"Democrats, you do NOT want to nominate Joe Biden"

[jpn]

What's better, torturing your dog to death or shooting it?

What policies that Biden backs do you disagree with? I suspect that Biden and you have the same goal, just different approaches to getting it done. You want everything tomorrow (so do I, but ain't gonna happen) while moderates are happy to just make real progress in that direction. Of course we'll need to take the Senate and probably to end the filibuster in order to realize that real progress.

Biden and Sanders point to the same goal in most important policy issues. Health care. Environment. Strengthening the middle class. Trump points in the opposite direction. 180 degrees out. How can you possibly argue that there's no difference between Biden and Trump?

 

[Winston]

"Democrats, you do NOT want to nominate Joe Biden"

That Trump’s current (sustained, really) disapproval ratings among Dems/Independents collectively beat Trump’s support among his base that you are so concerned about.

Trump has always been hated. This is nothing new. Running against distaste for Trump is a fool's errand. As evidenced by Clinton's "Trump's bad" campaign failing to produce a win. In the end the midterms were won on healthcare, not Trump-hate. (Where Bernie is better than Biden) Trump hate is only going to get you hardcore partisan Democrats and political junkies that know how bad he is. The rest do not care about Trump impeachment, or Mueller report, or anything else the Dems hung their hats on.

Not so much stating facts as pointing you in the right direction from your wrong belief that somehow the under 45 crowd is a bigger and more reliable voting block. I won’t go into race and geographic differences. Might be too confusing for you.

I do not believe that. They say they want change and then 1/3 of them actually vote for it. Here's what I actually think. I think that demographic will lose you an election, more than win you one. The Boomers and above will win you an election but, they can't do it without the 45 and under and the Independents. And the Boomers just pissed in their cheerios. Bernie won 85% of people 18-29 in Michigan. And Biden won 15%. And I got news for ya, the people under 45 can barely distinguish between a Biden presidency and a Trump presidency. The only saving grace you have is making a case to them on losing the judiciary. But, that is just not a motivating factor for most of those people stuck in dead end jobs with no future.

I pointed the error in your thinking that Trump, as an incumbent, has a record that he cannot lie his way out of during a debate. It won’t be the cake walk you mistakenly assume.

Biden isn’t my first choice either. He isn’t even my 2nd or 3rd, but I look at all the available information and it tells me, that barring the revelation of some dark secret from Biden’s past coming into the public, the Dems still have a good chance of taking back the White House.

Biden won't be making an effective case against Trump. Please point to a time when the Democrats have not failed utterly at taking down Trump. They have failed at the Mueller report, emoluments, tax returns, and Ukraine. And they'll keep failing some more until they exorcise the corporate control of their party and appeal to working people's needs.

 

[Craig234]

What policies that Biden backs do you disagree with? I suspect that Biden and you have the same goal, just different approaches to getting it done.

If only. It's not easy to discuss, if you believe the "retail politics" of what Joe SAYS, instead of his real politics. Look at the bankruptcy bill for a good example of the difference.

You want everything tomorrow

Where do you get the feeling you can say that? Do I need to take part in this exchange, or just let you go making up whatever you want? Sometimes exchanges are like pulling a string on a doll, you have a speech ready to go.

(so do I, but ain't gonna happen) while moderates are happy to just make real progress in that direction.

No, moderates are happy to go the WRONG direction while SAYING they're for incremental progress, and OPPOSING any ACTUAL progress, from, you know, progressives, as they've done while the US worsens plutocracy and inequality for 40 years.

Of course we'll need to take the Senate and probably to end the filibuster in order to realize that real progress.

The political obstacles are enormous for the people to regain democracy. Wealth is entrenched systemically.

Biden and Sanders point to the same goal in most important policy issues. Health care. Environment. Strengthening the middle class. Trump points in the opposite direction. 180 degrees out. How can you possibly argue that there's no difference between Biden and Trump?

Craig234 over and over: we should remember that trump is far worse than Biden
jpn: You said Biden and trump are the same. Like I said: pull the string, get your stock speech, who cares about the truth.

 

[jpn]

i think there's a good chance that Bernie's supporters go home and don't vote. which is why Republicans/Trump/Rush/Sean MUST keep them pissed off and at Biden's throat (even while democratic VOTERS, not establishment, VOTERS VOTE for someone other than Bernie).
and the weird part is Bernie's voters have the most to lose (since they're mostly younger). Trump judges and Trump legislation and the trashed environment and selling off the commons and a Republican Supreme Court for most of their lives.
it honestly makes zero sense. heck, it's almost like when we make fun of Republican voters for voting against their best interests.

