Democrats don't understand what it means to be educated

[Paradoxical]

Here is the link mentioned in my post above:

Former Democratic donor on Harris loss: ‘No talent,’ can ‘never’ run for president again | Fox News Video

Morgan & Morgan founder John Morgan shares his take on Vice President Kamala Harris’ 2024 election loss on ‘Jesse Watters Primetime.’

www.foxnews.com

As for the extreme left posters here who I haven't ignored, it would be wise to re-examine your beliefs, your philosophy, your moral preening, your posting that only college educated people should be politics and life, ...........America was founded and created by farmers, carpenters, machinists, Christians, laborers and tough people....not soy boys like Walz and Kamala's hubby or the Buttigiegs of the world who are so sissified they need 4 months off on my dime to be with their lover boy.

 

[choiceone]

Basketweaving, Woman's Rights and DEI in the workplace degrees have taken a bigger nosedive since Trump won and are on a par with the value of a Mexican Peso.

Au contrare, unlike you, I read. I also read Trump's 2.025 statements 2025 times that he had nothing to do with it.

Look, Commyla and her twenty something campaign coordinators knew they were toast and had no message of plans and all they could was to demonize Trump and make people fear him. P2025 was just one of those fear tactics, which is that Trump would somehow ban abortions nationwide even though he had nothing to do with that and the SC ruled that abortion is a state's rights issue.

No one had to demonize Trump or make people fear him. Jan 6 was enough. Even his daughter told him he lost the 2020 election and should admit it after his case lost in all those courts, many presided over by Republican judges and even judges he himself had appointed. That he allowed Jan 6 to happen was all that was needed.

But the P2025 was just what could be expected of conservatives who planned to run Trump again. It doesn't really matter that Trump didn't generate P2025. He is owned by the people who did.

And the notion that the Dobbs ruling was correct is silly. However flawed Roe was, Dobbs was worse. And eventually, if we are ever allowed to have a real representative democratic republic again after Trump 2, Dobbs will be overturned. Of course, it won't be if the new GOP has anything to say about it, because the GOP itself has collected all the fascistic, authoritarian people in the US now.

 

[choiceone]

If you were or are afraid of death due to child birth, that settles it. I doubt you are the norm there.

What does "norm" mean?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/13/dobbs-pregnancy-maternal-health-00115561

This article indicates that in a US poll in 2023, about a third of young women were afraid to have kids because of the bad maternal care in the US. This isn't about mere death. It's about serious injury and illness, the possibility of long-term incontinence, and other issues, such as being forced to give birth to serious fetal anomalies..

When you make a fetus more important than a pregnant woman, you tell women that they're trash.

 

[Paradoxical]

No one had to demonize Trump or make people fear him. Jan 6 was enough. Even his daughter told him he lost the 2020 election and should admit it after his case lost in all those courts, many presided over by Republican judges and even judges he himself had appointed. That he allowed Jan 6 to happen was all that was needed.

But the P2025 was just what could be expected of conservatives who planned to run Trump again. It doesn't really matter that Trump didn't generate P2025. He is owned by the people who did.

And the notion that the Dobbs ruling was correct is silly. However flawed Roe was, Dobbs was worse. And eventually, if we are ever allowed to have a real representative democratic republic again after Trump 2, Dobbs will be overturned. Of course, it won't be if the new GOP has anything to say about it, because the GOP itself has collected all the fascistic, authoritarian people in the US now.

Again, it is a lie and a KNOWN lie that Trump had anything to do with P2025. As for 1-6, Trump also had no idea they would BREAK In to the capital. To blame him is insane.

Abortion is NOT a federal matter. Maybe in Europe or Canada it is, but not America and you and others need to understand that. Trump knew this and that he had to appoint constitutionalists to the bench not solely for abortion but for everything else. He has said he would not stop states from allowing unfettered abortions, so all you need do is move to Kalifornia. Problem solved. Or to Europe, Canada. This is the United STATES and you need to know this.

 

[Paradoxical]

What does "norm" mean?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/13/dobbs-pregnancy-maternal-health-00115561

This article indicates that in a US poll in 2023, about a third of young women were afraid to have kids because of the bad maternal care in the US. This isn't about mere death. It's about serious injury and illness, the possibility of long-term incontinence, and other issues, such as being forced to give birth to serious fetal anomalies..

When you make a fetus more important than a pregnant woman, you tell women that they're trash.

This is irrelevant, and I will not research a far-left politico opinion. We are all afraid of things and do them anyway. Deal with it. It's called life.

