Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming soon!

[Master PO]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

The government has a duty to remain secular, non-religious ideas are preferable to religious ones when making policy and national decisions. The government cannot support religious ideas within schools because doing so inevitably requires supporting one type of ideas over others, you wouldn't want the myth of the world being supported on the backs of an infinite tower of turtles to be taught in schools? Or how about a religious belief that not only finds homosexuality acceptable but desirable as well?

here again is the problem, you believe becuase your views are not religious, this so how gives you and others who think like you authority over those who are religious by promoting your beliefs to them......and thats not so.

 

[Wiseone]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

here again is the problem, you believe becuase your views are not religious, this so how gives you and others who think like you authority over those who are religious by promoting your beliefs to them......and thats not so.

Well it is so, the 1st amendment demands that the government be secular. I would not support a ban on gay marriage because a religious doctrine says gay marriage is wrong, just as I would not support stoning a woman for sleeping with a man before marriage because thats wrong as well. You say that religious views should not be quashed in government but what you really mean is, your religious views. Now I'm religious myself but I do not demand that others hold themselves to my views or that the government create law based around my religious views.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Well it is so, the 1st amendment demands that the government be secular. I would not support a ban on gay marriage because a religious doctrine says gay marriage is wrong, just as I would not support stoning a woman for sleeping with a man before marriage because thats wrong as well. You say that religious views should not be quashed in government but what you really mean is, your religious views. Now I'm religious myself but I do not demand that others hold themselves to my views or that the government create law based around my religious views.

ding ding ding

two PERFECT points many people wand their OWN religion protected or the law to follow it and dont care about others

and yes people like you , me and many others are religious but are educated enough to understand our religious views, morals etc isnt what needs to be law. The law needs to work for everybody the best it can.

and yes when it comes to legal marriage, religion is 100% meaningless to the debate.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

A Constitutional Amendment always changes the Constitution. And it doesn't matter if it's a religious-based amendment or a secular amendment.

And you do not have the support for that and will not have it without a huge shift in current politics and beliefs across the US. But most people do not want an Amendment to instill religious laws into the country. We learned how bad that is with the Amendment on Prohibition that then took decades to repeal.

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

I am concerned with their eternal security and the enlightenment that they are living in sin and need to turn to God. I don't hide behind that fact.

This thinking doesn't make most people question gays, it makes them question Christianity.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

This thinking doesn't make most people question gays, it makes them question Christianity.

Narrow is the path, many will choose to not take it.

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Narrow is the path, many will choose to not take it.

This also makes many people question Christianity.

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

I'm talking about the basis for the equal rights for gays, and that's entirely appropriate in this forum. I'm not going to let the liberal left throw God out of everything just because they think he's irrelevant.

His existence is faith based. Chances are, if a all mighty entity is out there, it isn't what you think it is. Faith based beings don't get a say in government. I have faith that my toaster is God, and my toaster says we should have equal rights. Is that valid in this debate?

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

This also makes many people question Christianity.

Ok.....do you have a point?

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

This thinking doesn't make most people question gays, it makes them question Christianity.

nah id say it makes people question its severely misguided followers

millions of Christians understand that religion is a personal thing and they dont want to force their views on others

then their are the once that are severely misguided and want to USE Christianity for judgement and to defend their evil, uncivil sinful bigotry when its supposed to be use for self guidance and enlightenment

its sad and pathetic really, its part of the problem with the world and not part of the solution

 

[Master PO]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Well it is so, the 1st amendment demands that the government be secular.

the 1st is a declaratory and restrictive clause that the federal government shall make no laws concerning the things listed in the amendment.

our federal government was created as secular, however the states were not created to be secular.

I would not support a ban on gay marriage because a religious doctrine says gay marriage is wrong,

i dont support a ban either, government has no authority to tell citizens they cannot create a contract with another person.

just as I would not support stoning a woman for sleeping with a man before marriage because thats wrong as well.

this is ancient Hebrew law, your stating.

You say that religious views should not be quashed in government but what you really mean is, your religious views.

government is not here to make religious laws, however they are not to be a foot on the neck of religion.

two different positions which i Speak.

i cannot use the power of government, to teach you my beliefs, Jesus was the son of god, that he raised a man from the dead, and fed many people with a couple of fish and loafs of bread, and he died for our sins..............now i get it,.........i dont have authority to instruct you in those views.

however:

you [or anyone else] cannot use the power of government ,to teach me views that jeaus was not the son of god, and he did not feed anyone, or didn't rise anyone from the dead, but that he was just a poor Jew, who had mental problems and thought he was the son of god, when he drank to much wine.......you dont have the authority to instruct me in that.

its the same for homosexuality, i cannot instruct you using government that its wrong, .....you cannot use the power of government to instruct me its right...........becuase you want to use the excuse your view is secular, and mine is religious.

being secular does not impart more power to your side to teach your views, the government is not a moral authority to instruct the people in what its believes is right, becuase of who temporary seats in the seat of office.

SO its not me......., telling anyone they have to believe in something , its those who believe they can instruct who ever they choose, becuase their views are not religious.

