Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future President (1 Viewer)

[TheDemSocialist]

CIA Director John Brennan told NBC News in an exclusive interview that his agency will not engage in harsh "enhanced interrogation" practices, including waterboarding, which critics call torture — even if ordered to by a future president.
"I will not agree to carry out some of these tactics and techniques I've heard bandied about because this institution needs to endure," Brennan said.

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump has said that if elected president, he'd authorize the use of waterboarding which was banned in 2009. Trump said the technique, considered torture under international law, and other methods he characterized as "a hell of a lot worse" would be used to extract information from potential terrorists.
When asked specifically about waterboarding Brennan could not have been clearer.
"Absolutely, I would not agree to having any CIA officer carrying out waterboarding again," he said.

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Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on...

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

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Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on... [/FONT][/COLOR]

Umm-hmmm. At least until a change of CIA Director under a new administration goes into effect. Policies come and policies go...that's how government works. :shrug:

 

[Socrates1]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Read more @: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future President

Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on... [/FONT][/COLOR]

More BS ! I'm sure he has already .

 

[Chomsky]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Is this the CIA's "Trump Response"?

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Read more @: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future President

Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on... [/FONT][/COLOR]

Exactly.

It's not quite the defiant stand it sounds like. I think we're still using rendition to places that do tortures beyond waterboarding...

Besides, if a CiC wanted to order water-boarding, he's just can every CIA agent who refused.




Basically, I read this as saying "If we waterboard, we just won't tell you about it..."

 

[Erod]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Translation: "We have places to send these folks to do far worse than waterboarding, and our hands are clean."

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Brennan and most of his cohorts have already been caught lying several times.

Why should I believe what John Brennan says?

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Translation: "We have places to send these folks to do far worse than waterboarding, and our hands are clean."

Good. Why should I care if some AQ scumbag gets vanished?

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Good. Why should I care if some AQ scumbag gets vanished?

Why you should care that the "land of the free, home of the brave" - the country that's supposed to be the counter-point to tyrannical torturing governments - tortures people and/or arranges for people to be tortured?

You don't say where you live, but I hope you aren't American. Too many of my fellow Americans have forgotten that in order to be principled, you have to actually respect principles. Too many are willing to sink to the level of whomever we are fighting. In other words, torture doesn't become OK just because you think or know the victim is a bad person. Torture is simply wrong period.

A paraphrase of a better known quote: if you go after ISIS because they're evil, you must take care not to become evil yourself in the process.

 

[radcen]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Read more @: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future President

Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on... [/FONT][/COLOR]

I believe your suspicions are correct.

"We no longer do that." (But, our subcontractors do.)

Umm-hmmm. At least until a change of CIA Director under a new administration goes into effect. Policies come and policies go...that's how government works. :shrug:

Yep. Brennan can't guarantee what future administrations will do or not do.

 

[smb]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Exactly.

It's not quite the defiant stand it sounds like. I think we're still using rendition to places that do tortures beyond waterboarding...

Besides, if a CiC wanted to order water-boarding, he's just can every CIA agent who refused.




Basically, I read this as saying "If we waterboard, we just won't tell you about it..."

Not really. This was done for several reasons. Do not think for a second that Brennen is against water boarding at the CIA for altruistic reasons. Brennen knows that any administration that requests this type activity will leave the CIA holding the bag like the Bush Admin did. So he comes out now and says emphatically the CIA will not do this. This accomplishes two things, gives future CIA officers that refuse to perform these techniques legal cover and it automatically makes this and issue with the confirmation hearing of the next CIA director. Brennen does not want CIA officers involved with this because, whether or not and individual administration can get some legal hack to sign off on it or not it will be determined illegal and he does not want any CIA officers left holding the bag.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Why you should care that the "land of the free, home of the brave" - the country that's supposed to be the counter-point to tyrannical torturing governments - tortures people and/or arranges for people to be tortured?

You don't say where you live, but I hope you aren't American. Too many of my fellow Americans have forgotten that in order to be principled, you have to actually respect principles. Too many are willing to sink to the level of whomever we are fighting. In other words, torture doesn't become OK just because you think or know the victim is a bad person. Torture is simply wrong period.

A paraphrase of a better known quote: if you go after ISIS because they're evil, you must take care not to become evil yourself in the process.

The problem with that is that often times it ties one hand behind your back, while the terrorists can take advantage of your decency to kill American soldiers.

In Mogadishu, for instance, there was more than one report of Somali fighters using women and kids as spotters or human shields.

It's bullcrap that terrorists can attack civillians and then try to hide behind the Geneva convention and our morality to avoid having to pay for their crimes.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Not really. This was done for several reasons. Do not think for a second that Brennen is against water boarding at the CIA for altruistic reasons. Brennen knows that any administration that requests this type activity will leave the CIA holding the bag like the Bush Admin did. So he comes out now and says emphatically the CIA will not do this. This accomplishes two things, gives future CIA officers that refuse to perform these techniques legal cover and it automatically makes this and issue with the confirmation hearing of the next CIA director. Brennen does not want CIA officers involved with this because, whether or not and individual administration can get some legal hack to sign off on it or not it will be determined illegal and he does not want any CIA officers left holding the bag.

