Democrats scramble to reverse course on COVID restrictions ahead of midterms

[Metric Mouse]

Democrats are following the science. Omicron has approximately the mortality profile of influenza. We don’t have mask mandates for influenza. Therefore we don’t need them for omicron. Delta was different. Much more lethal. Mask mandates were necessary then. The vaccinated are safe from omicron. The covidiots no normal people care about any more.
Hence the relaxing of mask mandates.
Hope that clears it up.

Omicron has killed more people than Delta. This isn't the flu.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

You can if you want try to find me supporting government mandates, at least in the last 18 months or so. You'll fail, but maybe you'll have fun trying.

And the point I was making is CDC wasn't and hasn't ever, that I know of, supported "mandates." They make recommendations, such as to wear masks indoors, and have left it up to state and local governments whether or not to "mandate" those policies across the state or city. So, there's a really key difference between a mandate and a recommendation. Those two terms were stupidly or dishonestly conflated throughout this thread and I was just pointing that out. The CDC hasn't dropped it's recommendations, and I highly doubt those states removing 'mandates' have either.

My local health department "recommends" masks indoors, as we speak. There is no city-wide mandate in place, and hasen't been for many months, but local businesses can and do require their customers to wear masks. The local live theaters, for example, all require masks worn at all times. UT basketball games are about 98% mask-free zones. I'm fine with all of those approaches, and we go to live theater and happily wear our masks, and to basketball games, and only wear masks in the crowded concourse, to and from our seats.

Until now democrat governors have always pointed to the CDC recommendations to justify their mandates. Suddenly they are ignoring the CDC recommendations and dropping mandates. Ask yourself why.

 

[jmotivator]

Ah, the "false sense of security" card.

... the what?

Like Sturgis?

Antimask rallys?

Trump rallys?

This isn't the argumnet you think it is.... the media spend most of 2020 telling people that large gatherings and protests don't spread the virus. I mean, they can't even determine if Sturgis spread COVID.

NO, I'm talking about the real environments where COVID spreads, in confinded spaces with limited, recycled air where someone might spend too much time becuase they felt masks would protect them... work, the grocery store, etc. Those interactions happen WAY more ofther than a rally.

Yet mask wearing is still tied to reduced infection....

Hmmmm

Well no, by Tacomancer's own provided evidence a lot of people would end up spreading Omicron thinking their cloth mask would help when it wasn't.

 

[Fledermaus]

... the what?



This isn't the argumnet you think it is.... the media spend most of 2020 telling people that large gatherings and protests don't spread the virus. I mean, they can't even determine if Sturgis spread COVID.

NO, I'm talking about the real environments where COVID spreads, in confinded spaces with limited, recycled air where someone might spend too much time becuase they felt masks would protect them... work, the grocery store, etc. Those interactions happen WAY more ofther than a rally.

Well no, by Tacomancer's own provided evidence a lot of people would end up spreading Omicron thinking their cloth mask would help when it wasn't.

Antimaskers have used the "false sense of security" argument when they have nothing else intelligent to say about masks.

As to Sturgis you have to be kidding.

Redirect Notice

 

[Ethel2]

Omicron has killed more people than Delta. This isn't the flu.

If you think Omicron has killed more people than delta then please provide sequencing data on all deaths since delta and omicron first appeared. Omicron is absolutely a milder form of the disease. It tends to remain in the upper airways. If you are vaccinated and boosted you run very little risk of serious illness, and if you aren't then you have only yourself to blame. I read that omicron has a similar mortality rate as influenza has but because of the sheer number of people getting infected there are a fair number of deaths, though those numbers are falling. To me its a little silly to treat omicron as if it was delta.

 

[Ethel2]

So the CDC and their recommendation to continue mandates is suddenly not science to you but democrat governors are now scientists. LMAO

So now you believe anything the CDC has to say? Pretty hypocritical, isn't it?
The CDC is taking a more cautious approach, but they are not the only source of data and science around. If cases and hospitalizations are falling there comes a time to balance the risk of infection with learning to live with covid. That is what is happening now in several states. It may change again if a more virulent variant appears.

 

[Ethel2]

Until now democrat governors have always pointed to the CDC recommendations to justify their mandates. Suddenly they are ignoring the CDC recommendations and dropping mandates. Ask yourself why.

I will tell you why in graph form, using California as an example:

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.

covid19.healthdata.org

 

[MAGAnificent]

That's yesterdays narrative and by yesterday I mean yesterday. A political decision was made virtually overnight to declare victory over covid and drop mandates.

The truth is that democrats in DC do not want the pandemic to go away. They have reaped political benefits from it and want that to continue as long as possible. They especially want the panic porn to carry into the November elections.