 

[choiceone]

You covered a lot of topics but I detect a theme in your posts about someone's education. You seem to think that those who attended a 4 year college are the only smart people in America and they should run everything because those in the trades are dumb. This is an elitist attitude and the reason your side lost. You are now the party of the snobbish college educated elitists who think you are better than all the rest.

The coup de grace by Trump to seal the deal was him wearing the garbage truck vest. That old the elitist snobs to take your college degrees and shove it where the sun don't shine.

First, being intelligent and being aware of available information are two different things. You don't have to go to college to be either. But if you spend 8 hours working at a job that doesn't provide information related to all relevant aspects of sociopolitical events, and another 8 hours sleeping, all you have in a day is 8 hours. Some of those hours are for bathing, eating, family, and recreation after a hard day's work. Do you really think working people are so stupid that they don't know some other people specialize in fields not their own and can be used to provide reliable information on things for them?

You are now the snobbish elitist, assuming that working people are so ignorant and foolish as to use plumbers as doctors and cowboys as the right people to run the Navy.

The purpose of getting a college degree or a grad degree is to know more about a specialized field of information, and a normally intelligent person wants to consult such people about those fields instead of pretending he or she already knows everything about everything.

 

[choiceone]

So "It might be a stupid thing to do to not get a degree..." that doesn't pay?

If what you want is more pay, it makes sense not to go to college and study things that will lead to a degree in a field that won't give it to you.

But to spend your life caring so much about monetary pay that you imagine everything you study should bring you wealth is already a stupid thing to do.

 

[choiceone]

Here is the link mentioned in my post above:

Former Democratic donor on Harris loss: ‘No talent,’ can ‘never’ run for president again | Fox News Video

Morgan & Morgan founder John Morgan shares his take on Vice President Kamala Harris’ 2024 election loss on ‘Jesse Watters Primetime.’

www.foxnews.com

As for the extreme left posters here who I haven't ignored, it would be wise to re-examine your beliefs, your philosophy, your moral preening, your posting that only college educated people should be politics and life, ...........America was founded and created by farmers, carpenters, machinists, Christians, laborers and tough people....not soy boys like Walz and Kamala's hubby or the Buttigiegs of the world who are so sissified they need 4 months off on my dime to be with their lover boy.

I'll refrain from comments about other people here - but Buttigieg did a stint as a soldier, in Iraq if I recall, which is not what a sissy would do. Are you a war vet? If not, I'd shut up about him if I were you.

 

[Paradoxical]

First, being intelligent and being aware of available information are two different things. You don't have to go to college to be either. But if you spend 8 hours working at a job that doesn't provide information related to all relevant aspects of sociopolitical events, and another 8 hours sleeping, all you have in a day is 8 hours. Some of those hours are for bathing, eating, family, and recreation after a hard day's work. Do you really think working people are so stupid that they don't know some other people specialize in fields not their own and can be used to provide reliable information on things for them?

You are now the snobbish elitist, assuming that working people are so ignorant and foolish as to use plumbers as doctors and cowboys as the right people to run the Navy.

The purpose of getting a college degree or a grad degree is to know more about a specialized field of information, and a normally intelligent person wants to consult such people about those fields instead of pretending he or she already knows everything about everything.

I of course disagree completely. Depending on someone major in college that only makes them more knowledgeable about THAT filed. Let's take a doctor, for instance. No question that he knows far more than most anyone else on the human body and diseases and things related to the medical field. Then after that, all day long he works at a hospital. How does that make him smarter than anyone else on politics, philosophy, writing, psychology, life in general?

Replace doctor with any other degree and tell me how you or that person is smarter than a mechanic.

 

[Paradoxical]

I'll refrain from comments about other people here - but Buttigieg did a stint as a soldier, in Iraq if I recall, which is not what a sissy would do. Are you a war vet? If not, I'd shut up about him if I were you.

He's a sissy and his mannerisms are effeminate as is his view of life. Being in the service doesn't make someone NOT a sissy.

 

[choiceone]

Again, it is a lie and a KNOWN lie that Trump had anything to do with P2025. As for 1-6, Trump also had no idea they would BREAK In to the capital. To blame him is insane.

Ridiculous. Trump invited them to DC and to march to the Capitol. He wanted to go with them. He knew they wanted to hang Pence and didn't care. He watched them all violently invade the Capitol on TV without being the least surprised, for hours.

