Democrats push to eliminate the debt ceiling, allow unlimited government borrowing

[Conservative]

The op is about debt and deficit.
To understand that..you have to understand where that debt and deficit come from..gdp growth ..revenue..spending.all factor into it.
Frankly..I am not " focused".on any particular thing since it all needs to be understood.
You are the one that focused on certain things and ignores others.
But we are working through that

Now we are working on your focusing on " only dollars matter"..

And your assumption that all growth must be the result of government.

So..stop diverting about " local revenues..jobs etc.." which is about as far from the op as you can get..
And let's deal with your misconceptions shall we. ?.

It's just some easy questions con...why can't you answer if you supposedly understand this stuff?

Again..
Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

No that isn't what the OP is about. The OP is about eliminating the debt ceiling

 

[jaeger19]

No that isn't what the OP is about. The OP is about eliminating the debt ceiling

And that discussion the debt ceiling requires knowledge of the debt..the deficit..revenues ..economic growth etc.. etc... things you have trouble with.
It does not require discussions about " local revenues..." etc..those are your red herrings.

So again..
Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

 

[Conservative]

And that discussion the debt ceiling requires knowledge of the debt..the deficit..revenues ..economic growth etc.. etc... things you have trouble with.
It does not require discussions about " local revenues..." etc..those are your red herrings.

It only requires understanding that only the amount spent in the fiscal year goes against the debt ceiling and generates the deficit. It also has to do with the line items in the budget as well as the revenue generated by the economy which comes from dollar growth not percentage change. Interesting that Total Revenue from FIT, CIT, Excise Taxes, and other revenue sources generated more revenue AFTER the tax cuts. Has a lot to do with 7 million new taxpayers created. how did that happen?

So again..
Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

Obama's revenues are irrelevant to this OP

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

The reality remains, we are a consumer driven economy where 2/3 of our GDP is consumption/consumer spending. Gov't spending was never the major sourse of GDP dollar growth. What matters continues to be the deficit and even with that so called Obama growth he added 9.3 trillion to the debt. A total of 6 million new taxpayers were created from April 2008 to January 2017, hardly a booming economy.

 

[jgarden47]

just read that

liberals will swear this is a great idea - that 33 trillion in debt isn't enough, we need 50 trillion in debt

Where was "stealthycat's" self-righteous indignation when President Donald Trump increased the national debt by $7.8 billion in just 4 years - adding another $23,500 for every man, woman and child!

Trump ranks 3rd in terms of those Presidents responsible for increasing the nation debt the most while in the White House - the 2 presidents who ranked above him were George W Bush and Abraham Lincoln!

Those 2 presidents would accumulate their debt over more than one 4 year term each was also confronted with adding the costs of ongoing wars to their budgets!

 

[jaeger19]

It has to do with the line items in the budget as well as the revenue generated by the economy which comes from dollar growth not percentage change. Interesting that Total Revenue from FIT, CIT, Excise Taxes, and other revenue sources generated more revenue AFTER the tax cuts. Has a lot to do with 7 million new taxpayers created. how did that happen?

Obama's revenues are irrelevant to this OP

The reality remains, we are a consumer driven economy where 2/3 of our GDP is consumption/consumer spending. Gov't spending was never the major sourse of GDP dollar growth. What matters continues to be the deficit and even with that so called Obama growth he added 9.3 trillion to the debt. A total of 6 million new taxpayers were created from April 2008 to January 2017, hardly a booming economy.

Yeah. Stop diverting...
We can get to those questions but first you have to understand things like growth and why it's not " just the money matters".

So again..

Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

Why aren't you able to answer these simply questions if you supposedly understand ????

 

[Conservative]

Yeah. Stop diverting...
We can get to those questions but first you have to understand things like growth and why it's not " just the money matters".

So again..

Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

Why aren't you able to answer these simply questions if you supposedly understand ????

I have answered the question, there is no justification for eliminating the debt ceiling and you still cannot explain why FIT revenue grew after the tax cuts

 

[Conservative]

Where was "stealthycat's" self-righteous indignation when President Donald Trump increased the national debt by $7.8 billion in just 4 years - adding another $23,500 for every man, woman and child!