True. That's often the unfortunate flip side of passion. The energy is generates is great, but there's often a lack of perspective. Perspective comes with age.

Sanders campaign’s strategy was to win the party’s nomination as Donald Trump won the G.O.P. nomination in 2016 — as a plurality candidate in a divided field who gradually brings the reluctant majority along when no other candidate can consolidate a larger coalition. And it could have worked, if Biden hadn't clobbered Sanders in South Carolina. Once it became clear that there was indeed a solid, moderate, majority candidate available, the landslide to Biden began.

In fact, the turnout Sanders was counting on is being captured by Biden instead. Up 40% from 2016 in Michigan yesterday. Biden is way more popular than Hillary.

Biden will be very tough for Trump to beat, which is why Trump spent the last year risking impeachment and removal in order to smear Biden with fake allegations of corruption.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: "Democrats, you do NOT want to nominate Joe Biden"

But, you said Clinton's fatal mistake was being out-campaigned by Trump. I see no chance Biden will out-campaign Trump.

Trumps always been confronted on his lies. He just doubles down and it works.


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Biden is already bringing out the anti-Trump vote in record numbers even in States he never even visited. That is what will win in Nov. The key is not to frighten voters away with wild eyed schemes. They already found that Trumps promises to the middle class were lies and they do not want more of the same. They just want a return to normalcy and a President they can again respect. We are all suffering from Trump fatigue and want a day to go by where we don't feel disgusted by the moron in the Whitehouse.

 

[Moot]

So you don’t like low unemployment and rising wages. Go ahead and run on that.


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It's getting to be a pattern...a republican gets elected and tanks the economy...then a democrat gets elected and has to fix it...wash rinse repeat

 

[Moot]

Clinton already tried the "Trump's bad." Campaign message. It failed to produce a desirable result.


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That was before we had four years of Trump. Now there is no doubt...he's unfit to be president and needs to go.

 

[jpn]

If only. It's not easy to discuss, if you believe the "retail politics" of what Joe SAYS, instead of his real politics. Look at the bankruptcy bill for a good example of the difference.

What policies are you for? Exactly? If it's not easy to answer such a straightforward question, perhaps you may want to focus a bit.

You want everything tomorrow

Where do you get the feeling you can say that? Do I need to take part in this exchange, or just let you go making up whatever you want? Sometimes exchanges are like pulling a string on a doll, you have a speech ready to go.

True. Sorry. But as I mentioned above, when you won't say what you want, I'm left to assume. So help me out. What are you for? And just as importantly, how do you achieve it?

(so do I, but ain't gonna happen) while moderates are happy to just make real progress in that direction.

No, moderates are happy to go the WRONG direction while SAYING they're for incremental progress, and OPPOSING any ACTUAL progress, from, you know, progressives, as they've done while the US worsens plutocracy and inequality for 40 years.

How is expanding health insurance to over 20 million people going in the WRONG direction?

Of course we'll need to take the Senate and probably to end the filibuster in order to realize that real progress.

The political obstacles are enormous for the people to regain democracy. Wealth is entrenched systemically.

Agreed.

Biden and Sanders point to the same goal in most important policy issues. Health care. Environment. Strengthening the middle class. Trump points in the opposite direction. 180 degrees out. How can you possibly argue that there's no difference between Biden and Trump?

Like I said: pull the string, get your stock speech, who cares about the truth.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Biden doesn't want to expand health care? Really?

 

[smallvoice]

It's getting to be a pattern...a republican gets elected and tanks the economy...then a democrat gets elected and has to fix it...wash rinse repeat

Your laundry must be dingy. The Republican has got the economy humming, low unemployment, higher pay, new businesses opening. Are you sure about what you say?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Trump has always been hated. This is nothing new. Running against distaste for Trump is a fool's errand. As evidenced by Clinton's "Trump's bad" campaign failing to produce a win. In the end the midterms were won on healthcare, not Trump-hate. (Where Bernie is better than Biden) Trump hate is only going to get you hardcore partisan Democrats and political junkies that know how bad he is. The rest do not care about Trump impeachment, or Mueller report, or anything else the Dems hung their hats on

I haven’t argued that the Dems can beat Trump based solely on their hate of him. During this ^^ part of our conversation I was simply countering your argument of Trump’s chances based on his Republican support of “something like 95%”, by pointing his Democratic approval rating of 7%, and Independents at 42% which combined, easily overtake Trump’s high intra-party support.

