Define assault weapon

[vegas giants]

God forbid youre wrong about how to do that.

It's a form. It's done all over the world. We are not reinventing the wheel here

 

[Aberration]

Personally, I think all guns should be banned and the 2a be repealed. And, I don't want to even argue the point because we'll never agree on it.

I think all people who think like you should be banned and for all your rights to be repealed. And, J don’t want to even argue the point because we’ll never agree.

If there were no guns, there would be no accidental gun deaths, there would be far fewer crimes committed with them, more people would be alive in a world without guns than one with them.

If there were no water people would not drown. If there were no fists, people would not be beat with fists.

I"ve heard that "if guns were illegal, then only criminals would have them", that only works because guns are available. If they weren't available, or were far more difficult to obtain, then the
truth is that only the most affluent and most determined criminals might have them, but far fewer would have them if they weren't available in America, and their import were highly monitored and controlled
with severe penalties. Banning guns would save lives. No, you can't ban cars, but you can ban guns. That argument doesn't wash, either.

Sorry, if you can refute that logic, try. And no, the fact that there are guns out there doesn't change the fact

Just because you ban them does not make them unavailable.

You can argue that "it won't happen in AMerica" that may be true, but it won't be true forever. America is growing more liberal each year, enlightened each year.

It will be true forever. Try and change it. You see America disappear. These rights came from the liberal enlightenment. What you believe is not liberal. It’s irrational.

That day will come, though I can't say when. Maybe not in my lifetime, but that day will come and any thing I can do to steer America in that direction, is an effort I will favor, and that is why I support banning assault weapons. You want to nitpick on their definition, I'll let someone more knowledgable do it, I'm no expert.

Better try a lot harder.

I'm all for freedom, but

Exactly. But. That one words contradicts the previous assertion.

QUOTE=OscarLevant;1070577546] not freedom that results in needless deaths, [/quote]

Bull****. Do you put the same effort to end all the many things that cause more deaths than guns? I wouldn’t believe you if you claimed it.

where it is possible to achieve it. You could argue "banning cigarettes would save lives", but that's a kind of prohibition, where replacing them on the black market by back alley manufacturers is a easier than the engineering and capital required to make guns, so that argument doesnt' wash, either.

I'd even support banning guns that look like assault weapons, though they technically might not be, just because they nuture a gun worshipping sickness in this country, though I understand that that argument would not hold up in court.

And I will work to throw water on the fire of that sickness, to the best of my ability.

*Yawn*

 

[Aberration]

It's a form. It's done all over the world. We are not reinventing the wheel here

And yet all over the world people still die from violence.

 

[vegas giants]

And yet all over the world people still die from violence.

Progress not perfection. Doing less is criminal

 

[Hondo]

If the 2nd Amendment was written about capital punishment, it would read, "A well-regulated penal system being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the prisoners to keep and bear natural lives, shall not be infringed."

The meaning is clear. No executions - period. To try to tamper with the spirit of the law by asking, "Well, what if we just restricted a prisoner's food?" is knowingly conspiring to murder. The 2nd Amendment was ratified December 15, 1791. A month prior, November 4th 1791, General Arthur St. Clair suffered a defeat at the hands of the Miami Confederacy of Great Lakes tribes in the Battle of the Wabash. He lost all but 24 out of 1,000 men. The first Special Congressional investigation in US history was launched. It was determined that lack of proper equipment played a large part in the defeat. An army needed to be raised to defeat the Native American tribes involved. That task was completed by March 1792, five months after the defeat. Two months later in May 1792, George Washington conscripted every able-bodied male between 18 and 45 into the militia with exceptions for government and postal transport workers.

According to the Militia Acts of 1792, every male must have provided on his own, a good rifle, musket, or firelock, a bayonet, at least 20 balls or 24 cartridges of ammo, powder horn, 1/4 pound of gunpowder, shot pouch, ammo box, flints, belt, knapsack, etc. Today, we'd call it a combat load. Given the concern the founding fathers had for government tyranny in the Federalist Papers and the events unfolding at the time the 2nd Amendment was ratified, it's clear that "arms" in 2A was a 1791 combat load.

Today, according to 10 US Code 249, every male citizen, and those with a declared intent to be a US citizen are members of the unorganized militia, while men and women in the National Guard are the organized militia.

The standard US infantry combat load today is an M4 assault rifle, 6 x 30 round magazines, optional sidearm, body armor, webgear, pack, etc.

The definition of "assault rifle" is really a rifle that was unconstitutionally banned by a law that needs to be repealed so "the people" no longer have the food of freedom restricted by tyrants.