Yep, he's protecting the rank and file of his organization. Washington DC, original designator of the CYA defense.

 

[Northern Light]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

So what?

They outsource their torturers now probably. Not to mention there are other methods in their arsenal.

I don't trust this benevolent policy making, it's just PR non-sense in light of Gitmo starting to finally shut down.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

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Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on... [/FONT][/COLOR]

The interviewer should have asked those questions. Shows poor journalism or the CIA controlled the questions.

 

[chromium]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

what a reckless and BS statement for a number of reasons

1) the CIA serves at the behest of national security, not the other way around. National security trumps his 'institution enduring'

2) a different director will not be of his opinion, and i doubt he can influence everything done by the CIA's agents of torture thousands of miles away who are seemingly above the law, any more than an official line prevented abu grahib or blackwater atrocities

3) events like 9/11 always provoke hysteria in which principles we clung to beforehand cease to function. He's saying this now and someone disavowed torture and limits on free speech as of september 10, 2001 and someone disavowed concentration camps as of december 6, 1941, and troops killing unarmed civilians before kent state, and martial law and POW starvation camps before the civil war. Some other asshole will make the same kind of vow 15 years after the next national tragedy, and it will still mean nothing, because it's only during those times that we can prove our principles endure....and they never do

 

[smb]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Yep, he's protecting the rank and file of his organization. Washington DC, original designator of the CYA defense.

Since when did protecting your employees from legal action become a bad thing? Isn't that what bosses are supposed to do? I don't understand your objection.

 

[Van Basten]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

He said the CIA, he didn't say for the rest of the US intelligence community.

So, I believe him.

 

[Casper]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Read more @: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future President

Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on... [/FONT][/COLOR]

Good, we shall see if we continue with that in the future.

 

[DaveFagan]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Read more @: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future President

Well its good that CIA officers wont waterboard again. But what about CIA contractors who waterboard? CIA foreign partners working in CIA-paid jails? What about them? I have a suspicion that their waterboard activities will go on... [/FONT][/COLOR]

This is the same CIA that provided false intel on Iraq. The same bozos that assisted Bush in getting his War on. The CIA boss was given the Medal of Freedom for complying with Bush demands to cull the intel. That would be like Britain's scheme to make the evidence fit the narrative. Lies by any other name. Disband the CIA. Sooner is better.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

What is all the hub bub about anyhow?

As an intensive interrogation technique it has proven to successfully separate information from reluctant "informers" with minimal long term effects if allowed to be done properly. Does not mean we have dropped to the level of our enemies who cut off people's heads with dull knives, who crash airplanes full of innocent people into buildings where other innocent people are also killed immediately. Those unfortunate enough to survive above them in the building then subjected to the horrible terror of trying to withstand the growing heat or jumping from a 110 story building to certain death. Those below were terrified until the building collapsed and killed them if they did not get out in time.

Life is an assortment of trade offs and I can most certainly say I have no problem using this technique on folks who, like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, cut Daniel Peal's head off with that dull knife, that planned those attacks in which thousands of American innocents were heinously murdered, who have and would do us more harm.

They have a choice, they don't have to be waterboarded, they could simply give the information up. Problem solved, no necessity to waterboard.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

Since when did protecting your employees from legal action become a bad thing? Isn't that what bosses are supposed to do? I don't understand your objection.

In this instance its a way of pushing legal culpability without admitting anything.

 

[smb]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

In this instance its a way of pushing legal culpability without admitting anything.

How do you figure that? The CIA readily admitted that used, what almost all would consider, torture. They are not, not admitting anything. They admitted they used torture techniques. This is for the future not the past. This is to ensure that every officer that refuses an order will have more than just their conscience as defense. This also ensures that the person nominated for CIA director will have to directly answer this question. As far as the contractor argument that has been made on this forum it is a moot point. Legally speaking a person you contract to do perform work is your responsibility. If the CIA hires contractors to perform work that would otherwise be illegal the people that hired the contractors are just as liable as the people performing the illegal activity.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

How do you figure that? The CIA readily admitted that used, what almost all would consider, torture. They are not, not admitting anything. They admitted they used torture techniques. This is for the future not the past. This is to ensure that every officer that refuses an order will have more than just their conscience as defense. This also ensures that the person nominated for CIA director will have to directly answer this question. As far as the contractor argument that has been made on this forum it is a moot point. Legally speaking a person you contract to do perform work is your responsibility. If the CIA hires contractors to perform work that would otherwise be illegal the people that hired the contractors are just as liable as the people performing the illegal activity.

It insulates the rank and file.

 

[smb]

Re: Director Brennan: CIA Won't Waterboard Again — Even if Ordered by Future Presiden

It insulates the rank and file.

How does it insulate anyone? It does give them cover when they refuse the order to torture but it cannot and does not insulate people who torture.