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Dick & Liz

calamity said:
Well, I don't want to send anyone else there. Do you want your friends to die or be maimed over more patches of useless sand? That's what it boils down to.

I agree Iraq has issues. I also supported the invasion until it became clear that we were making things worse and not better, especially for our men and women. So, I'm on board with us drone striking anything we don't like that moves over there though. Not a problem. But, I'm not cool with any more Americans getting their legs blown off by IED's.

Hey. If you want to go back, you're free to join Blackwater, or whatever the hell it is they call themselves now. We might even put together a few tax dollars bucks to support you all in your effort to kill "terrorists".
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still with the sand,what do you have against sand,would you be ok if we invaded canada and massacred its people because trees were there instead of sand????
 
Grant said:
I think Americans can do good, and I always have thought them the most generous people anywhere. But now they cannot protect themselves and are turning against each other on a grand scale.

This is an entirely new country we see now from the first 200 years of its existence, and it will not last. You've not the money to do much good anymore anyway. It's become the brokest country in the history of the world.
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because people have lost the ability to try and believe.
 
calamity said:
But yet, you are one who gripes about Obama deposing Ghaddaffi and his corrupt boys. Right?

I had no problem with us killing Saddam and his two sadistic kids. I supported that part of the war. What I do not support is a 10-year nation building commitment.
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Me either.
 
calamity said:
Sometimes I throw in snarky remarks to vent some anger.
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Okay. I get that. I try real hard not to do anything that gets people angry at me. It happens sometimes, but I try to prevent it. And, I can be just as snarky as the next guy. What makes a good person different from a bad person, is the ability to recognize and admit it when it happens. So, that puts you in the former not the latter, IMO - at least when ever you've talked with me on here. Being snarky is an art. And, you're good at it. So am I, but I try not to get dinged by the Mods so I try and lay off of it. In fact, sometimes I will rewrite and rewrite a response, just to try and remove the snark. Although, many times I hit "Post Quick Reply" before my common sense can catch up to my typing.

calamity said:
My point on fighting for sand was not meant to imply land grab, it was meant as a military term to represent "taking the next hill."nSorry about the confusion.

I am ok with boots on the ground in special ops like in the raid to to get Osama. And, I truly do like the Blackwater option for providing asset "security". Recon and other intelligence of course too need to be deployed. What I don't want to see is an occupying army like we had from 2004 through 2010.
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I don't want a full on deployment either. Trust me when I say that there's no one in the military, including the Joint Chiefs, that want a full on invasion of any place. However, if it comes to that, everyone in the military trains for that and will do there duty. All that said, even though neither you, nor I, nor anyone that has ever been in battle or has the responsibility to go into battle want to go, it may come to that, if what you suggest (that I agree with completely by the way) isn't enough to either at the minimum, stem the tide, or best case to reverse their emergence and growing power.

These guys are more of a threat to the world, the US and our allies in particular, than bin Laden ever was. Hell, al Qaeda wouldn't let ISIS join them because they were, now get this... too cruel and militant.

We have to do something about them. Doing nothing, unfortunately, is not an option with these guys.
 
Grant said:
Americans have turned on themselves. Red States against Blue States, Black against White, the War on Women, left versus Right, and so it goes, all exploited by the lowest politicians I;ve ever seen anywhere.

Here is just the latest on who many Americans are support and elect. Nancy Pelosi bashes Supreme Court, says we should 'be afraid' | Early & Often
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maybe it is because liberals like me are accused of being communist, Fascists, and nazis by conservatives and we are tired of having our patriotism being questioned because we disagree with conservatives.

i do not like being put in the same camp as the nazis.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Okay. I get that. I try real hard not to do anything that gets people angry at me. It happens sometimes, but I try to prevent it. And, I can be just as snarky as the next guy. What makes a good person different from a bad person, is the ability to recognize and admit it when it happens. So, that puts you in the former not the latter, IMO - at least when ever you've talked with me on here. Being snarky is an art. And, you're good at it. So am I, but I try not to get dinged by the Mods so I try and lay off of it. In fact, sometimes I will rewrite and rewrite a response, just to try and remove the snark. Although, many times I hit "Post Quick Reply" before my common sense can catch up to my typing.



I don't want a full on deployment either. Trust me when I say that there's no one in the military, including the Joint Chiefs, that want a full on invasion of any place. However, if it comes to that, everyone in the military trains for that and will do there duty. All that said, even though neither you, nor I, nor anyone that has ever been in battle or has the responsibility to go into battle want to go, it may come to that, if what you suggest (that I agree with completely by the way) isn't enough to either at the minimum, stem the tide, or best case to reverse their emergence and growing power.