 

[Aberration]

Progress not perfection. Doing less is criminal

Pretending to progress is criminal.

 

[Aberration]

Then simply link to it.

You want me to link to you not answering? [emoji849]

 

[haymarket]

You want me to link to you not answering? [emoji849]

I want you to link to the evidence requested that you said was already produced.

Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
An honest person would not pretend it not has not been.

So let us see it.

 

[vegas giants]

Pretending to progress is criminal.

Let's not pretend. Let's get real gun control

 

[pinqy]

Let's not pretend. Let's get real gun control

You say that, but I haven’t seen you suggest any changes or anything that isn’t already being done. So what would you change or add?

 

[vegas giants]

You say that, but I haven’t seen you suggest any changes or anything that isn’t already being done. So what would you change or add?

I have a great plan. Happy to stack it against yours if you have one

 

[Luther]

I have a great plan. Happy to stack it against yours if you have one

How will you get the millions of Assault weapons out of the hands of millions of Americans who want them? Who have them already

 

[vegas giants]

How will you get the millions of Assault weapons out of the hands of millions of Americans who want them? Who have them already

I dont. Gun bans are pointless.


Guns dont kill people.....bullets do

 

[Aberration]

I want you to link to the evidence requested that you said was already produced.

Is that what I said?

So let us see it.

You already have.

 

[Aberration]

Let's not pretend. Let's get real gun control

Pretending gun control is progress is criminal.

 

[vegas giants]

Pretending gun control is progress is criminal.

Then let's not pretend. Let's enact gun control

 

[haymarket]

Is that what I said?



You already have.

Name the post with a number or link.

 

[Old Sarge]

That's it. Simple. This is a thread for both gun nuts and gun haters to posit and work put exactly what an assault weapon is.

Full auto, semi auto, bolt action, flint lock? How many rounds per minute? Magazine capacity? Barrel length? Caliber?

Do you want the real def of an assault rifle or the liberal version?

 

[Aberration]

Name the post with a number or link.

1592. Get the link yourself.

 

[Aberration]

Then let's not pretend. Let's enact gun control

That would be pretending.

 

[vegas giants]

That would be pretending.

Flippitty bippitty?

 

[Hondo]

Regarding risk of being killed by a mass shooter. The USA has an official population of over 329 million people. Our annual tourist population is 78 million. Pew research suggests 11.4 million illegals reside in the USA. That gives us 418.4 million potential annual victims. A University of Pittsburgh study conducted by a professor in the Department of Epidemiology confirmed only 18% of gun homicides are committed by gun owners. Our latest 5 year average gun homicide rate is 9,733. 80% of gun homicides are gang/drug related. 1,752 gun homicides are gun owners. 7,786 are related to gang or drug crimes.

In the 1930's, the NRA was instrumental in getting machine guns out of the hands of the public due to all of the gangster violence during Prohibition. The violence ended not because of the gun ban, but because alcohol became legal and gangsters were killed or incarcerated. Those that got out of jail entered a world at war or a post-war America where the source of contention was no longer controlled by organized crime. When our gang members are returned to the streets, drugs are illegal and controlled by cartels, gangs, and dealers. Would legalizing drugs lead to reduced gang violence more effectively than even a firearms ban? After all, they get illegal drugs and possess illegal weapons.

Of the 1,752 homicides committed by firearms owners most are domestic violence. My best friend from college, Dr. Bonnie Delgado Black, was murdered by her estranged husband in 2015. The media portrayed Bonnie as a mere victim. What was secretive at the time and not reported, was that Bonnie had officially been the Chief Behavioral Analyst of the Directorate of Counter-Intelligence and Field Activity at the Department of Defense. Unofficially, I know she was trained in firearms, self-defense, spy craft, and that she operated overseas before the CIFA was disbanded and she went to the FBI. Bonnie was murdered in her bed, possibly asleep, stabbed and nearly decapitated where her 3 and 5 year-old children found her. Had she been awake, or had she had a firearm close by, her training may have allowed her to be one of the 2.5 million lives saved every year by firearms. There is no media agenda thus far on knives, so she wasn't murdered by an "assault knife," "hand knife," "military grade weapon," "assault weapon," or whatever term the media and politicians would use. Her estranged husband violated a restraining order and took the life of a girl that was beyond special. Beautiful, tall, athletic, super smart, kind, and never one to gossip or belittle others. We had romantic history and she was the last person I ever thought would be murdered. My memories will always be of a wonderful girl who lit up my college years by being the best of us. "Us" being the entire student body. "Us" being everyone I ever met. Guns are the most popular murder weapon because we have the tools. Murders would still happen in domestic disputes with knives, nail guns, baseball bats, etc.

