I think I've learned enough from other parents to allow my kids to be whatever they wanted. I would counsel them if I thought they were making a poor decision but in the end experiencing life is how we grow, especially when we hit bumps.

Yes, wise counsel. All I've ever learned from success was that I liked it and wanted more, LOL, but failure has always been deeply instructive, particularly those times I fail and found the will to try again and then succeeded.

I come from a privileged background. My parents were in the society pages and all of that, but at 16 there was a murder of one of their own (one that is still talked about today and has produced two books and a film). At 16 I made the decision to reject all of that, and here I sit at the beginning of what will be my "twilight years," and I remain glad and grateful. Not one of my parents' friends was happy or leading what I would define as a "successful life."

No doubt money makes misery much more comfortable...but it can truly be an impediment to character development. So often when people have real money, the rules actually don't apply to them, you know.

 

[Slyfox696]

In what way would delaying college entrance for a year or so be devastating to academic development?

In the same way the 3 months of summer break disrupts the learning process in K-12. The longer someone is away, the harder it is to retain the information.

I ask because so many non-trad students, particularly veterans, are returning to complete their degrees.

I think it would depend on when/where they are returning. Coming back to finish the last semester or two is a lot different than starting fresh at the age of 30.

Raise your hand if you attended college at your parents' wish/insistence at 18. I did. It was the next thing, the expected thing, and my experience was of a glorified and continued high school with the added attraction of booze and no supervision by the "grups."

And I think this is a fairly common experience. I went to college because I wanted to be a teacher and in order to be a teacher, I had to take 120-130 credit hours at a university in order to take my certification exam. Of all those credit hours, I took, I'd conservatively say at least half of them were incredibly irrelevant to my future career, even when factoring in hidden skills (such as critical thinking, writing, etc.). And while I never resorted to cheating (because I was just good at doing school), I never had a problem with those that did because, again, so much of college was a waste of time and, more importantly to the university, money.

Not classes--I went to them so that I wouldn't have to move back home.

I lived at home, so this wasn't a factor.

 

[bongsaway]

Yes, wise counsel. All I've ever learned from success was that I liked it and wanted more, LOL, but failure has always been deeply instructive, particularly those times I fail and found the will to try again and then succeeded.

I come from a privileged background. My parents were in the society pages and all of that, but at 16 there was a murder of one of their own (one that is still talked about today and has produced two books and a film). At 16 I made the decision to reject all of that, and here I sit at the beginning of what will be my "twilight years," and I remain glad and grateful. Not one of my parents' friends was happy or leading what I would define as a "successful life."

No doubt money makes misery much more comfortable...but it can truly be an impediment to character development. So often when people have real money, the rules actually don't apply to them, you know.

And I'm from the other end of society, not dirt poor but dang close. I remember my father telling me he wasn't able to really start saving any money until he was fifty and his kind of work ethic was, the only good reason to miss work, you're dead. He passed that thinking on to me. If nothing else in my working life, I was extremely dependable. My word was my bond and still is.

I must admit Nota, you have my interests piqued about your family. Care to share more?

 

[nota bene]

And I'm from the other end of society, not dirt poor but dang close. I remember my father telling me he wasn't able to really start saving any money until he was fifty and his kind of work ethic was, the only good reason to miss work, you're dead. He passed that thinking on to me. If nothing else in my working life, I was extremely dependable. My word was my bond and still is.

I must admit Nota, you have my interests piqued about your family. Care to share more?

Privately with you I will if you have questions I can answer.

Yes, my word is my guarantee. And I and my two little sisters grew up with a strong work ethic, all of us.

 

[Napoleon]

Very brief article, and I would like to observe that the Josephson Institute of Ethics has been tracking this for quite some time and that, sadly, became the norm long ago. What I always found fascinating was the fact that a majority of students ranked themselves as the most ethical person they know while also cheating. https://www.thefp.com/p/dishonor-code-what-happens-when-cheating

https://www.plagiarism.org/article/plagiarism-facts-and-stats

Cheating is bad in the sense that it reveals a lack of integrity, but is that meaningful in this context? I say no. Schools force reliance on memorization to an extent that just isn’t reflective of the real world. In every day life, if a person doesn’t know something they “cheat” by looking up the answer and we don’t punish them for doing that. Humans are not built to navigate life on memory alone.

 

[nota bene]

Cheating is bad in the sense that it reveals a lack of integrity, but is that meaningful in this context? I say no. Schools force reliance on memorization to an extent that just isn’t reflective of the real world. In every day life, if a person doesn’t know something they “cheat” by looking up the answer and we don’t punish them for doing that. Humans are not built to navigate life on memory alone.

Cheating is bad because it reveals a lack of integrity. I think you're trying to justify the unjustifiable here, and I don't believe that most people cheat because memorization is so hard. Cheating is a form of stealing, the theft of intellectual property. Maybe you don't know what it's like to have someone steal your work product and then publish and make money/enhance reputation.