These guys are more of a threat to the world, the US and our allies in particular, than bin Laden ever was. Hell, al Qaeda wouldn't let ISIS join them because they were, now get this... too cruel and militant.

We have to do something about them. Doing nothing, unfortunately, is not an option with these guys.
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The non-existent WMD has also come into play again. Iraq: 'Terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

Isis seizes former chemical weapons plant in Iraq | World news | theguardian.com
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
maybe it is because liberals like me are accused of being communist, Fascists, and nazis by conservatives and we are tired of having our patriotism being questioned because we disagree with conservatives.

i do not like being put in the same camp as the nazis.
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In fact liberals were very sympathetic to Communists so thats something you'll just have to live with. But I never mentioned anything like so it doesn't really relate to my post.

But these are the facts. Gallup poll confirms: US conservatives are more patriotic than liberals – Telegraph Blogs
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
i don't like my political leaning be denigrated with no just cause.

and the "left vrs right" conflict is influenced by the accusation of being communists.
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I never said that, though anti Americanism obviously does come from the left and much of this is result of the Cold War, when the anti Americanism was relentless. Despite America finally winning that war, though many leftists deny it, we can still see its consequences today. You were obviously influenced by Communists, as are all leftists, but that doesn't mean you are a communist.
 
Grant said:
I never said that, though anti Americanism obviously does come from the left and much of this is result of the Cold War, when the anti Americanism was relentless. Despite America finally winning that war, though many leftists deny it, we can still see its consequences today. You were obviously influenced by Communists, as are all leftists, but that doesn't mean you are a communist.
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i have never supported the psychopathic views of stalin. i don't believe that simply believing in the value of equality makes one a communist like stalin.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
i don't like my political leaning be denigrated with no just cause.

and the "left vrs right" conflict is influenced by the accusation of being communists.
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But there is a just cause. You just have to accept that.

Nobody has called you a communist.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
i have never supported the psychopathic views of stalin. i don't believe that simply believing in the value of equality makes one a communist like stalin.
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You seem to have gone off somewhere to a land with which I'm not familiar. Have a nice visit.
 
Grant said:
You seem to have gone off somewhere to a land with which I'm not familiar. Have a nice visit.
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this is my understanding of communism.

communism is represented by the policies of stalin .

no liberal politician is advocating stalin policies.

every time some one makes a blanket statment about liberalism, i get insulted.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
this is my understanding of communism.

communism is represented by the policies of stalin .

no liberal politician is advocating stalin policies.

every time some one makes a blanket statment about liberalism, i get insulted.
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Yes, you are a product of your times, all right.
 
Paxaeon said:
`
The title to the thread is stupid....

.....That having been said, We should have left Saddam alone, Period.

A - The US Government (and corporate US) has a long and rich history of using and supporting tyrants, despots, madmen and dictators so long as they suit our needs and usually that is OIL.

B - The US also has a long and rich history of ignoring countries where there has been near genocide, Cambodia, China, Uganda, Russia and Sudan.

C - Saddam was a tool of the US and CIA and among other things, waged a proxy war against Iran for 9 years which was backed by the US. Both sides lost over a million people. The war was a stalemate and bankrupted Iraq.

D – The US did not learn a lesson from Yugoslavia and Marshal Josip Tito. A ruthless dictator, Tito ruled over a country of varying ethnic backgrounds with enmities stretching back hundreds of years. The only way to rule there was with an iron fist…but life was good and order was maintained. When Tito died in 1980, chaos took place and hundreds of thousands were murdered. The peace there even now, 30 years later, is tenuous.

Like with Tito, Saddam had to be ruthless in keeping the Shi'a and Sunni apart and dealing with the Kurds whose PKK was on the US Terrorist Watch List. When George Bush launched his immoral invasion of Iraq based on lies, he broke apart the secular Ba'athist party which kept peace and order in Iraq.

Life was actually better under Saddam than before the Bush’s invasion.
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I disagree... totalitarian dictators are never "good"... life is never "good" under their bootheels.

the correct response to totalitarian dictators, anywhere, is to exterminate them with extreme malice....every single one of them.
(warring on the people, however, is unnecessary and counterproductive)


I nearly get sick to my stomach when I hear so called "liberals /progressives" advocate for totalitarian dictators... they are antithetical to liberalism and/or progressivism.
what you are actually saying is that the people ( in this case, of Iraq) are subhumans who cannot be trusted to be free, so they should be ruled by a murderous tyrant to keep "order".
 
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