Demoracts: Do You Support Maduro in Venezuela?

[Fledermaus]

Wrong in Iraq, Ukraine, Libya, Syria and now Venezuela.
The Company line, I presume. DoD BOT!
\/

Another post with zero thought or substance.


Where do you get your "history" from?

Conspiracy sites and RT.com?

 

[cpwill]

Sanctions a/k/a USA interference in a Sovereign Nations trade have caused Venezuelans economic distress. One makes themselves an obvious toady to attempt to distort that reality.
The Company line, I presume. DoD BOT!
\/

Socialism: So Awesome, it can't survive unless propped up with trade from more capitalist nations.


Great argument, Dave.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[DaveFagan]

Socialism: So Awesome, it can't survive unless propped up with trade from more capitalist nations.


Great argument, Dave.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

The USA froze billions of dollars of Venezuelan assets in USA banks and applied sanctions resulting in poverty and distress for Venezuelans.
\/

 

[Masterhawk]

I'm not a democrat (and thus haven't voted on this poll) but here are my thoughts on the matter. Although I do not support the sanctions on Venezuela, the country has been ruined by bad government policies. GDP has been in decline since 2013, infant morality is on the rise, and the value of the bolivar has been in freefall. It's really tragic too because Venezuela is one of the most resource rich countries in the world. During the 60s and 70s, Venezuela was the envy of Latin America, thanks to its vast oil reserves. During the 80s and 90s, Venezuela was going through hard financial times due to the drop in price for oil (exacerbated by policies and corruption which made the country even more dependent on oil) but it was still a more desirable place to live than Colombia which was going through a civil war between marxist insurgents, gang members, and the government alongside right wing paramilitaries. Now, not only is the country in a financial crisis, but if the Observatory of Venezuelan Violence is reliable, Venezuela has a violent death rate equivalent to many warzones (this can't be completely blamed on the Venezuelan government as El Salvador has even higher murder rates but the government certainly bears some of it as they have failed to tackle corruption and have created safe zones where gangs can operate without worry) at 90 per 100,000 (by comparison, Brazil is 30 and Colombia is 25). As a result, 3-4 million Venezuelans have left the country. There are verifiable accounts of Venezuelans going to Colombia, not as people aspiring to be part of the land of opportunity but as desperate individuals looking to flee a country where the grocery stores are often empty and crime has reached warzone levels.

 

[Oborosen]

The USA has offerred NO humanitarian aid to Venezuela. USA/OBAMA energy sanctions have killed the Venezuelan economy and caused poverty and chaos. The USA is responsible for this crisis and is in no way a helpful influence in that Nation. Any one who buys the MSM NARRATIVE that we are trying to help Venezuela needs their head examined. This is the most blatant interference in South American politics since we used the CIA to have Allende killed and installed Pinochet in Chile and just as evil.
Maduro is elected, not a dictsator, May 2018 with 60% of the popular vote. He follows in the footsteps of Chavez who was elected 7 times to institute a Bolivarian Republic/Socialism in Venezuela. A MSM narrative that states either of these individuals is/was a dictator is absolutely false and condemns that Media and citizens should take note.
\/

Yeah... no. We can see the evils that happening there and it's been a very long time since the US has actually been in the mix, on the kind of level you're currently saying.

Maduro is just as bad as his predecessor. In fact he's just like him, save for the charisma. The man is basically a tyrant at this point. Who doesn't care for the damage that he and his mentor have brought about.

 

[Fledermaus]

The USA froze billions of dollars of Venezuelan assets in USA banks and applied sanctions resulting in poverty and distress for Venezuelans.
\/

Once again the Mr. RT.com both swings and he misses.

Dictator Maduro's assets were frozen. Not Venezuela's.

And this post dates the economic woes in Valenzuela by years....

 

[DaveFagan]

Once again the Mr. RT.com both swings and he misses.

Dictator Maduro's assets were frozen. Not Venezuela's.

And this post dates the economic woes in Valenzuela by years....

Wrong, per usual. Excellent repeat of the gubmint NARRATIVE
\/

 

[DaveFagan]

Yeah... no. We can see the evils that happening there and it's been a very long time since the US has actually been in the mix, on the kind of level you're currently saying.

