Democrats in Virginia Target State’s Right to Work Law for Repeal

[Tanngrisnir]

Technically they don't HAVE to join the union, semantics aside, they are forced to pay dues and representation fees, even if they don't "join" in a non-RTW state. They still have to pay and be subject to the unions rules, just without the right to have a say in the union.

Ah, so you openly admit your claim in the OP was a lie.

Thanks!

 

[Nickyjo]

Unions can and do serve a purpose and have in the past done good. The world has moved on, and Unions generally are not useful and ultimately are not good. Public sector unions are the absolute worst of the bunch.

Tell people whose wages have stagnated these past years that unions are useless. And I worked in the public sector. If we had a union there, my friend could have stood up to corruption he spotted, but he had to keep quiet. A woman sexually harassed by a supervisor had to come to me for help. Yes, there was a personnel policy, but this was in a conservative state where public workers were excluded from some of the rights honored in the private sector. No doubt unions can be annoying. But whistleblowers and others who find corruption are protected by public sector unions. As to the private sector, there are maps readily available on line that show how differently workers fare in states where unions are strong.

As opposed to, say European countries, unions here are much more adversarial, due in part to the violent history of organizing and opposition to organizing here and the habits they created of zero-sum negotiating. Much of this is “labor’s untold story,” as the saying goes. My impression is that unions elsewhere in the developed world have worked much more cooperatively with management. That is our loss, and we have the extraordinary comparative income disparity here as a result.

 

[Renae]

Tell people whose wages have stagnated these past years that unions are useless. And I worked in the public sector. If we had a union there, my friend could have stood up to corruption he spotted, but he had to keep quiet. A woman sexually harassed by a supervisor had to come to me for help. Yes, there was a personnel policy, but this was in a conservative state where public workers were excluded from some of the rights honored in the private sector. No doubt unions can be annoying. But whistleblowers and others who find corruption are protected by public sector unions. As to the private sector, there are maps readily available on line that show how differently workers fare in states where unions are strong.

As opposed to, say European countries, unions here are much more adversarial, due in part to the violent history of organizing and opposition to organizing here and the habits they created of zero-sum negotiating. Much of this is “labor’s untold story,” as the saying goes. My impression is that unions elsewhere in the developed world have worked much more cooperatively with management. That is our loss, and we have the extraordinary comparative income disparity here as a result.

Oh stop it, "stood up to the corruption..." THAT IS WHAT PS UNIONS ARE!

“It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”

That wasn’t Newt Gingrich, or Ron Paul, or Ronald Reagan talking. That was George Meany -- the former president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O -- in 1955. Government unions are unremarkable today, but the labor movement once thought the idea absurd.
Union contracts make it next to impossible to reward excellent teachers or fire failing ones. Union contracts give government employees gold-plated benefits – at the cost of higher taxes and less spending on other priorities. The alternative to Walker's budget was kicking 200,000 children off Medicaid.

Governor Walker’s plan reasserts voter control over government policy. Voters’ elected representatives should decide how the government spends their taxes. More states should heed the A.F.L.-C.I.O. Executive Council’s 1959 advice: “In terms of accepted collective bargaining procedures, government workers have no right beyond the authority to petition Congress — a right available to every citizen.”
F.D.R. Warned Us About Public Sector Unions - NYTimes.com

 

[Nickyjo]

Oh stop it, "stood up to the corruption..." THAT IS WHAT PS UNIONS ARE!

Meany is dead. Times change. And FDR was the boss. Naturally he wouldn’t want unionized workers.

 

[aociswundumho]

Bader points out a new wrinkle in the case the Democrats are making — that the law must be “racist” because it was passed at a time when segregationists were in control of the state.

Democrats, as usual, have got it completely backwards. Labor unions were formed to keep newly freed blacks from competing with whites. As the black historian W.E.B. Du Bois wrote:

I carry on the title page, for instance, of this magazine the Union label, and yet I know, and everyone of my Negro readers knows, that the very fact that this label is there is an advertisement that no Negro’s hand is engaged in the printing of this magazine, since the International Typographical Union systematically and deliberately excludes every Negro that it dares from membership, no matter what his qualifications.


I have, therefore, inveighed against color discrimination by employers and by the rich and well-to-do, knowing at the same time in silence that it is practically impossible for any colored man or woman to become a boiler maker or book binder, an electrical worker or glass maker, a worker in jewelry or leather, a machinist or metal polisher, a paper maker or piano builder, a plumber or a potter, a printer or a pressman, a telegrapher or a railway trackman, an electrotyper or stove mounter, a textile worker or tile layer, a trunk maker, upholster, carpenter, locomotive engineer, switchman, stone cutter, baker, blacksmith, booth and shoemaker, tailor, or any of a dozen other important well-paid employments, without encountering the open determination and unscrupulous opposition of the whole united labor movement of America.