Trump ranks 3rd in terms of those Presidents responsible for increasing the nation debt the most while in the White House - the 2 presidents who ranked above him were George W Bush and Abraham Lincoln!

Those 2 presidents would accumulate their debt over more than one 4 year term each was also confronted with adding the costs of ongoing wars to their budgets!

Where is there any evidence of your understanding of what caused that deficit? I know this reality escapes you but 26 million Americans were laid off to stop the spread of the virus. Do you get paid by the left to post this kind of partisan BS? I find it quite disturbing the lies and distortions from the left always placing blame never accepting any responsibility. The 3 trillion 2020 deficit was ALL COVID EXPENSES. Why is it you and the rest of the left ignore what Trump actually proposed in 2019 for 2020 prior to the pandemic

Trump Budget Cuts Size of Federal Government, but Bolder Reforms Needed

President Donald Trump’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2021 would reduce the size and reach of the federal bureaucracy significantly by shifting government responsibilities back to constitutional priorities and empowering state and local governments. These reforms, contained in the request...

www.heritage.org

 

[jaeger19]

I have answered the question, there is no justification for eliminating the debt ceiling and you still cannot explain why FIT revenue grew after the tax cuts

Nope you didn't.
As far as fit revenue ? It grew because like the year before WITHOUT A tax cut.. the economy grew.
The real question is why you assume that all the growth came from the government??
Especially when the economy grew the year before pretty much the same..without a tax cut..
And in 2019..the economy actually grew LESS.. despite the tax cut.

So. Again answer the questions since you clearly aren't there yet.

Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

 

[Conservative]

Nope you didn't.
As far as fit revenue ? It grew because like the year before WITHOUT A tax cut.. the economy grew.
The real question is why you assume that all the growth came from the government??
Especially when the economy grew the year before pretty much the same..without a tax cut..
And in 2019..the economy actually grew LESS.. despite the tax cut.

So. Again answer the questions since you clearly aren't there yet.

Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

This OP is about eliminating the debt ceiling and I agree with you a growing economy doesn't require a debt ceiling increase, boosts state and local tax revenues thus could support and should support lower gov't spending

 

[jaeger19]

This OP is about eliminating the debt ceiling and I agree with you a growing economy doesn't require a debt ceiling increase, boosts state and local tax revenues thus could support and should support lower gov't spending

Unfortunately.. you don't really understand yet..so you can't speak to the debt ceiling.
I mean...you laud Trump all the time about the booming economy that he created right...
But.... he suspended the debt ceiling twice and raised it once...

So please explain..if as you say a growing economy doesn't require a debt ceding increase..
Then please explain why Trump suspended the debt ceiling twice and increased it as well...

Let's hear it

 

[Conservative]

Unfortunately.. you don't really understand yet..so you can't speak to the debt ceiling.
I mean...you laud Trump all the time about the booming economy that he created right...
But.... he suspended the debt ceiling twice and raised it once...

So please explain..if as you say a growing economy doesn't require a debt ceding increase..
Then please explain why Trump suspended the debt ceiling twice and increased it as well...

Let's hear it

Why does it matter what Trump did, different time and different circumstances. You tell me why we need a 6.8 trillion dollar budget? Why would a growing economy need more federal gov't spending? DO you know what your state and local government responsibilities are? In 2017 Trump was operating on the Obama budget, Have no idea why in 2019 as I don't recall, 2020 was the pandemic and massive gov't stimulus. What makes you think I supported the 2019 raise?

 

[jaeger19]

Why does it matter what Trump did, different time and different circumstances. You tell me why we need a 6.8 trillion dollar budget? Why would a growing economy need more federal gov't spending? DO you know what your state and local government responsibilities are? In 2017 Trump was operating on the Obama budget, Have no idea why in 2019 as I don't recall, 2020 was the pandemic and massive gov't stimulus. What makes you think I supported the 2019 raise?

Because you.
1. Continue to laud the growth under under Trump. Laud the " state and local government revenue..
THEN.. in the next breath you said that when there is economic growth and increased state and local revenue that " there is no need to raise the debt limit.

