Democracy the Downfall of America? [W:318]

[Euphoress]

Democracy has proven to be highly effective for starting any country, or nation. It provides citizens a notion of freedom, and a political voice. Unfortunately, a democracy is only beneficial as long as the population is educated in current events and all things politics. Without a educated society, there is no way a democracy can maintain its power. Right now Americas education is at an all time low. The same people that are not graduating high school are being trusted to make decisions that effects lives all around the world. Our democratic system simply is not complying with our current education. Does it ever bother you that the homeless man you just walked pas has the exact same say in the future of the government as you do? Studies show that over 50% of voters do not know how many amendments there are in the constitution. How can someone make an informed decision without knowing basic information?

There are options, of course, without turning our government into an all out dictatorship. For one, we can attempt to reshape our school systems. This would essentially take out two birds with one stone. By changing the schools we change the education rate, which is a major problem that needs solving. It also fixes the problem of our government's political system, because, again, democracy is completely ineffective with a uninformed society.

The other option is to add a test, of a sort, for all new voters. Meaning, the first time someone votes, they have to take a quiz about politics, maybe sprinkle in a little current events as well. If they pass then they can vote, if not then they will have to wait tell next year to take it again. That way, only the politically active members of society actually get to vote, while the others can do no harm to our government.

 

[Master PO]

democracy is the most vile form of government--james madsion

 

[ecofarm]

People have the right to be one-issue voters, ignorant of other considerations. If one doesn't like it, address the issue. We need as many perspectives as we can get and there's nothing wrong with specialization and focus.

 

[head of joaquin]

Looks like Euphoress is going to provide lots of OPs in the rightwing anti-democratic mode.

There is not alternative to democracy. I don't want you or people like you telling the majority of Americans how to run their country. We'll do it without you.

 

[Northern Light]

The more I research the matter, the less I believe that democracy itself is the problem; it's that each incarnation of democracy is not yet foolproof. Thus we keep rising and falling. Human social evolution is going to require us to go through the cycles of governance over and over until such point that we achieve sufficient sociopolitical refinement that we maintain it. This is the greater historical arch of humanity, IMO.

Regardless of the reason for its decay, the ability to maintain a democracy is always going to hinge upon people's faith in the system being workable. One of the classic symptoms of a waning democracy is its people questioning whether or not democracy is tenable. What they usually fail to realize before it's too late is that the erosions they are witnessing are not due to democracy's flaws, but to the ignoring of the very counter-forces in human nature which work to usurp it. The one thing that unites all political systems is that their longevity is dependent upon faith. Our Constitution was clearly written with human nature in mind, but it did not account for eveything, and there is no way to contractualize "faith" into a piece of paper. Either the polity has it or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then all the written works in the world won't matter.

Democracies fall for three common reasons: 1) Invasion or hostile takeover. 2) Resource burden leading to decline in living standards, and thus a decline in the national cohesion of broader participation. (Usually evidenced by more hostile language, and frequent wars.) 3) Demagoguery supplanting rational political processes.

I think #3 is happening more and more in the United States, but it's a direct result of #2. Burried underneath all the political polarization is the core truth, which is that America is a resource-strapped nation right now. Most of our capital is no longer government owned, or is on loan to us, and thus we need new capital to secure the value of our currency. I know the Rome analogy is really over-used, but there is one truth about it which applies: Rome was embroiled in constant inter-state conflict before its fall because it was increasingly in debt and needed to acquire new territories. Yet these same campaigns stretched the polity thin.

The one word that summarizes what the U.S. must do now for long term solvency, is to consolidate.

 

[Master PO]

Looks like Euphoress is going to provide lots of OPs in the rightwing anti-democratic mode.

There is not alternative to democracy. I don't want you or people like you telling the majority of Americans how to run their country. We'll do it without you.

oh, your for majority rule then!

 

[head of joaquin]

oh, your for majority rule then!

Oh you're not. You want to tell the majority of Americans what to do. That's special.

By the way, democracy takes many forms and involves many different constraints. So while I encourage you to leave, you really don't have to if that's your issue.

 

[Master PO]

Oh you're not. You want to tell the majority of Americans what to do. That's special.

no i am not for majority rule in all aspects of government becuase it is tyranny, and Madison states.

The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny --federalist 47


elective
 

e·lec·tive
[ih-lek-tiv] Show IPA
adjective
1.
pertaining to the principle of electing to an office, position, etc.
2.
chosen by election, as an official.
3.
bestowed by or derived from election, as an office.
4.
having the power or right of electing to office, as a body of persons.
5.
open to choice; optional; not required: an elective subject in college; elective surgery.

 

[head of joaquin]

no i am not for majority rule in all aspects of government becuase it is tyranny, and Madison states..

Thankfully that's not the only option.

But don't be coy. You really don't like democracy period, right?

 

[blaxshep]

Thankfully that's not the only option.

But don't be coy. You really don't like democracy period, right?

What we need is a majority of people dependent on the benevolence of the Nanny State determining what should be done with minority of other people's money right HOJ?

 

[iliveonramen]

Democracy has proven to be highly effective for starting any country, or nation. It provides citizens a notion of freedom, and a political voice. Unfortunately, a democracy is only beneficial as long as the population is educated in current events and all things politics. Without a educated society, there is no way a democracy can maintain its power. Right now Americas education is at an all time low. The same people that are not graduating high school are being trusted to make decisions that effects lives all around the world. Our democratic system simply is not complying with our current education. Does it ever bother you that the homeless man you just walked pas has the exact same say in the future of the government as you do? Studies show that over 50% of voters do not know how many amendments there are in the constitution. How can someone make an informed decision without knowing basic information?