The Black Man and the Unions

That was the motive to create labor unions - filthy racism. Labor unions weren't created to protect workers, they were created to protect white workers.

 

[RealityNow]

Virginia Right to Work & Race -- Democrats Target State's Right to Work Law for Repeal | National Review

That's a platform: Vote for us, we'll force you to be in a union and pay for people who support us!


RTW should be the law of the land, union Thuggery needs to be stamped OUT.

You have no idea of what you are talking about... so all those who got to keep their little $30 something a month... are thrilled... because they were too ignorant to know what benefits it afforded them. Now, they got their $30 something a month in their pockets... they no longer have job paid medical that was provided, they don't have company pension and some don't get all the holidays, and certainly they don't get time and 1/2 pay if they are off on a holiday, and double time if they work the holiday.. they have NO VOICE in the work place and safety regulations are not met as they were in Union shops... Under Trump he wants to do away with safety record keeping, so there is no documented track of safety violation and no record of safety incidents. Right To Work... ensures that Employee have no one to back them up when they file a grievance and some can be dismissed if they file one, with absolutely no explanation....
White Nationalist can promote it all they want... but they will be as much a victim of it, as they think they can make of non whites by supporting it.... it won't bring back 'white first option in everything".

There is nothing more insidious in America than the system mentality of those who try and promote White Nationalism... its a vile that has damaged American for decades upon decades...
Thank goodness we have enough laws e, on the books to stamp it out and now enough aware minded people, to stand against it whenever and where ever it raises it head.

 

[RealityNow]

They have lower labor costs for more reasons than pay, I provided a link showing incomes in RWT are higher in growth than in Union states.

If people are silly enough to want to make 30 cent more an hour... and give up medical, dental and pension contribution and every other benefit Unions fought for... then it is a prime example why so many whine from the Right with the cry of "We've been left behind"... when fact is they dragged themselves backwards out of pure generalized and willful ignorance.

In case you did not know... it was Union scale wages that prodded non union shops to improve their pay, and benefits... because if they had not, then the shops would have become Unionized. Now that union are not as strong.. companies without Unions don't have to increase pay and they don't have to provided benefits and they can play the part time game and fleece and bleed the workers as nothing more than disposable and replaceable components. The wealthy will never give a "damn" about works ... not matter what color their skin is.... so that skin delusional fantasy dreams has made people foolish to back and pander to anything the wealthy tell them to back and support. That's the true mark of "Serfdom".... they always whine that their serf master needs more profit.

 

[Renae]

You have no idea of what you are talking about... so all those who got to keep their little $30 something a month... are thrilled... because they were too ignorant to know what benefits it afforded them. Now, they got their $30 something a month in their pockets... they no longer have job paid medical that was provided, they don't have company pension and some don't get all the holidays, and certainly they don't get time and 1/2 pay if they are off on a holiday, and double time if they work the holiday.. they have NO VOICE in the work place and safety regulations are not met as they were in Union shops... Under Trump he wants to do away with safety record keeping, so there is no documented track of safety violation and no record of safety incidents. Right To Work... ensures that Employee have no one to back them up when they file a grievance and some can be dismissed if they file one, with absolutely no explanation....
White Nationalist can promote it all they want... but they will be as much a victim of it, as they think they can make of non whites by supporting it.... it won't bring back 'white first option in everything".

There is nothing more insidious in America than the system mentality of those who try and promote White Nationalism... its a vile that has damaged American for decades upon decades...
Thank goodness we have enough laws e, on the books to stamp it out and now enough aware minded people, to stand against it whenever and where ever it raises it head.

That you played a weak race card shows you know how weak your argument is

 

[RealityNow]

That you played a weak race card shows you know how weak your argument is

Deal with facts.... trying to deny the long history of white nationalism is the same as trying to pretend it does not exist. you got hung up on a fact you don't like and missed the whole of the elements that workers lost in their fight against union.... Maybe you could benefit from learning the history of how and why fights against Union's started in overdrive mode, the minute Civil Rights Laws were pass that allowed WOMEN and MINORITIES to join.... as the once upon a time pathway to middle class economic pathway... you should be questing why? then you'd understand how white nationalism played into it.

But, I know... its typical.. many white people especially on the Right Winger side, loves to try and ignore truths, they never had interest to learn about.