Yet trump..suspended the debt limit twice and raised it.
I want to know your explanation of why he did it. Why was it necessary? Or did Trump just want spending to " get out of control and want governmentvto be able to incur more debt". ?

Was Trump really just a liberal. ?.
And if so why did you support a liberal?
I mean I never ever heard a peep from you about Trump raising the debt limit.

 

[Conservative]

Because you.
1. Continue to laud the growth under under Trump. Laud the " state and local government revenue..
THEN.. in the next breath you said that when there is economic growth and increased state and local revenue that " there is no need to raise the debt limit.

Yes sure did and the numbers prove it, your total ignorance of the budget is quite stunning and on display. For some reason you are trolling and baiting never answering the direct question, do you support eliminating the debt ceiling

Yet trump..suspended the debt limit twice and raised it.
I want to know your explanation of why he did it. Why was it necessary? Or did Trump just want spending to " get out of control and want governmentvto be able to incur more debt". ?

No idea nor do I care, you still haven't answered, did I support those debt ceiling raises and if so prove it?

Was Trump really just a liberal. ?.
And if so why did you support a liberal?
I mean I never ever heard a peep from you about Trump raising the debt limit.

Economic growth does not warrant debt ceiling increases as there is more than enough money coming in now to fund the items that FIT was created to fund and economic dollar growth generates more revenue. The problem remains entitlement spending and gov't borrowing of those funds never paying them back, only the interest. Every year now more money goes out than comes i and that creates the security sale to cover the shortfall. There is a solution to this problem and it isn't an FIT increase. Still you haven't answered what benefits came from the tax cuts?

 

[jaeger19]

Yes sure did and the numbers prove it, your total ignorance of the budget is quite stunning and on display. For some reason you are trolling and baiting never answering the direct question, do you support eliminating the debt ceiling

No idea nor do I care, you still haven't answered, did I support those debt ceiling raises and if so prove it?

Economic growth does not warrant debt ceiling increases as there is more than enough money coming in now to fund the items that FIT was created to fund and economic dollar growth generates more revenue. The problem remains entitlement spending and gov't borrowing of those funds never paying them back, only the interest. Every year now more money goes out than comes i and that creates the security sale to cover the shortfall. There is a solution to this problem and it isn't an FIT increase. Still you haven't answered what benefits came from the tax cuts?

Well if he made all this growth why did Trump the debt ceiling twice and raise it too?
And why didn't you make a peep about it.?

And see..now you are beginning to revert back to ignorance.

Explain again how entitlement spending is the problem when now you know the trust funds paid for themselves with surpluses..and now they hold treasury securities just like any other private treasury holder.



..

 

[Conservative]

Well if he made all this growth why did Trump the debt ceiling twice and raise it too?
And why didn't you make a peep about it.?

Why don't you email him and ask him?

And see..now you are beginning to revert back to ignorance.

Baiting and trolling is what you do best, stick to the topic, do you support increasing the debt ceiling s

Explain again how entitlement spending is the problem when now you know the trust funds paid for themselves with surpluses..and now they hold treasury securities just like any other private treasury holder.

If you bothered to actually open up the Budget breakdown I posted you would understand that the 4.4 trillion Dollar Trump budget was 1.4 trillion in discretionary and 3 trillion in Mandatory spending and what was that deficit for 2018. FIT/CIT and other revenue sources totaled over 2 trillion dollars so you do the math and tell us how much payroll taxes contributed? Mandatory spending is entitlements and funded by FICA tax, a separate tax to fund that entitlement program. FIT was never in the mix

 

[jaeger19]

Why don't you email him and ask him?

Baiting and trolling is what you do best, stick to the topic, do you support increasing the debt ceiling s

If you bothered to actually open up the Budget breakdown I posted you would understand that the 4.4 trillion Dollar Trump budget was 1.4 trillion in discretionary and 3 trillion in Mandatory spending and what was that deficit for 2018. FIT/CIT and other revenue sources totaled over 2 trillion dollars so you do the math and tell us how much payroll taxes contributed? Mandatory spending is entitlements and funded by FICA tax, a separate tax to fund that entitlement program. FIT was never in the mix

1.
Why can't you answer???
Try again.
Well if he made all this growth why did Trump the debt ceiling twice and raise it too?
And why didn't you make a peep about it?