I do not believe that. They say they want change and then 1/3 of them actually vote for it. Here's what I actually think. I think that demographic will lose you an election, more than win you one. The Boomers and above will win you an election but, they can't do it without the 45 and under and the Independents. And the Boomers just pissed in their cheerios. Bernie won 85% of people 18-29 in Michigan. And Biden won 15%. And I got news for ya, the people under 45 can barely distinguish between a Biden presidency and a Trump presidency. The only saving grace you have is making a case to them on losing the judiciary. But, that is just not a motivating factor for most of those people stuck in dead end jobs with no future.

You’re certainly within your rights to believe what you want, but your beliefs don’t change facts, like the fact that the two most reliable voting blocks are “Boomers” and African American (specifically, women). BFD that Bernie won the 18-29 demo in MI, he lost the state by 16%. And what do you say about Bernie’s disgrace in MS where he was utterly obliterated by Biden’s 81% blowout? Face it, most Americans don’t agree with Bernie’s socialist agenda. He’s all but done.

Biden won't be making an effective case against Trump. Please point to a time when the Democrats have not failed utterly at taking down Trump. They have failed at the Mueller report, emoluments, tax returns, and Ukraine. And they'll keep failing some more until they exorcise the corporate control of their party and appeal to working people's needs.

Are you being deliberately disingenuous now, or ignorant? Democrats haven’t succeeded in holding Trump accountable because he’s got the entire government under his thumb. If half the witnesses the Dems called for during Trump’s impeachment had been allowed to speak, Pence would likely be sitting in the Oval today.

 

[vegas giants]

Your laundry must be dingy. The Republican has got the economy humming, low unemployment, higher pay, new businesses opening. Are you sure about what you say?

Markets are crashing and the trump recession has begun

 

[veritas1]

Biden comes across like some demented, angry guy in a nursing home who's upset because he got raisins on his cream of wheat.:lol:

 

[vegas giants]

Biden comes across like some demented, angry guy in a nursing home who's upset because he got raisins on his cream of wheat.:lol:

You misspelled trump

 

[Winston]

I haven’t argued that the Dems can beat Trump based solely on their hate of him. During this ^^ part of our conversation I was simply countering your argument of Trump’s chances based on his Republican support of “something like 95%”, by pointing his Democratic approval rating of 7%, and Independents at 42% which combined, easily overtake Trump’s high intra-party support.

But, the point is even if both bases turn out the Republicans are 100% unified behind a candidate they love. The left hates Biden with every fiber of their being. Not looking good.

You’re certainly within your rights to believe what you want, but your beliefs don’t change facts, like the fact that the two most reliable voting blocks are “Boomers” and African American (specifically, women). BFD that Bernie won the 18-29 demo in MI, he lost the state by 16%. And what do you say about Bernie’s disgrace in MS where he was utterly obliterated by Biden’s 81% blowout? Face it, most Americans don’t agree with Bernie’s socialist agenda. He’s all but done.

Older voters were misinformed by election strategy. It took all the candidates dropping and endorsing him for him to even have a chance. If Bernie had countered the string of endorsements with a Warren endorsement, Tulsi, etc you could see a different race today. It's basically flimsy support based on being told who to vote for by elected officials and the media. Before then Biden was placing 4th and 5th.

Are you being deliberately disingenuous now, or ignorant? Democrats haven’t succeeded in holding Trump accountable because he’s got the entire government under his thumb. If half the witnesses the Dems called for during Trump’s impeachment had been allowed to speak, Pence would likely be sitting in the Oval today.

No it's a fact the Dems suck ass at politics. Their attempts to take down Trump are pathetic moralizing and grand standing that the American people don't care about. Biden will be no different. Return to normalcy like all the good times when we sold out the industrial Midwest and fought an illegal war.


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[weaver2]

Check out the videos.