 

[multivita-man]

Since the day I joined DP, I have bitched about those regard who college as a glorified trade school. Trust, I understand that a college degree is a "calling card" and also, frankly, that any old degree, including my undergrad one, will do.

I have 35+years now behind me as an academic, and from that position I will testify to the unreadiness of most students for college work. I think it was back in 2008 that the NY Times (or maybe its magazine) ran a "Back to School" article about how, in defiance of scientific law, what was going on in lower education had now trickled up. Oh, yes. Grade inflation, academic reward for "trying," and etc. have produced students with high school diplomas who can't understand an op/ed and who cannot write or do math either. But hey, so long as they earn that degree, it's all good.

Except it's not. It's a waste of time and money for students and the institutions. Those teaching the "core curriculum" courses (the generally required ones taken for the first two years of college) cannot teach to the course materials when they are having to "refresh" students' understanding of 8th-grade English or high school biology. My professional opinion is that (1) this country should encourage a "gap year," a year to think through and explore options and that (2) high schools should offer more practical training (cosmetology, auto repair, etc.) and that realistic emphasis should be placed on the increasingly valuable 2-year Associate of Applied Science degree (EMS, radiology tech, dental hygienist, network administration, and so on).

But none of these measures address cheating and the "ends justifying the means" as acceptable. And the battle was lost when the University of Virginia through out its honor code. The code was student-driven, by the way, and the bottom line was that if you were caught cheating, you were expelled.

Zero tolerance for academic dishonesty has my vote.

Make assessments that are cheat-proof.

Or cheat-resistant.

The academic paper is one form of assessment. Make them defend it orally. Make exit requirements include comps and portfolios, not just a thesis.

 

[nota bene]

Make assessments that are cheat-proof.

Or cheat-resistant.

The academic paper is one form of assessment. Make them defend it orally. Make exit requirements include comps and portfolios, not just a thesis.

Well, the ugly reality is that criminals tend to stay one jump ahead of the law. I remember the first time I saw a cheat sheet that was the inside of a Sprite label. Oral defense is a great idea, ditto requiring an annotated bibliography of sources. Strongly agree about requiring research papers, and all must be submitted to Turnitin.com. Not only do you bust plagiarist this way, but every paper is building an international database. Turnitin even sources message board posts that have been ripped off by lazy students. The good news is that lazy students who cheat are also lazy in their cheating and easy to catch. You can almost always tell even at DP when somebody's plagiarized.

 

[WillyPete]

It's very similar in some technical certifications, also.

The purpose of some certification "boot camps" is to actively teach the students how to cheat on the certification tests, because actually effectively covering the material in that timeframe is impossible.

I recall how my own instructor begged us to provide him with copies of any test questions we purchased, so he didn't have to pay extra himself.

It doesn't help that the cert providers rarely update their testing enough to actually teach anything of practical value.

 

[devildavid]

I saw a news story today that companies may be trending toward hiring policies that look at actual abilities and not if the applicant has a college degree. I think this is a good thing. College degrees are now just looked at at tickets to get into better paying jobs and not as a means to actual learning for the purpose of self improvement. My experience is that now anything less than a Masters is not sufficient to go for the better jobs but most of those that I knew with a Masters were actually worse at their jobs. I never got a Masters so I could be accused of jealousy or sour grapes but it seems to me that it really doesn’t make someone any more competent in a job or worthy of a higher position.

I think this attitude toward cheating has a lot to do with how a college degree is now viewed. But I also have observed that people in general have insufficient self awareness of their own faults and foibles. I have thought this for my entire life based on my observations of human behavior. So it doesn’t surprise me that cheaters don’t think of themselves as cheaters any more than bad drivers don’t see themselves as bad drivers. So there is no answer to making cheaters see themselves for what they are because there never has been an over abundance of self awareness in most human beings.

 

[Bum]

Yeah cheating for me is a huge nono. If my autistic ass can get an associates and bachelors despite having to catch up from basic algebra to calc 3 so can anyone else.

I feel your pain; I have battled dyscalculia my entire life...getting through nursing school and basic drug calculations was the first of many mathematics hurdles for me in school, the Army, and college.
Cheating serves no purpose; if you cannot do the work in an academic environment, you are not going to be able to perform in life and (at least in the medical realm) may very well hurt or kill someone with the inability to safely do the math.
Congrats on making it successfully.

 

[bomberfox]

I feel your pain; I have battled dyscalculia my entire life...getting through nursing school and basic drug calculations was the first of many mathematics hurdles for me in school, the Army, and college.
Cheating serves no purpose; if you cannot do the work in an academic environment, you are not going to be able to perform in life and (at least in the medical realm) may very well hurt or kill someone with the inability to safely do the math.
Congrats on making it successfully.

Thanks! I didnt know dyscalculia was a thing but yeah i agree. I knew dyslexia and what i have, dyspraxia is a thing.