Abortion is NOT a federal matter. Maybe in Europe or Canada it is, but not America and you and others need to understand that. Trump knew this and that he had to appoint constitutionalists to the bench not solely for abortion but for everything else. He has said he would not stop states from allowing unfettered abortions, so all you need do is move to Kalifornia. Problem solved. Or to Europe, Canada. This is the United STATES and you need to know this.

Abortion IS a federal matter. Abortion means a pregnancy ending in a way other than birth. Twenty to 25% of known pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, and the treatment of ectopic pregnancies and incomplete miscarriages as well as pregnancies with fatally defective fetuses IS induced abortion. Abortion is induced to save the lives of pregnant women, to prevent pregnant women having organ failure. In addition, rape and incest victims choose abortion at a rate of about 50% when given a choice, and it is frequently recommended because rape increases the risk of certain serious pregnancy diseases that can render a woman disabled. Childbirth is not harmless, and for ages below twenty, and over 40, women face greater risks of serious health problems.

You need to understand, too, that because abortion was legal at the state level before quickening in the original states, and no one at the time of the writing of the Constitution thought abortion was murder, so no one believed an embryo or fetus was a person. If you don't understand all that, you don't understand the United States of America.

The people Trump appointed were nothing but Federalist Society conservative lackeys whose interpretation of the Constitution is so conservative it's 19th century and so Catholic it's religiously biased and when we finally get rid of the bias created by anti-abortion people, the whole of the US will change once again.

Women have rights as persons not only to life but to liberty and property.

If the state doesn't have a right to put a penis inside a woman without her consent, how can it have a right to implant or keep implanted an embryo or fetus in her uterus without her consent?

 

[choiceone]

I of course disagree completely. Depending on someone major in college that only makes them more knowledgeable about THAT filed. Let's take a doctor, for instance. No question that he knows far more than most anyone else on the human body and diseases and things related to the medical field. Then after that, all day long he works at a hospital. How does that make him smarter than anyone else on politics, philosophy, writing, psychology, life in general?

Replace doctor with any other degree and tell me how you or that person is smarter than a mechanic.

Why are you disagreeing? I said what you said. A smart mechanic relies on a doctor to be a doctor, a soldier to be a soldier, an electronic engineer to be an electronic engineer, etc. People who are intelligent, and that includes people both with and without degrees, rely on others with specialized knowledge and experience in fields other than their own.

But for whatever reason, the Trumpers didn't. Trump didn't have knowledge about things other than private business when he was first elected to be president, and even after four years in the presidency, he was proposing to do things that violated the US Constitution and constantly firing people when he didn't like their specialized expertise. And now he's appointing a lot of people without proper experience or knowledge to post where they ought to need it and he doesn't have it, either.

If a Democrat did this, you'd be having a nervous breakdown.

 

[choiceone]

He's a sissy and his mannerisms are effeminate as is his view of life. Being in the service doesn't make someone NOT a sissy.

Define sissy.

 

[choiceone]

Cost-benefit analysis is silly?

I don't.

The left's student debt whining already made my point for me.

Of course cost-benefit analysis is silly unless it's being applied to an activity that is intended to be for financial profit. But going to college and embarking on a higher education has many purposes, and future financial profit is only one, and can't be counted on. If you are in college or have just graduated and suddenly get in a terrible accident that renders you disabled for work in your field of specialization, it is only a total loss if your only purpose was work in that specialized field.

There are many purposes of higher education, and some are fulfilled even when others aren't. If you don't have any purpose but future financial profit, college is wasted on you. When I lived in Tokyo, a reasonable looking young white woman could make US $1000 a night if she worked as an elite call girl for the rich and didn't even have to do anything kinky. If I had been interest only in financial profit, that might have seemed like a pretty good job choice. But since I didn't believe in prostitution (and still don't), I contented myself with teaching English as a second language at a college, a couple of elite private high schools, and privately in some corporations. I still think I got a lot a good out of this, but I didn't make a lot of money.

But I totally agree that going into serious debt is a major problem. I myself got merit fellowships and teaching assistantships to go to grad school, and I wouldn't have gone otherwise.

 

[quip]

The Liberal's world seems to be collapsing around itself. President Trump has broken them. It couldn't happen to a nicer group of people. (but... but... but... Trump is a Nazi, convicted felon, racist and rapist. And he steals children's allowances! )

Sonny Hostin may have unveiled the real reason why the Democrats lost the election, but she had it all wrong. She recently said on "The View," that "What we did not have is white women, who voted about 52% for Donald Trump – uneducated white women is my understanding."

