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Democrats push to eliminate the debt ceiling, allow unlimited government borrowing

jonny5

jonny5

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The obvious question here is why didnt they do this the last two years when they had control of congress and the white house? Dems just passed a spending bill a few weeks ago without increasing the debt ceiling to allow debt to pay for it. Normally you could just spend the revenue coming in to pay for it, but Dems passed a couple trillion in new spending this FY, so they already spent the record revenue coming in. They also knew about the debt ceiling for even longer than that since they voted to suspend it last year, and were around when it was raised a decade ago. What did they do last year besides increase the debt to 10 trillion over the previous ceiling?

This would of course be disastrous. We are already paying 500bn a year just to service the existing debt. Removing the limit altogether would remove one ability to limit excessive spending, which would further increase the debt leading to further wasted interest payment and more fiscal crisies, and slow the economy.

 
jonny5 said:
The obvious question here is why didnt they do this the last two years when they had control of congress and the white house? Dems just passed a spending bill a few weeks ago without increasing the debt ceiling to allow debt to pay for it. Normally you could just spend the revenue coming in to pay for it, but Dems passed a couple trillion in new spending this FY, so they already spent the record revenue coming in. They also knew about the debt ceiling for even longer than that since they voted to suspend it last year, and were around when it was raised a decade ago. What did they do last year besides increase the debt to 10 trillion over the previous ceiling?

This would of course be disastrous. We are already paying 500bn a year just to service the existing debt. Removing the limit altogether would remove one ability to limit excessive spending, which would further increase the debt leading to further wasted interest payment and more fiscal crisies, and slow the economy.

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"The validity of the public debt of the United States...shall not be questioned." --Fourteenth Amendment

Next question.
 
just read that

liberals will swear this is a great idea - that 33 trillion in debt isn't enough, we need 50 trillion in debt :(
 
jonny5 said:
The obvious question here is why didnt they do this the last two years when they had control of congress and the white house? Dems just passed a spending bill a few weeks ago without increasing the debt ceiling to allow debt to pay for it. Normally you could just spend the revenue coming in to pay for it, but Dems passed a couple trillion in new spending this FY, so they already spent the record revenue coming in. They also knew about the debt ceiling for even longer than that since they voted to suspend it last year, and were around when it was raised a decade ago. What did they do last year besides increase the debt to 10 trillion over the previous ceiling?

This would of course be disastrous. We are already paying 500bn a year just to service the existing debt. Removing the limit altogether would remove one ability to limit excessive spending, which would further increase the debt leading to further wasted interest payment and more fiscal crisies, and slow the economy.

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The filibuster.

They should mint a trillion dollar coin. The debt ceiling has zero to do with spending, only paying for items already bought.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Why didn't the debt ceiling matter when Trump was President?
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It did. It does. And it always has. And it always should matter, regardless who is president.

But especially now that our debt / GDP ratio is well over 125%, we're in a situation that is not financially sustainable.

We need to balance our budget, period.
 
EdwinWillers said:
It did. It does. And it always has. And it always should matter, regardless who is president.

But especially now that our debt / GDP ratio is well over 125%, we're in a situation that is not financially sustainable.

We need to balance our budget, period.
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You're going to need to cut social security, medicare, defense and raise taxes to do that
 
ScrambledEggs said:
Hey everyone debt and deficits matter again to the GOP.

Celebrate goood times c'mon!
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McCarthy suddenly has an issue with raising it despite having voted to raise it in the past. There can and should be a debate on spending, but to put the US credit rating and other defaulting is not the way to do it; especially since the establishment of the debt ceiling was not for this purpose at all.
 
stealthycat said:
just read that

liberals will swear this is a great idea - that 33 trillion in debt isn't enough, we need 50 trillion in debt :(
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Conservatives think it's a great idea too apparently when they are in power. Ronald Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times. Bush raised it 7 times.
 
lwf said:
Conservatives think it's a great idea too apparently when they are in power. Ronald Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times. Bush raised it 7 times.
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today is today - can we all please blame GOP and DNC of the past

and work on the future ?
 
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure.

It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally.

Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
 
lwf said:
Would you prefer a recession?
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its not a one or the other


question - at what debt point will you get concerned? 35 trillion? 50 trillion? 100 trillion ? 230 trillion ?

at some point SOMETHING has to give - the unlimited spending by our Govt has in many ways got us to this point right now - 32 trillion in debt and no end in site, no way or plan to get that paid down,s tarting in 2034, the Social Security administration will run out of the excess reserves it has and will only be able to pay out a portion of a retiree's full benefits — 77% to be exact. ...........

we are on a collision course with absolutely financial default
 
jonny5 said:
The obvious question here is why didnt they do this the last two years when they had control of congress and the white house?
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Does increasing the debt ceiling mean we're spending more money (that hasn't been passed by law)?
 
ScrambledEggs said:
You're going to need to cut social security, medicare, defense and raise taxes to do that
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Or education, environmental...

The core of the problem is - we simply spend too much, more than we take in, especially nowadays. It's not sustainable; and unless measures are taken and taken soon, the end result will be far worse than any short term pain we feel trying to correct that.
 
EdwinWillers said:
It did. It does. And it always has. And it always should matter, regardless who is president.

But especially now that our debt / GDP ratio is well over 125%, we're in a situation that is not financially sustainable.

We need to balance our budget, period.
Click to expand...

do it democratically, by passing a law. And:

Tax. The. Rich.
 
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Blue Dog said:
The debt ceiling is a political canard.

Why bother when it’s nothing but a number waiting for the next increase….
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Ms. Yellen has been intoning for several years now, every time we approach the debt limit, that the only way to address it is to raise it or risk "the full faith and credit of the United States."

Never mind that the very act of constantly raising the debt ceiling as the sole measure taken to combat spending beyond our means is the very reason it does virtually nothing to combat it.
 
jonny5 said:
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Typically misleading and hysterical right-wing spin. Eliminating the debt ceiling would change nothing. Budgets get negotiated and passed without regard to the nonsensical debt ceiling.

In fact, many scholars argue that the 14th Amendment means that it is unconstitutional for the United States to default on its debt. This would mean that there is no legal basis for the United States government to default on its public debt, even if this would mean that its spending would exceed the limit set through the debt ceiling law.

Plus, it's worth pointing out that parties with "cut-costs-or-explode-everything" strategies should not be parties that like to cut taxes without paying for the cuts.
 
www.thebalancemoney.com

How Much Does the Average American Pay in Taxes?

There are several factors that impact U.S. tax rates, but you can average it out. Learn what the average American pays in federal income tax and more.
www.thebalancemoney.com www.thebalancemoney.com

  • The top 50% of taxpayers paid 97.1% of all federal income taxes in 2018. Among those taxpayers, the average income tax rate was 14.6% and the average tax paid was $20,663.
  • In 2019, the top 1% income earners paid 38.77% of total income taxes paid that year.8


MARGINAL TAX RATE INCOME THRESHOLD
10% $0 to $10,275
12%$10,275 to $41,775
22% $41,745 to $89,075
24% $89,075 to $170,050
32% $170,050 to $215,950
35%$215,950 to $539,900
37% $539,900 or more
 
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