 

[Renae]

Deal with facts.... trying to deny the long history of white nationalism is the same as trying to pretend it does not exist. you got hung up on a fact you don't like and missed the whole of the elements that workers lost in their fight against union.... Maybe you could benefit from learning the history of how and why fights against Union's started in overdrive mode, the minute Civil Rights Laws were pass that allowed WOMEN and MINORITIES to join.... as the once upon a time pathway to middle class economic pathway... you should be questing why? then you'd understand how white nationalism played into it.

But, I know... its typical.. many white people especially on the Right Winger side, loves to try and ignore truths, they never had interest to learn about.

When all you have is "BUT THERE WAS RACISM!!!" you've basically held up the white flag of logical debate surrender and are appealing only to emotionalism and race card to score points. You are dismissed.

 

[RealityNow]

When all you have is "BUT THERE WAS RACISM!!!" you've basically held up the white flag of logical debate surrender and are appealing only to emotionalism and race card to score points. You are dismissed.

Please don't waste my time with commentary response due to your obstinacy to acknowledge the realism of racial based elements that exist in society.... so, if you don't care to know or face the reality of society... you are so willfully unable to face such truth... until you miss the entirety of points, because you can't get beyond your incessant urgency to deny the racial biased elements that has existed in America for 100's of years.

Your tag line tells all that is needed to know about you..( It's straight out of Right Wing Race Based insidiousness) it represent the fact you are even unaware of who is the greatest pool of public service users.. and more so, how unaware you are of the many who work and work hard among many in society that do work and still require benefits to make it.

While you are so hung up on your right wing point... then talk to the employer's who rely on the government to pay for benefits, they should provide high enough wages and possibly a benefit packages so the people who work for them won't need public assistance. But, being Conservative.... its no mystery that such a thought escapes awareness completely.

While you are at it... contact big oil and other corporations and address with inquiry why they need so many $10's and $100 of billions of public taxpayers money, when they report profit every 3 months in the $billions... yet... they still don't pay taxes... If anything, they should not be getting such grants... they can borrow it and pay it back with interest, since their profit margins are so high... But again, being Conservatives, that thought would never down on the Conservative Mindset.

 

[AmNat]

Virginia Right to Work & Race -- Democrats Target State's Right to Work Law for Repeal | National Review

That's a platform: Vote for us, we'll force you to be in a union and pay for people who support us!


RTW should be the law of the land, union Thuggery needs to be stamped OUT.

RTW is an intrusive government regulation that encourages free riders and prevents unions and employers from freely entering contracts with each other. It should be abolished.

Also, federal law prohibits anyone from being required to join a union as a condition of employment. Union agreements simply require all employees to pay dues.

 

[Waddy]

Virginia Right to Work & Race -- Democrats Target State's Right to Work Law for Repeal | National Review

That's a platform: Vote for us, we'll force you to be in a union and pay for people who support us!


RTW should be the law of the land, union Thuggery needs to be stamped OUT.

I don't see how in a free country Right to Work isn't the law of the land.

BTW; they also oppose secret ballots for union voting.

 

[Waddy]

RTW is an intrusive government regulation that encourages free riders and prevents unions and employers from freely entering contracts with each other. It should be abolished.

Also, federal law prohibits anyone from being required to join a union as a condition of employment. Union agreements simply require all employees to pay dues.

Screw that. I taught in a public high school (district) with a union and crossed picket lines twice in my career to do the job I was hired for. I refused to hold my students hostage. And you know what... not once in 30 years did the union demands have anything to do with kids. They were ALWAYS about salary and benefits. And when you do occasionally hear a demand that classes be reduced in size that's also to make the job easier.

 

[AmNat]

Screw that. I taught in a public high school (district) with a union and crossed picket lines twice in my career to do the job I was hired for. I refused to hold my students hostage. And you know what... not once in 30 years did the union demands have anything to do with kids. They were ALWAYS about salary and benefits. And when you do occasionally hear a demand that classes be reduced in size that's also to make the job easier.

As noted, federal law prohibits anyone from being required to join a union. So your right to cross picket lines as a non-union employee was never jeopardized. Union shop agreements merely ensure adequate funding for the union.

Also for the record, I'm not a fan of public sector unions. The last three years have demonstrated beyond all doubt that public employees have far too much power and job security.