Maduro is just as bad as his predecessor. In fact he's just like him, save for the charisma. The man is basically a tyrant at this point. Who doesn't care for the damage that he and his mentor have brought about.

You need to stop imbibing the nonsense from the gubmint propaganda machine, read some objective news/truth ans quit watching TV. The truth is out there but you deny it.
\/

 

[cpwill]

The USA froze billions of dollars of Venezuelan assets in USA banks and applied sanctions resulting in poverty and distress for Venezuelans.
\/

Socialism: So Awesome, It Can't Survive Unless Propped Up By Capitalism.

Winning argument, there, Dave.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[cpwill]

Once again the Mr. RT.com both swings and he misses.

Dictator Maduro's assets were frozen. Not Venezuela's.

And this post dates the economic woes in Valenzuela by years....

:shrug: those who instinctively assign America the role of Bad Guy don't care about information. They care about finding an excuse.

This is, as you note, a particularly bad one, but it's all they've got.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[jet57]

Recently the chair of the Venezuelan legislature was elected President and Maduro was declared to be a usurper in response to the unrest and deprivation in that country.

The whole thing gets right back down to another Cuba. From what I've learned so far, Maduro was legally elected, but of course with him comes Russian support and that is the crux of the issue.

 

[jet57]

I support Maduro. We have no business in the internal Politics of Venezuela. USA sanctions have created the poverty in Venezuela. We should be helping that Nation, not adding to their misery.
\/

What about the Russian support for him? This skirts the line of the Monroe doctrine. It's the county's oil that everybody is after, this isn't happening in Mexico.

 

[jet57]

I am not a Democrat, but here’s what I’ll say.

There’s a lot of misinformation and especially from conservatives a lot of nonsense when it comes to talking about the issues with Venezuela, when the reason things are the way they are go back a ways and are complex, but one simple fact and lesson of the Venezuelan crisis is, it’s exactly why you don’t tie your entire economy to a single commodity.

Ultimately the Maduro regime is a criminal enterprise masquerading as a country, it has no legitimacy whatsoever and while I dont know if the current approach may bring about change given the security forces are on side and deeply involved in criminal activity themselves such as drug trafficking it’s doubtful they will switch sides.

Venezuela is also a lesson on why strong democratic institutions capable of holding their leaders accountable are so important.

The people have suffered enough, Maduro and his corrupt regime has to go and him and many who are around him, frankly deserve to die for what they’ve done to their people.

Viva Venezuela!

He IS a leftist, and the US has crippled the country with sanctions but what do you offer that shows that Maduro is more corrupt than any other leader? He was duly elected, but we just don't like him because Putin does...

 

[DaveFagan]

Socialism: So Awesome, It Can't Survive Unless Propped Up By Capitalism.

Winning argument, there, Dave.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

I'll rephrase that. The USA is stealing billions of dollars from Venezuela. It can't survive being sabotaged by the USA/Corporatism. I think the USA has just crowned a person that didn't run for election in Venezuela as the new President. Democracy being promoted by a non-Democracy(USA)? Yes, indeedy. The USA history shows we peddle chaos, poverty, destrucion followed by lots of death. See Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Panama, Vietnam, Granada, Haiti, Guatamala, Honduras, ad infinitum. Only about 20 million dead. And you want more. Get a grip.,
\/

 

[jet57]

The USA froze billions of dollars of Venezuelan assets in USA banks and applied sanctions resulting in poverty and distress for Venezuelans.
\/

A lot of it was for money laundering.

 

[jet57]

Yeah... no. We can see the evils that happening there and it's been a very long time since the US has actually been in the mix, on the kind of level you're currently saying.

Maduro is just as bad as his predecessor. In fact he's just like him, save for the charisma. The man is basically a tyrant at this point. Who doesn't care for the damage that he and his mentor have brought about.

What do you base those assertions on?