Now I'm religious myself but I do not demand that others hold themselves to my views or that the government create law based around my religious views.

as so do i, but do not want government promoting itself as a moral authority...becuase it has no powers in morality, sexuality of the people

however i will STILL get an argument,.............. from someone who sees because their side is not religious........this SOMEHOW gives them AUTHORITY TO PUSH THEIR BELIEFS on to other people by using government.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

From the Pope today

Pope Francis said today that he favors the right of gays to marry.In an interview with Lithuanian newspaper Rausva Plunksna, the leader of the Catholic Churchexplains that since gays are part of God's creation, they deserve the same rights and respect as all human beings.

"We have learned much about homosexuality in recent years," he told a reporter aboard the papal jet. "We now know that being gay isn't a choice, but something one is born with. If our Lord decides that someone should come into this world a certain way, who are we to judge his choice?
"And for those who do judge, where exactly in the Bible does it say marriage is reserved for heterosexual relationships? Is it in the Ten Commandments? I don't see it there. You'd think if stopping gay marriage were so important Jesus would have mentioned it - I don't know - maybe once in the Bible.
"The Bible mentions not eating shellfish more than it mentions homosexuality. And yet many anti-gay activists - including some Catholics - are running around eating shrimp and telling others what to do with their lives. I view these people as bigoted and ungodly and I will confront them during my time as pontiff. Who are we to tell anyone who to love? "

"Some people believe that religion is all about getting to heaven," he explains" These people try to prove to God that they're more deserving than others. So they decide to judge entire groups of people -- minorities, immigrants, single mothers -- to make themselves look better in God's eyes.
"But the Lord does not look kindly upon such judgement. All human beings are equal before his eyes. And saying 'I am holier than him because he is gay or because he speaks a different language' -- this is a strategy that is bound to fail."

seems the pope gets it
<sits back and waits for outrage over article>

 

[Logicman]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

His existence is faith based. Chances are, if a all mighty entity is out there, it isn't what you think it is. Faith based beings don't get a say in government. I have faith that my toaster is God, and my toaster says we should have equal rights. Is that valid in this debate?

When you can bust the multiple-attested to resurrection of Jesus Christ then you will have shown Christianity is nothing but a faith movement, vs. the evidence.

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Ok.....do you have a point?

When Christians try to shove their religion down other Americans throats they're only hurting Christianity.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

From the Pope today..seems the pope gets it

Evidently he doesn't, if he approves of gay marriage. It's an abomination.

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

When you can bust the multiple-attested to resurrection of Jesus Christ then you will have shown Christianity is nothing but a faith movement, vs. the evidence.

I trust scientific evidence. As you should know, witnesses are generally unreliable.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

When you can bust the multiple-attested to resurrection of Jesus Christ then you will have shown Christianity is nothing but a faith movement, vs. the evidence.

Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, especially when they have been translated and rewritten by others.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Evidently he doesn't, if he approves of gay marriage. It's an abomination.

you are welcome to that opinion but its meaningless and the fact is he does.

see the reality you arent getting is, he didnt say his church should religiously marry gays, he said they should have the same LEGAL RIGHTS as every other HUMAN BEING

this is where your posts fail all the time and get destroyed by many posters, some how you seem to think religion has anything to do with legal marriage. It factually does not and your opinion on legal marriage is meaningless.

I love it, its hilarious, you lose to facts again.

 

[Master PO]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Evidently he doesn't, if he approves of gay marriage. It's an abomination.

there are people here who want to say i am partisan on religion.

you view gay marriage as a abomination, and i understand how you think, however government is not a moral authority to tell the people what is right or wrong in their personal life's, ..it has not been given that authority, and it is authority that government has the power to act on.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

I trust scientific evidence. As you should know, witnesses are generally unreliable.

Then the next time your wife or significant other comes home be sure to give them a DNA test.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, especially when they have been translated and rewritten by others.

I think having lived with Jesus 3 1/2 years they knew him pretty well. And I seriously doubt when you witness someone crucified and see them walking around 3 days later with no problem, then you've got a hell of a story to write about.

And you can diss one or two, but all four Gospel writers, plus others, confirm the resurrection.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

you are welcome to that opinion but its meaningless and the fact is he does.

see the reality you arent getting is, he didnt say his church should religiously marry gays, he said they should have the same LEGAL RIGHTS as every other HUMAN BEING

this is where your posts fail all the time and get destroyed by many posters, some how you seem to think religion has anything to do with legal marriage. It factually does not and your opinion on legal marriage is meaningless.

I love it, its hilarious, you lose to facts again.

Well, I hope someday you get born again so your eyes will be opened.

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

Then the next time your wife or significant other comes home be sure to give them a DNA test.

:lamo Not very logical logicman. My girlfriend doesn't assert herself into politicals. I don't use her to judge people.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

:lamo Not very logical logicman. My girlfriend doesn't assert herself into politicals. I don't use her to judge people.

It doesn't matter if its politics or religion.

You say eyewitnesses are unreliable. You would be an eyewitness to your girlfriend, so according to your logic you're not reliable.

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Discrimination is losing, Equality is winning, equal rights for gays is coming so

It doesn't matter if its politics or religion.

You say eyewitnesses are unreliable. You would be an eyewitness to your girlfriend, so according to your logic you're not reliable.

Oh, my bad. I didn't understand your laughable comparison at first. It's a little different when the eyewitness in question is yourself. :lol: Also, I'm not an eyewitness from thousands of years ago, and there is nothing that proves Jesus wasn't just a cult leader, executed on the cross like thousands of other people under Roman rule. Anyway, I don't want to get too off subject here. Point is, your religious teachings don't get to decide law. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."