One of the realities of why the Democrats lost this election in the landslide is thinking they have a monopoly on defining what being "educated" means in America today and here’s the reality of what this word means in America today. Let’s examine this.

click here to read... unless you are triggered by Fox News. If that's the case then here is your binky.

Getting an education is more than "getting a degree".
It's gaining perspective to a world with a rich diversity of ideas, values, cultures, religions...etc.

It's getting out of your bubble and realizing the podunk values your local community held are but a narrow sample of a larger whole. A perspective the MAGAts are in sore need of...."degrees" notwithstanding.

 

[Paradoxical]

Why are you disagreeing? I said what you said. A smart mechanic relies on a doctor to be a doctor, a soldier to be a soldier, an electronic engineer to be an electronic engineer, etc. People who are intelligent, and that includes people both with and without degrees, rely on others with specialized knowledge and experience in fields other than their own.

But for whatever reason, the Trumpers didn't. Trump didn't have knowledge about things other than private business when he was first elected to be president, and even after four years in the presidency, he was proposing to do things that violated the US Constitution and constantly firing people when he didn't like their specialized expertise. And now he's appointing a lot of people without proper experience or knowledge to post where they ought to need it and he doesn't have it, either.

If a Democrat did this, you'd be having a nervous breakdown.

One of the things I criticized Trump for before was his hiring because those he hired were backstabbers. The reason he hired them was on the advice of politicians because he was a newcomer. It was asking a criminal to guard the bank. He learned his lesson and is now hiring people he knows will follow what he wants instead of sabotaging him, like a few Generals did to him before as well as other cabinet members.

As for Biden, he hired Blinken t=who botched Afghanistan and Ukraine as well as Israel. Buttigieg was a failed mayor. Garland is a partisan. Many others have contributed to the ruination of America including people like Mayorkass.

So much for hiring entrenched politicians because they know politics better, eh?

 

[choiceone]

For all those who want to understand about the student loan debt complaints -

On this site, see especially the section on For-Profit Education and Institutional Dishonesty

Student Loan Debt Crisis (Explained): Facts, Causes & Effects

Data and statistics on the student loan debt bubble in America. Learn how it happened, how bad it is and its negative effects.

educationdata.org

This is very brief. For those who want to understand why there was a lot of whining, google with buzzwords like predatory student lending. Apparently, there are some good reasons why at least some people whined.

 

[Cosmo]

No college degree, but vocational school is usually required if you are going to make that amount of money. Actually, a high school diploma, vocational school and period of apprenticeship which differs from state to state, but here in Maryland, that would be 4 years or 7500 hours logged.

It costs anywhere from $1000 to $15000 to become a plumber. If you go the apprentice route, it's cheaper, but you are learning from an individual who may or may not do a good job teaching you the basics and to pass the test to get your license, but the upshot is that you get paid while you do your 4 to 5 years apprenticeship.

If you go to vocational school. that's where it gets expensive and goes towards the $15000 mark. Some schools will allow concurrent apprenticeship for the time in school, some don't. So, there is that, but you get your license more quickly and are able to get a choice of where you work or for yourself after your apprenticeship. Whereas the apprenticeship will usually require you to work for the company mentoring you for a few years and may prevent you from joining a union during that time (more on that in a moment).

The Dept. of Education and many states offer grants paid for by taxpayers to help offset costs of vocational school but not apprenticeships.

Depending on the state, it takes four to five years to become a plumber, and to get the 100k pay you have to be a master plumber which takes 7 to 10 years (including the 4 to 5 years training and apprenticeship). And join a union. Plumber unions are the largest unions in the nation. And will help you get to that $100K and more number of earnings.

So...a bit more involved with a highly possibility of incurring debt as well than you are letting on.

Yes one can screw up anything I suppose, but getting paid (even if it's not a lot) to learn on the job isn't even close to the same as getting $100,000-$200,000 in debt for something that may be meaningless.

 

[Cosmo]

For all those who want to understand about the student loan debt complaints -

On this site, see especially the section on For-Profit Education and Institutional Dishonesty

Yes, I'm reading this. I don't see any specifics. Just the number of complaints and vague descriptions like "Among these, 2,295 or 15.6% specifically claimed problems dealing with loan servicers." Um...I've dealt with loans before (though not student loans in particular), but 99% of the time there's an autopay option (usually highly encouraged by the lender no less) - just fill it in and they pull the money each month. What "dealing" are we talking about?