Progressives Sound Alarm to Democrats: Biden Is Not the 'Safe' Candidate Against Trump | Common Dreams News

Biden is actually a preceptive politician; proposed policies, predictions or warnings that have proven correct;

opposed drilling in ANWR
advised ban on smoking in public
predicted long civil war in Iraq if Bush's policy is continued. Advised political solution:divide into states and establish a federal government.
No Child Left Behind a disaster advised repeal
Don't Ask, Don't Tell bad policy should be repealed
need to raise cap on SS
take action on global warming
act on health insurance: expanded coverage for children and adults; encourage wellness and modernization of treatment
illegal immigration: deport criminals devise pathway to citizenship for others; deportation of 14,000,000 people is unrealistic""Folks, being commander in chief requires you to occasionally be practical."

Biden's progressive and unlike Trump's assessment he is not asleep. He was head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for 15+ years. He understands foreign policy and relations. If nothing else he will stop the selling out to anti-American countries and resume intelligent dialogues with allies.

 

[Winston]

That was before we had four years of Trump. Now there is no doubt...he's unfit to be president and needs to go.

Not going to change anything Bidens a sure loser cause the Dems suck ass at politics and love getting beat by game show hosts


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[veritas1]

That was before we had four years of Trump. Now there is no doubt...he's unfit to be president and needs to go.

Yea, I hate the lowest unemployment ever recorded, better trade deals, getting out of senseless foreign wars and securing our border. Terrible!!!:lamo

 

[vegas giants]

Yea, I hate the lowest unemployment ever recorded, better trade deals, getting out of senseless foreign wars and securing our border. Terrible!!!:lamo

Making a lot in the market...are you? Lol

 

[veritas1]

You misspelled trump

Trump wasn't out in a crowd throwing spittle in a voter's face while insulting him. That was the guy you favor to run the free world.

 

[veritas1]

Making a lot in the market...are you? Lol

Markets go up and down. Or maybe you've failed to notice the last couple centuries. This is no different.

 

[vegas giants]

Markets go up and down. Or maybe you've failed to notice the last couple centuries. This is no different.

Tell trump. He is panicking. The great trump recession has begun

 

[vegas giants]

Trump wasn't out in a crowd throwing spittle in a voter's face while insulting him. That was the guy you favor to run the free world.

Trump does that at every rally

 

[veritas1]

Biden is actually a preceptive politician; proposed policies, predictions or warnings that have proven correct;

opposed drilling in ANWR
advised ban on smoking in public
predicted long civil war in Iraq if Bush's policy is continued. Advised political solution:divide into states and establish a federal government.
No Child Left Behind a disaster advised repeal
Don't Ask, Don't Tell bad policy should be repealed
need to raise cap on SS
take action on global warming
act on health insurance: expanded coverage for children and adults; encourage wellness and modernization of treatment
illegal immigration: deport criminals devise pathway to citizenship for others; deportation of 14,000,000 people is unrealistic""Folks, being commander in chief requires you to occasionally be practical."

Biden's progressive and unlike Trump's assessment he is not asleep. He was head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for 15+ years. He understands foreign policy and relations. If nothing else he will stop the selling out to anti-American countries and resume intelligent dialogues with allies.

Biden is daily progressing into senility before our eyes. He also voted for the Iraq war. What he understand about foreign policy are where the juiciest deals are for his family members.

 

[Moot]

Your laundry must be dingy. The Republican has got the economy humming, low unemployment, higher pay, new businesses opening. Are you sure about what you say?

No, it goes like this...

Clinton left Bush with a good economy in 2000

Bush left Obama with a bad economy in 2008

Obama left Trump with a good economy in 2016

Trump will leave Biden with a bad economy in 2020...​

A good economy doesn't need interest rate cuts...and yet, Trump forced the Federal Reserve to lower interest rate three times since he took office... leaving the Feds with no tools in their box to fix the economy during a recession. Now that the economy is tanking...the best the Feds can do now is print more money which will cause inflation.

Wages are still stagnant and millions are still working two jobs to make ends meet. Trump has done nothing for the middle class except divide it.

The national debt has skyrocketed under Trump and now he wants to cut Medicare, Medicaid and SS to pay it down. So let him run on that and see what happens.

 

[vegas giants]

Biden is daily progressing into senility before our eyes. He also voted for the Iraq war. What he understand about foreign policy are where the juiciest deals are for his family members.

Trump said he had not left the White House in months....but was in texas 2 days earlier.


Trump is mentally incapacitated