 

[Fledermaus]

I'll rephrase that. The USA is stealing billions of dollars from Venezuela. It can't survive being sabotaged by the USA/Corporatism. I think the USA has just crowned a person that didn't run for election in Venezuela as the new President. Democracy being promoted by a non-Democracy(USA)? Yes, indeedy. The USA history shows we peddle chaos, poverty, destrucion followed by lots of death. See Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Panama, Vietnam, Granada, Haiti, Guatamala, Honduras, ad infinitum. Only about 20 million dead. And you want more. Get a grip.,
\/

Rant rant rant USA rant rant rant sanctions rant rant....

DaveFagan, why do you support virtual dictators?

 

[Fledermaus]

Wrong, per usual. Excellent repeat of the gubmint NARRATIVE
\/

Wrong?

SHOW ME.

 

[DaveFagan]

What about the Russian support for him? This skirts the line of the Monroe doctrine. It's the county's oil that everybody is after, this isn't happening in Mexico.

We sabotage Venezuela's efforts to develop their own system and economy and Russia supports those efforts. The USA doesn't want a successful Socialist Nation because it might make USA type CORPORATISM look bad and begin a trend toward Socialism in the USA. We can't be taking away from the haves and giving to the have nots. Hell, no. UnAmerican even. That is the motivating force behind the current Venezuela debacle. Once again, created by the USA. IF we hadn't sanctioned Venezuela and froze their funds we would not be culpable, but it's obvious.
\/

 

[jet57]

We sabotage Venezuela's efforts to develop their own system and economy and Russia supports those efforts. The USA doesn't want a successful Socialist Nation because it might make USA type CORPORATISM look bad and begin a trend toward Socialism in the USA. We can't be taking away from the haves and giving to the have nots. Hell, no. UnAmerican even. That is the motivating force behind the current Venezuela debacle. Once again, created by the USA. IF we hadn't sanctioned Venezuela and froze their funds we would not be culpable, but it's obvious.
\/

There is a lot of truth in what you say there, however what about Russian footholds in our hemisphere? The oil IS the prize, and if it weren't, people really wouldn't have card about Chavez. So, we're looking at another Syria in my view.

 

[DaveFagan]

Rant rant rant USA rant rant rant sanctions rant rant....

DaveFagan, why do you support virtual dictators?

I don't support Trump!
\/

 

[DaveFagan]

Wrong?

SHOW ME.

Your flagrant and repetitive lack of truthful information speaks for itself. I suggest you wean off the gubmint Narrative and try truth.
OOOPSIE, I forgot you got to check with Pete so you can repeat.
\/

 

[Fledermaus]

We sabotage Venezuela's efforts to develop their own system and economy and Russia supports those efforts. The USA doesn't want a successful Socialist Nation because it might make USA type CORPORATISM look bad and begin a trend toward Socialism in the USA. We can't be taking away from the haves and giving to the have nots. Hell, no. UnAmerican even. That is the motivating force behind the current Venezuela debacle. Once again, created by the USA. IF we hadn't sanctioned Venezuela and froze their funds we would not be culpable, but it's obvious.
\/

What a simplistic and WRONG way to look at things.

 

[cpwill]

I'll rephrase that. The USA is stealing billions of dollars from Venezuela. It can't survive being sabotaged by the USA/Corporatism. I think the USA has just crowned a person that didn't run for election in Venezuela as the new President. Democracy being promoted by a non-Democracy(USA)? Yes, indeedy. The USA history shows we peddle chaos, poverty, destrucion followed by lots of death. See Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Panama, Vietnam, Granada, Haiti, Guatamala, Honduras, ad infinitum. Only about 20 million dead. And you want more. Get a grip.,
\/

[emoji38]

Socialism: so awesome, it counts as stealing if Capitalism doesn't prop it up.


#Winning

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[eohrnberger]

Not sure of the election that brought Maduro was legitimate. Haven't the UN expressed concerns about that already?
We already know that Maduro's corrupt regime has not only packed the national assembly, but also their courts.

Seems most of the world's democracies are supporting the challenger. They may have something there.

Not interfering in another sovereign nation's internal politics is well worth noting. We certainly don't even like the appearance of it happening in ours, why should they like it when we do in theirs?