Student Loan Debt Crisis (Explained): Facts, Causes & Effects

Data and statistics on the student loan debt bubble in America. Learn how it happened, how bad it is and its negative effects.

educationdata.org

This is very brief. For those who want to understand why there was a lot of whining, google with buzzwords like predatory student lending. Apparently, there are some good reasons why at least some people whined.

 

[Cosmo]

Of course cost-benefit analysis is silly unless it's being applied to an activity that is intended to be for financial profit. But going to college and embarking on a higher education has many purposes, and future financial profit is only one, and can't be counted on. If you are in college or have just graduated and suddenly get in a terrible accident that renders you disabled for work in your field of specialization, it is only a total loss if your only purpose was work in that specialized field.

There are many purposes of higher education, and some are fulfilled even when others aren't. If you don't have any purpose but future financial profit, college is wasted on you.

Puhleeze! Every poll I've seen shows the overwhelming majority of people who go to college do so for earning potential. And if you do it for some other reason, you should at least pay for it with money you have.

When I lived in Tokyo, a reasonable looking young white woman could make US $1000 a night if she worked as an elite call girl for the rich and didn't even have to do anything kinky. If I had been interest only in financial profit, that might have seemed like a pretty good job choice. But since I didn't believe in prostitution (and still don't), I contented myself with teaching English as a second language at a college, a couple of elite private high schools, and privately in some corporations. I still think I got a lot a good out of this, but I didn't make a lot of money.

But I totally agree that going into serious debt is a major problem. I myself got merit fellowships and teaching assistantships to go to grad school, and I wouldn't have gone otherwise.

 

[Bodi]

That should be easy for anyone to calculate. For example, it's like 10k to become a CPA, so you review how much a fresh CPA earns in the labor market and decide if that salary is worth spending the time and the 10k to become a CPA.

If you get a degree in lesbian dance theory, then it's your fault when you end up working at McDonald's for not doing your research ahead of time.

I am obviously not arguing about the math.

 

[aociswundumho]

But I totally agree that going into serious debt is a major problem.

Handing out student loans like candy under the pretense of "equity" subsidizes demand, which is the main reason college got so expensive.

 

[nota bene]

I of course disagree completely. Depending on someone major in college that only makes them more knowledgeable about THAT filed. Let's take a doctor, for instance. No question that he knows far more than most anyone else on the human body and diseases and things related to the medical field. Then after that, all day long he works at a hospital. How does that make him smarter than anyone else on politics, philosophy, writing, psychology, life in general?

Replace doctor with any other degree and tell me how you or that person is smarter than a mechanic.

That wasn't what she said, though.

I'm confused about "Let's take a doctor, for instance. No question that he knows far more than most anyone else on the human body and diseases and things related to the medical field. Then after that, all day long he works at a hospital." After all what?

Is "smarter" the right word here? Aren't we talking about training and skill-sets and competencies rather than raw IQ?

 

[Paradoxical]

That wasn't what she said, though.

I'm confused about "Let's take a doctor, for instance. No question that he knows far more than most anyone else on the human body and diseases and things related to the medical field. Then after that, all day long he works at a hospital." After all what?

Is "smarter" the right word here? Aren't we talking about training and skill-sets and competencies rather than raw IQ?

I am talking about the hubris and arrogance of those on the left who claim that those who did not go to college are dumb and inferior to those who did. Take a doctor, a scientist, or any other major and how does that make them smarter than an electrician or factory worker except in their college major?

 

[choiceone]

Yes, I'm reading this. I don't see any specifics. Just the number of complaints and vague descriptions like "Among these, 2,295 or 15.6% specifically claimed problems dealing with loan servicers." Um...I've dealt with loans before (though not student loans in particular), but 99% of the time there's an autopay option (usually highly encouraged by the lender no less) - just fill it in and they pull the money each month. What "dealing" are we talking about?

I can't find it any more, but there was an article that gave specific examples of problems sort of like this -

Because the person failed to pay back the loan by a particular date or because some other collector took over, he or she had to begin paying back again. That is, the collector was taking double what had been borrowed.

I don't remember the details, and don't guarantee that I have reported it right, but I remember being horrified by the collector fraud and understanding at least some of the whiners for the first time. Apparently, there are all sorts of complications of this type. It's not just a matter of borrowing directly from the government and then paying back the government directly with interest. There are all sorts of in-between "companies" involved. Sounds totally screwy, like the housing loan scandals of 2008.