That leaves the "assault weapons." 3% of all gun homicides are committed with rifles. 3% with shotguns. Of the homicides committed with rifles the average mass shooting fatalities were 22 every year until the Las Vegas shooter. Now, he's the one to try to beat so mass shooters are trying to kill more and more people. During the 1960's our country was politically and racially divided and we also saw a spike in gun deaths - JFK, Bobby, MLK, the U of Texas tower sniper, the Kent shooting in 1970 by National Guard troops. Today, we are once again divided, tempers are flaring politically and we have increased mass shootings while other forms of crime are down. 1% of gun homicides are mass shootings meaning less than 100 people. In a country with 418.4 million people, your risk of being killed in a mass shooting event is 1 in 4.2 million annually, 1 in 52,300 lifetime. Compared to auto fatalities, the 5 year average is 36,000 or 1 in 9,138 annually or 1 in 114 lifetime. That means if you stand at the Vietnam Memorial looking at all of the names 1 name on that wall would be killed by a mass shooter with an AR15 or AK47. Go into a mall and 1 in those hundred or so will be killed in a car accident. Do you think we'd save over 100 lives each year by reducing speeds on highways down to 55 mph like in the 70's? Why aren't we talking about that? Because everyone wants to get where they are going faster, liberals included.

300 people die in ladder falls, 300 people die by electrocution, 42 on skateboards, over 800 on bicycles, 100 are killed by trees in the USA each year. 100 Germans die by autoerotic masturbatory practices every year. And, the media says other countries are laughing at us?

 

[Hondo]

Then let's not pretend. Let's enact gun control

How is gun control working? Canada's population is less than the official population of the state of California even when adding illegals living in Canada and tourists. The US media loves to compare us to Canada's low gun homicide rate of 245 each year with 38 rifle homicides. There are 2 million licensed gun owners in Canada. They must take a course, be trained, pass a test, register their guns, and be automatically background checked daily with weapons confiscation if flagged. The population of Canada is 37.4 million in a country with the same land mass as the USA. California has 39.5 million legal residents in comparison. Assuming gun ownership leads to guns being stolen and used in crimes and gun owners can become murderers as well, if we compare the number of homicide incidents per gun owner, that would also account for the illegal guns. 2 million Canadian gun owners responsible for 245 homicides = .00012 incidents per owner.

In the USA, we have 329 million legal residents, 11.4 million illegals, and 78 million tourists annually. We have 12.6 million active hunters alone. That's 3.8% of the population who actively hunt. I've seen some statistics claiming only 3% of the population owns 320 million guns. I think they are using the active hunting license % to arrive at that claim. 5.5% of Canadians own guns and we have far more gun owners. Who has no skin in the political game? People trying to sell sporting goods. Independent market survey companies place the number of gun owners at a low estimate of 34% to 39% to a high of 50%. Let's take the low of 34%. 112 million American gun owners responsible for 9,733 gun homicides = .000086 incidents per gun owner.

Canadian gun owners are responsible for 39.5% more incidents of homicide than American gun owners despite their "rigorous" gun control. I watched a Vice Channel presentation on YouTube where a female journalist went through the training and licensing procedure. She didn't fail the course when she looked down the barrel. My dad, a US marine, would have killed me himself. AR15's are legal in Canada by going through additional training and more rigorous background checks. Their 38 rifle deaths vs. our 316: 38 out of 2 million gun owners = .000019. 316 out of 112 million gun owners = .0000028 incidents per gun owner.

We have less than 100 mass shooting fatalities. 1 out of 4 million people annually, 1 out of 52,300 lifetime. Basically 1 name on the Vietnam Memorial would be killed in a mass shooting in his lifetime. Surfers in the USA have a 1 in 28,000 lifetime chance of shark attack. 1 in 4000 people die in motor vehicle and ATV accidents annually, 1 in 50 lifetime. 800 people die on bicycles, 300 die falling off ladders, 300 are electrocuted, 42 die on skateboards.

In Canada, you may be disqualified to own a gun if you've experienced a break up or have filed for divorce within two years. I'm 51 and I would go through flight attendant girlfriends like zombies in a video game until I turned 40.