 

[Drawdown]

You have no idea of what you are talking about... so all those who got to keep their little $30 something a month... are thrilled... because they were too ignorant to know what benefits it afforded them. Now, they got their $30 something a month in their pockets... they no longer have job paid medical that was provided, they don't have company pension and some don't get all the holidays, and certainly they don't get time and 1/2 pay if they are off on a holiday, and double time if they work the holiday.. they have NO VOICE in the work place and safety regulations are not met as they were in Union shops... Under Trump he wants to do away with safety record keeping, so there is no documented track of safety violation and no record of safety incidents. Right To Work... ensures that Employee have no one to back them up when they file a grievance and some can be dismissed if they file one, with absolutely no explanation....
White Nationalist can promote it all they want... but they will be as much a victim of it, as they think they can make of non whites by supporting it.... it won't bring back 'white first option in everything".

There is nothing more insidious in America than the system mentality of those who try and promote White Nationalism... its a vile that has damaged American for decades upon decades...
Thank goodness we have enough laws e, on the books to stamp it out and now enough aware minded people, to stand against it whenever and where ever it raises it head.

You are standing with Ralph Black Face Northam and acting like you are standing up for minorities. Really?

 

[TurtleDude]

No one will be 'forced into a union'.
Huh. Staring off a thread w/a bald faced lie is never a good idea.

Do you support the USSC's Beck decision? I sure do

 

[TurtleDude]

RTW is an intrusive government regulation that encourages free riders and prevents unions and employers from freely entering contracts with each other. It should be abolished.

Also, federal law prohibits anyone from being required to join a union as a condition of employment. Union agreements simply require all employees to pay dues.

why shouldn't an employer be able to fire anyone who joins a union?

 

[Waddy]

As noted, federal law prohibits anyone from being required to join a union. So your right to cross picket lines as a non-union employee was never jeopardized. Union shop agreements merely ensure adequate funding for the union.

Also for the record, I'm not a fan of public sector unions. The last three years have demonstrated beyond all doubt that public employees have far too much power and job security.

Wish you'd been there to tell that to the picket line. As far as not being forced to join a union..."force" is a very subjective term. Coercion might be a better word. technically you can't be forced, but you sure can be pressured. Or even threatened.

My city requires all police and fire to live in the city limits. All that did was create a powerful voting block. Nice to have come election time. And again during bargaining.

BTW; that "adequate funding" is also donated to certain political campaigns.

 

[RealityNow]

You are standing with Ralph Black Face Northam and acting like you are standing up for minorities. Really?

I am a supporter of Unions, for "American Workers", black, white and others!!!!

 

[Drawdown]

I am a supporter of Unions, for "American Workers", black, white and others!!!!

I am a supporter of Americans, unionized or otherwise....and you can pretty much kiss any chance of RTW being overturned in Virginia goodbye.

 

[JasperL]

Virginia Right to Work & Race -- Democrats Target State's Right to Work Law for Repeal | National Review

That's a platform: Vote for us, we'll force you to be in a union and pay for people who support us!

RTW should be the law of the land, union Thuggery needs to be stamped OUT.

I think the usual "market" response to bad working conditions is if you don't like it, leave for another job somewhere else without a union.

Bottom line is if you want the union negotiated pay, benefits, and all the rest, you pay for the union. If you don't like the union, the workers can vote to disband it.

 

[jaeger19]

Right-to-Work Laws: The Economic Evidence (2018 Update) | U.S. Chamber of Commerce



Pesky things, facts. They ruin your silly political nonsense.

Not really.

In this paper, we update that research and subject the results to a series of robustness tests. We utilize more recent data from the Current Population Survey, and employ a cost-of-living indicator from the Bureau of Economic Analysis that was only made available in the years following the release of Gould and Shierholz (2011). Last, we subject our results to various robustness tests as suggested by Sherk (2015) regarding choice of specific explanatory variables. We find that the main results hold under any reasonable alternative specifications. Only extensive data-mining and non-standard specifications of wage equations can move the estimated RTW penalty to statistical insignificance. Our central findings are:
Wages in RTW states are 3.1 percent lower than those in non-RTW states, after controlling for a full complement of individual demographic and socioeconomic factors as well as state macroeconomic indicators. This translates into RTW being associated with $1,558 lower annual wages for a typical full-time, full-year worker.
The relationship between RTW status and wages remains economically and statistically significant under alternative specifications of our econometric model.

“Right-to-Work” States Still Have Lower Wages | Economic Policy Institute

 

[jaeger19]

why shouldn't an employer be able to fire anyone who joins a union?

Because employees have the right to associate with who they wish.

 

[jaeger19]

Screw that. I taught in a public high school (district) with a union and crossed picket lines twice in my career to do the job I was hired for. I refused to hold my students hostage. And you know what... not once in 30 years did the union demands have anything to do with kids. They were ALWAYS about salary and benefits. And when you do occasionally hear a demand that classes be reduced in size that's also to make the job easier.

And you obviously benefited from the union.. as it was reflected in your salary and benefits.