There are options, of course, without turning our government into an all out dictatorship. For one, we can attempt to reshape our school systems. This would essentially take out two birds with one stone. By changing the schools we change the education rate, which is a major problem that needs solving. It also fixes the problem of our government's political system, because, again, democracy is completely ineffective with a uninformed society.

The other option is to add a test, of a sort, for all new voters. Meaning, the first time someone votes, they have to take a quiz about politics, maybe sprinkle in a little current events as well. If they pass then they can vote, if not then they will have to wait tell next year to take it again. That way, only the politically active members of society actually get to vote, while the others can do no harm to our government.

Only if it's questions like

"Were weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq"

"Was President Obama born in the US"

"Did Iraq participate in the terrorist attacks that took place on September 11th 2001"

 

[blaxshep]

Only if it's questions like

"Were weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq"

"Was President Obama born in the US"

"Did Iraq participate in the terrorist attacks that took place on September 11th 2001"

Yes
Yes
No

 

[Master PO]

Thankfully that's not the only option.

But don't be coy. You really don't like democracy period, right?

no i dont , not that i dont like the idea of the people governing themselves, ...it sounds like a wonderful idea, however in practice its a failure as history has shown.

what Madison is saying is, ..........if you give the people ALL of the power directly, they will misuse that power and turn it on their brother and become tyrannical against him.

that is why the founders created separated powers, the people are given some direct power, and the states are given some direct power...that is what republican government is, ...separation of powers.

this way, no one as all the power to become tyrannical.

 

[Euphoress]

The country is not trying doing something about our current governments situation. So if you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear them.

 

[samsmart]

democracy is the most vile form of government--james madsion

Democracy is the worst form of government...
...except for all the rest.

- Winston Churchill

 

[Master PO]

Democracy is the worst form of government...
...except for all the rest.

- Winston Churchill

worst is still bad, republican government of the founders, was really the first time real republican government was tried, based on the ideas of.. ancient Greek historian Polybius

 

[Grand Mal]

I don't think democracy can survive party politics. Maybe, it can't survive representational government.
The way it's evolved, you can't vote for someone to represent you- you vote for someone who represents a party and hopefully you can agree with most of the party's platform. If not, you have no representation and no reason to vote unless you like to think of yourself as a judge on a panel of a popularity contest.

 

[head of joaquin]

Yes
Yes
No

You've almost passed a test 60% of tea baggers can't. Congratulations. Still you missed #1 and so are excluded from voting.

 

[head of joaquin]

no i dont , not that i dont like the idea of the people governing themselves, ...it sounds like a wonderful idea, however in practice its a failure as history has shown..

BINGO! You have to love the arrogance and tomfoolery of conservatives.

If you want to tell people what to do, start your own country. I'm sure it will fail like all rightwing utopias (such as Nazi Germany) do.

Meanwhile, nobody is going to tell the majority of Americans how to run their country. Get used to it.

 

[babilfish]

Does it ever bother you that the homeless man you just walked pas has the exact same say in the future of the government as you do?

...No? I don't begrudge people who are having a rough go of it.

What sort of heartless monster would take away someone's dignity on account that they're going through hard times?

 

[Master PO]

BINGO! You have to love the arrogance and tomfoolery of conservatives.

If you want to tell people what to do, start your own country. I'm sure it will fail like all rightwing utopias (such as Nazi Germany) do.

Meanwhile, nobody is going to tell the majority of Americans how to run their country. Get used to it.

its not telling people what to do, it not giving people ALL of the power directly, but dividing power up, so that no one has all the power to come tyrannical........even "we the people" can become tyrannical against our brother...if we have all unlimited power to act at will.

have you ever asked the question, why did the founders create the electoral college, or why senators were appointed by the states legislators, instead of being directly elected by the people?

 

[Master PO]

BINGO! You have to love the arrogance and tomfoolery of conservatives.

If you want to tell people what to do, start your own country. I'm sure it will fail like all rightwing utopias (such as Nazi Germany) do.

Meanwhile, nobody is going to tell the majority of Americans how to run their country. Get used to it.

to make sure i have you correct, your saying the majority of the people , .............should be able to dictate?

 

[head of joaquin]

its not telling people what to do, it not giving people ALL of the power directly, but dividing power up, so that no one has all the power to come tyrannical........even "we the people" can become tyrannical against our brother...if we have all unlimited power to act at will.

have you ever asked the question, why did the founders create the electoral college, or why senators were appointed by the states legislators, instead of being directly elected by the people?

I love the euphemisms. The conservative view of government -- they decide how the majority of Americans should live their lives. No wonder conservatism is intellectually bankrupt.

Meanwhile, why should anybody trust a bunch of ignorant failed conservatives who live off their trust funds and exploited labor, with any decisions. Conservatives are clearly inept and can't run anything but internment camps at Gitmo.

 

[head of joaquin]

to make sure i have you correct, your saying the majority of the people , .............should be able to dictate?

Yep, a minority of people should not be able to dictate to the majority of Americans how to live their lives and run this country.

So let me get this straight -- you think elitist minorities (the rich) should tell the majority of Americans how to run the country?

 

[clownboy]

Yep, a minority of people should not be able to dictate to the majority of Americans how to live their lives and run this country.

So let me get this straight -- you think elitist minorities (the rich) should tell the majority of Americans how to run the country?

Are you really advocating for majority rule here?