 

[JasperL]

Hospital Capacity

www.tn.gov

"Last week" in "17 hospitals." I was referring to the 17 hospitals in the Knoxville area. There are more than 17 hospitals in Tennessee.

I posted links and screenshots at that time. Here's the current status. We have 8 available as of last count. The good news for most of us is about 80% of those hospitalized are unvaccinated morons.

 

[Metric Mouse]

So now you believe anything the CDC has to say? Pretty hypocritical, isn't it?
The CDC is taking a more cautious approach, but they are not the only source of data and science around. If cases and hospitalizations are falling there comes a time to balance the risk of infection with learning to live with covid. That is what is happening now in several states. It may change again if a more virulent variant appears.

Yes, states have argued against mask mandates for two years.

And then 945,000 people died.

And now people are still arguing "it is only people allergic to the vaccine, or whose immune system doesn't respond to it that will die, so why should I have to wear a strip of cloth across my face. It's the flu, you guys!!!" Typical antimasker death cult bullshit.

Delta strain killed approximately 100,000 Americans from the time it became dominant to the time Omicron became dominant.

Omicron has killed approximately 130,000 Americans in the same time. This isn't a ****ing joke you guys. The flu only kills like 30,000 people a year. Get real and grow up.

 

[JasperL]

It's the assumption that it was 100% effective that makes it dangerous. People took risks that they might not have because they were told they just needed the mask... which really wasn't very effective.

No one ever claimed masks were 100% effective. That's in part why some businesses require VACCINES for their employees when if masks worked 100% of the time, no need. It's why no competently run nursing home ever only recommended masks for their employees or visitors to protect residents - masks were part of a multi-prong strategy, including vaccines. So your assumption of 100% effective is a really stupid straw man. The only ones who have ever trotted out that "assumption" are anti-mask right wingers making bad faith arguments like yours.

 

[JasperL]

The truth is that democrats in DC do not want the pandemic to go away. They have reaped political benefits from it and want that to continue as long as possible. They especially want the panic porn to carry into the November elections.

It does not matter what people "want" anywhere. COVID has not gone away. Frankly one big reason it has not gone away are the hordes of unvaccinated, many of them MAGAs, overwhelming the healthcare system for the second time in just a few months.

 

[Slartibartfast]

So you can't answer the question? Weird.

N95 being more effective than cloth masks at stopping viral dispersion is knowledge that has been around since someone decided that we needed better masks and developed the N95 filter. Tight fitting masks being better than loose fitting masks is also self explanatory. It's not that cloth masks became less effective with Omicron, cloth masks were never all that effective.

There is no new information. If anything, the CDC's new focus on N95 is a tacit admission that their push of cloth masks were mostly disinformation that gave too many people a false sense of security in public... which likely contributed to the spread of COVID in all of its variants.

As I already mentioned. I can answer the question but I will not accept you changing the scope of the discussion on me without my agreement.

The simple fact is that omicron reacts differently with cloth masks.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Just wear a mask dude. Save lives.

Under the right circumstances I do.

 

[JasperL]

Until now democrat governors have always pointed to the CDC recommendations to justify their mandates. Suddenly they are ignoring the CDC recommendations and dropping mandates. Ask yourself why.

I've answered your question and you are clearly not interested in having anything like a rational discussion. The short answer is when infections drop by e.g. 90% then maybe the public policy changes as a result of that drop, based on "science." This is simple enough I know you understand it, but you're committed to flogging this talking point fed to you by the right wing, so why bother pretending? It would be simpler if you just cut and pasted the same talking point 100 times in this thread. Same level of engagement, same effect.

 

[MAGAnificent]

It does not matter what people "want" anywhere. COVID has not gone away. Frankly one big reason it has not gone away are the hordes of unvaccinated, many of them MAGAs, overwhelming the healthcare system for the second time in just a few months.

The so-called herds of unvaccinated is a left wing myth. Over 80% of adults in the US are vaccinated. That number will rise significantly as children are vaccinated. Vaccinating children was only fairly recently approved. We will never get to 100% vaccination for Covid, just as we never reached 100% on Flu vaccinations, Smallpox, Typhoid, etc. Relax about the unvaccinates. Covid is now pretty much at the endemic stage. We will have to live with it at some level just as we do the flu. That is unless you want to deploy a gestapo force to go door to door and force those unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Under the right circumstances I do.

The CDC says 99.9% of the United States is under those circumstances. Leave your house, wear a mask. Don't let thousands more die for your freedumb. Listen to the science, not your favorite politician or tv talking head.

 

[Metric Mouse]

So you can't answer the question? Weird.