Rather than talk about banning guns, why don't we talk about bringing back mandatory active duty, reserve or National Guard service for young men? It might help provide so many fatherless boys a place to find a leader to emulate. The strongest women in America are the single black mothers working two or three jobs and doing everything they can to be a role model to their sons, yet so many young black men are in crisis. Being in the military would provide additional mental health evaluation opportunities. They'd learn to be part of a team, to put others first, and build some character. I've trained many military divers who believed they would have been in trouble had they not joined the military.

Switzerland has almost no gun crime, mandatory service, and if you want to kill yourself, it's legal. Doctors will help you do it. You can take a Nembutal rather than a bullet. We have a gun suicide problem because we don't have a nice bye-bye pill. One sheriff who's cleaned up decades worth of suicides believes that we should make suicide legal. His belief is that more people would be helped, if seeking to get approved to die in a painless way, by a mental health expert. If we have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we should have the liberty to seek happiness in death. For those who choose life and liberty, knowing that the 2nd Amendment protects those rights makes them happy. Our gun culture is actually more responsible and less violent than our kindly well-meaning neighbors to the north.

 

[vegas giants]

How is gun control working? Canada's population is less than the official population of the state of California even when adding illegals living in Canada and tourists. The US media loves to compare us to Canada's low gun homicide rate of 245 each year with 38 rifle homicides. There are 2 million licensed gun owners in Canada. They must take a course, be trained, pass a test, register their guns, and be automatically background checked daily with weapons confiscation if flagged. The population of Canada is 37.4 million in a country with the same land mass as the USA. California has 39.5 million legal residents in comparison. Assuming gun ownership leads to guns being stolen and used in crimes and gun owners can become murderers as well, if we compare the number of homicide incidents per gun owner, that would also account for the illegal guns. 2 million Canadian gun owners responsible for 245 homicides = .00012 incidents per owner. In the USA, we have 12.6 million active hunters alone. That's 3.8% of the population who actively hunt. I've seen some statistics claiming only 3% of the population owns 320 million guns. I think they are using the active hunting license % to arrive at that claim. 5.5% of Canadians own guns and we have far more gun owners. Who has no skin in the political game? People trying to sell sporting goods. Independent market survey companies place the number of gun owners at a low estimate of 34% to 39% to a high of 50%. Let's take the low of 34%. 112 million American gun owners responsible for 9,733 gun homicides = .000086 incidents per gun owner.

Canadian gun owners are responsible for 39.5% more incidents of homicide than American gun owners despite their "rigorous" gun control. I watched a Vice Channel presentation on YouTube where a female journalist went through the training and licensing procedure. She didn't fail the course when she looked down the barrel. My dad, a US marine, would have killed me himself. AR15's are legal in Canada by going through additional training and more rigorous background checks. In Canada, you may be disqualified to own a gun if you've experienced a break up or have filed for divorce within two years. I'm 51 and I would go through flight attendant girlfriends like zombies in a video game until I turned 40.

Rather than talk about banning guns, why don't we talk about bringing back mandatory active duty, reserve or National Guard service for young men? It might help provide so many fatherless boys a place to find a leader to emulate. The strongest women in America are the single black mothers working two or three jobs and doing everything they can to be a role model to their sons, yet so many young black men are in crisis. Being in the military would provide additional mental health evaluation opportunities. They'd learn to be part of a team, to put others first, and build some character. I've trained many military divers who believed they would have been in trouble had they not joined the military.

Switzerland has almost no gun crime, mandatory service, and if you want to kill yourself, it's legal. Doctors will help you do it. You can take a Nembutal rather than a bullet. We have a gun suicide problem because we don't have a nice bye-bye pill. One sheriff who's cleaned up decades worth of suicides believes that we should make suicide legal. His belief is that more people would be helped, if seeking to get approved to die in a painless way, by a mental health expert. If we have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we should have the liberty to seek happiness in death. For those who choose life and liberty, knowing that the 2nd Amendment protects those rights makes them happy. Our gun culture is actually more responsible and less violent than our kindly well-meaning neighbors to the north.

I see no evidence for anything you are saying.


Take Switzerland. They have very very strict gun control. You would hate it there

 

[Hondo]

I see no evidence for anything you are saying.


Take Switzerland. They have very very strict gun control. You would hate it there

My job is to analyze scuba diving accidents and cave diving accidents as a consultant with the International Diving Safety Standards Commission. With all of the talk about guns these past months, I looked at gun homicides. I made a post about these findings prior to quoting you, but it said the moderators have to approve it for some reason. Look at the population of the USA and Canada. Look at the number of illegals in both countries. Look at the number of tourists in both countries. Look at registered Canadian gun owners. Look at market research for USA gun ownership. Look at the 5 year average homicide rate involving firearms in both countries. Do the math.