2. Umm no conservative. We have been through this. Mandatory spending is not just " entitlements covered by fica".
It include veterans retirement benefits..
Medicaid.. school lunch program.. refundable tax credits etc.
A whole host of things paid for with FIT and CIT..
As far as medicare and social security? Why yes fica brought in a surplus so it's covered for years.

3. Now..you keep displaying you don't understand growth either..so let's keep visiting it until you get it.

Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..
And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

 

[Conservative]

1.
Why can't you answer???
Try again.
Well if he made all this growth why did Trump the debt ceiling twice and raise it too?
And why didn't you make a peep about it?

Probably because there was no DP thread at that time. What was the debt ceiling

2. Umm no conservative. We have been through this. Mandatory spending is not just " entitlements covered by fica".

Another misinformed liberal. A tax was set up to fund entitlements and it wasn't FIT

It include veterans retirement benefits..
Medicaid.. school lunch program.. refundable tax credits etc.

Post data supporting your claim

A whole host of things paid for with FIT and CIT..
As far as medicare and social security? Why yes fica brought in a surplus so it's covered for years.

Haven't had a surplus since 2010. You have no clue what that surplus funded or why

3. Now..you keep displaying you don't understand growth either..so let's keep visiting it until you get it.

Does the fact that under Obama revenues were 2 trillion while under Reagan they were only 909 billion mean that reagans economic policy was inferior?.

1980 dollars vs 2016? Obama 9.3 trillion debt, Reagan 1.7 trillion

. If growth can occur without government intervention.
If one year growth was 2%..

What does that have to do with the o p

And the next year after a tax cut..its still 2%.. why should you assume the tax cut caused all the following years growth?
Explain.

900 billion dollars GDP dollars vs 500 Billion? Ask your state if they were better off

 

[W_Heisenberg]

gdp dollar growth

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Why don't you email him and ask him?

Baiting and trolling is what you do best, stick to the topic, do you support increasing the debt ceiling s

If you bothered to actually open up the Budget breakdown I posted you would understand that the 4.4 trillion Dollar Trump budget was 1.4 trillion in discretionary and 3 trillion in Mandatory spending and what was that deficit for 2018. FIT/CIT and other revenue sources totaled over 2 trillion dollars so you do the math and tell us how much payroll taxes contributed? Mandatory spending is entitlements and funded by FICA tax, a separate tax to fund that entitlement program. FIT was never in the mix

Why do I get the feeling you argue with random people in grocery story aisles about politics and the management always has to politely ask you to leave.

 

[Kushinator]

Probably because there was no DP thread at that time. What was the debt ceiling

You are full of nonsense.

Here is a Trump quote:

~“I can’t imagine anybody ever even thinking of using the debt ceiling as a negotiating wedge” ~

Here is a thread pertaining to the topic.

Not a single cultist showed their face in that thread. Nobody wonders why.

900 billion dollars GDP dollars vs 500 Billion? Ask your state if they were better off

$2.147 trillion vs $0.9 trillion. Most everyone is better off today than they were 3 years ago.

 

[Kushinator]

gdp dollar growth

$2.147 trillion vs. $900 billion. Suddenly that line of thinking only applies when he wants to apply it.

 

[Conservative]

Why do I get the feeling you argue with random people in grocery story aisles about politics and the management always has to politely ask you to leave.

Why are you in a debate forum never debating the issue? Did your state benefit from the Trump tax cut. Any idea where states get their money and how federal taxes impact that?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Why are you in a debate forum never debating the issue? Did your state benefit from the Trump tax cut. Any idea where states get their money and how federal taxes impact that?

gdp dollar growth.

 

[Conservative]

gdp dollar growth.

No idea how dollars impact sakes tax revenue? Got it

 

[Kushinator]

No idea how dollars impact sakes tax revenue? Got it