N95 being more effective than cloth masks at stopping viral dispersion is knowledge that has been around since someone decided that we needed better masks and developed the N95 filter. Tight fitting masks being better than loose fitting masks is also self explanatory. It's not that cloth masks became less effective with Omicron, cloth masks were never all that effective.

There is no new information. If anything, the CDC's new focus on N95 is a tacit admission that their push of cloth masks were mostly disinformation that gave too many people a false sense of security in public... which likely contributed to the spread of COVID in all of its variants.

Some people are still arguing "if a mask isn't 100% protection, no one should wear a mask ever!"

 

[Slartibartfast]

The CDC says 99.9% of the United States is under those circumstances. Leave your house, wear a mask. Don't let thousands more die for your freedumb. Listen to the science, not your favorite politician or tv talking head.

You are starting to get repetitive.

 

[JasperL]

The so-called herds of unvaccinated is a left wing myth. Over 80% of adults in the US are vaccinated.

Yeah, and the point is our healthcare system is being overwhelmed by the morons who are NOT vaccinated. If not for that holdout of MAGAs in my area, maybe the hospitals get a little break, nurses and doctors quit having to work 50 or 60 hour weeks. I guess they just want to bleed the system dry and make a lot of people a lot of money treating their dumb asses.

That number will rise significantly as children are vaccinated. Vaccinating children was only fairly recently approved. We will never get to 100% vaccination for Covid, just as we never reached 100% on Flu vaccinations, Smallpox, Typhoid, etc. Relax about the unvaccinates. Covid is now pretty much at the endemic stage. We will have to live with it at some level just as we do the flu. That is unless you want to deploy a gestapo force to go door to door and force those unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

Yeah, we'll just have to live with it. Not before COVID kills a few 10s of thousands more of the unvaccinated, and hospitalizes perhaps 100k more, but that was the MAGA plan and it worked. Good job!!

 

[Metric Mouse]

You are starting to get repetitive.

People are sick of antimaskers killing thousands of Americans each day. Forigve us if we don't just give up let you guys keep this pandemic going...

 

[screenwriter]

"Last week" in "17 hospitals." I was referring to the 17 hospitals in the Knoxville area. There are more than 17 hospitals in Tennessee.

I posted links and screenshots at that time. Here's the current status. We have 8 available as of last count. The good news for most of us is about 80% of those hospitalized are unvaccinated morons.

View attachment 67374238

Then this was nothing more to you than a circle jerk celebrating that 80%. Got it.

 

[Slartibartfast]

People are sick of antimaskers killing thousands of Americans each day. Forigve us if we don't just give up let you guys keep this pandemic going...

Circumstances change. Masks aren’t as effective as before and infection rates are declining sharply.

Two weeks ago, pro mask was the right stance.

 

[Ethel2]

Yes, states have argued against mask mandates for two years.

And then 945,000 people died.

And now people are still arguing "it is only people allergic to the vaccine, or whose immune system doesn't respond to it that will die, so why should I have to wear a strip of cloth across my face. It's the flu, you guys!!!" Typical antimasker death cult bullshit.

Delta strain killed approximately 100,000 Americans from the time it became dominant to the time Omicron became dominant.

Omicron has killed approximately 130,000 Americans in the same time. This isn't a ****ing joke you guys. The flu only kills like 30,000 people a year. Get real and grow up.

Where did you get the statistics about delta and omicron?
We don’t sequence enough to determine which variant is responsible for deaths to know.
Hey-I am a strong proponent of masks when indicated. I believe omicron has a similar mortality rate to influenza however and we don’t have mask mandates for that.
Just not sure it’s worth it for this variant.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Yeah, and the point is our healthcare system is being overwhelmed by the morons who are NOT vaccinated. If not for that holdout of MAGAs in my area, maybe the hospitals get a little break, nurses and doctors quit having to work 50 or 60 hour weeks. I guess they just want to bleed the system dry and make a lot of people a lot of money treating their dumb asses.

that was true with the previous variants. Not so much with the omicron variant for which the vaccines are not all that effective. The four most recent cases of Covid at my office were fully vaccinated And we are past the peak of omicron.

Yeah, we'll just have to live with it. Not before COVID kills a few 10s of thousands more of the unvaccinated, and hospitalizes perhaps 100k more, but that was the MAGA plan and it worked. Good job!!

Tens of thousands die every year from the flu. It ranges from about 12,000 to 50,000 dependent on different variants. And you are making up the MAGA plan as you go along. According to the governors of the states with low vaccination rates, it's primarily a socio-economic issue. It's the folks in the inner cities and poor rural areas that are vaccine hesitant. I don't think the MAGA label applies to them.