• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Decriminalize Sex

Are we ready to allow sex for hire to be decriminalized and create a federal regulator commission?


  • Total voters
    37
In 2023: GRETA publishes report expressing concerns about the Netherlands’ lowest conviction rates of trafficking in a five-year span. Isn't that the point.
You answered your own question, in the bolded part.
To stop convicting women.
Anyone who is a sex trafficker, male or female, absolutely should be convicted.
Decriminalizing prostitution lowers crime rates.
Yes, if governments make it legal to take advantage of vulnerable people, then it will mechanically lower the crime rate. That doesn't make it good.
 
You answered your own question, in the bolded part.
It is clear women will benefit when laws used against them are relaxed based on social change.
Anyone who is a sex trafficker, male or female, absolutely should be convicted.
Anyone? Jeffrey Epstein, President Donald Trump's best friend was trafficking girls out of Trump's Club. Trump continues paving the way to a pardon for Ghislaine the co-conspirator in the most famous Sex Trafficking Case in the USA. We will not stop even if it means going all the way the the White-house to expose the Truth.
Yes, if governments make it legal to take advantage of vulnerable people, then it will mechanically lower the crime rate. That doesn't make it good.
Women have been the most venerable victims of religion for thousand of years and have suffered both physically and mentally due to being subjugated by men in power passing un-just legislation to control human behavior. The only thing illegal is the use of money that changes hands between two consenting adults. It looks like you are not interested in freedom of choice of a woman to be compensated for a professional service that gives men pleasure. The men actually see the value of having a date without all the pretenses of dinner and a movie before sex. Prostitution cuts through the BS. IN and Out. Wam-Bam Thank you Ma'am !
Look at the results of the poll...
 
Why is it any different from providing a service and charging for it like any other business in that he or she cannot apply for a business license? (if it was legalized.)
Because it’s consensual sex between adults. The government can’t regulate it what so ever.
 
Because it’s consensual sex between adults. The government can’t regulate it what so ever.
The government banned solicitation of sex for hire. Therefore it is being regulated. And this is illegal with statutory crime. Which punishes anyone who violates the law. And why is the question does the need to ban and criminalize the use of money or gifts for sexual intercourse, has long been debated. The big question is when will the government wake up and stop the insanity of expecting people to be subjugated.
 
21trumpmaxwell-sub-videoSixteenByNine3000.webp
Donald Trump with his Sex Model Wife and the Sex Trafficking Couple Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell
 
Last edited:
Because it’s consensual sex between adults. The government can’t regulate it what so ever.

That's a repeat of the statement. You'll have to source that. And how it's considered differently, as a business, than any other consensual business decision between the 2 parties.

If it's legal, the choice of the prostitute charging for sex and going into business providing sex as a service (with a license like other businesses) are 2 different things. In the first case, yup, all she has to do is declare her income for tax purposes. Regarding being in licensed business providing that service...you'll have to provide some kind of statute or laws that would prove your statement that sex would be treated differently than other services.
 
Didnt say that. Dont make stuff up, then you wont have to misdiagnose "strawmen."



I addressed this already ⬇️. No point in repeating it. You certainly are not refuting it.


--and--




If there is a legal "pimping" :rolleyes: system that comes of it...women arent forced into joining it and are much more protected if they do. They'd be reduced to managerial and administrative roles. So your repeated statement still makes no sense. No one denies sex workers can be harmed or exploited. So can people in other industries. But since we ...you are a good example...seem to see sex as some moral or special 'bugaboo'...it's less visible and acceptable to expose and fight. What do you think OSHA is for? Why it was created? Remember the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? Why wouldnt OSHA apply as appropriate to escort services that can legally provide sex? You see "exceptions" due to it being sex everywhere. That's part of the problem. Are there abuses and would there be abuses? Sure...just like in any industry. See: Harvey Weinstein. But with it being legal...it would reduce risks depending on the choices the women made.

Re: your studies. What about the studies on the psychological toll taken on first responders, cops, EMTs, ER docs, firefighters? Terrible trauma and PTSD, high suicide rates, high divorce rates, high injury rates, crazy high cancer rates for firefighters. But it's their choice. But hey, society finds that a lot more noble than $$ for sex, right? It's still hypocritical.
You are arguing things I never claimed and don’t believe.

Sex workers are often extremely vulnerable and very easily exploited. You seem to think that creating a billion dollar industry employing them will result in less exploitation for them. In what other industry where the employees are predominantly vulnerable and easily exploited, did making it a big legal business result in less exploitation? Did legalization of share cropping result in less exploitation? What about for stripping? Does fining them for calling in sick result in less exploitation?

Moreover, we tried this social experiment in Nevada, it resulted in the worst exploitation and sex trafficking in the country. https://www.awakenjustice.org/heres...ampaignheres-why-nevada-is-not-safe-for-women


You see what I am saying, we need to only look at states and countries that have legalized rather than just decriminalized prostitution to see real world results that match up with exactly what I have been arguing.
 
Your rant doesn't change the fact that sex work is a business transaction and legalization and regulation is the best means to protect its "workers."
We tried it in Nevada, it has resulted in even more exploitation of sex workers.

 
If prostitution is so bad how come millions of women are do it?
 
You are arguing things I never claimed and don’t believe.

Sex workers are often extremely vulnerable and very easily exploited. You seem to think that creating a billion dollar industry employing them will result in less exploitation for them. In what other industry where the employees are predominantly vulnerable and easily exploited, did making it a big legal business result in less exploitation? Did legalization of share cropping result in less exploitation? What about for stripping? Does fining them for calling in sick result in less exploitation?

Moreover, we tried this social experiment in Nevada, it resulted in the worst exploitation and sex trafficking in the country. https://www.awakenjustice.org/heres...ampaignheres-why-nevada-is-not-safe-for-women


You see what I am saying, we need to only look at states and countries that have legalized rather than just decriminalized prostitution to see real world results that match up with exactly what I have been arguing.

You are repeating yourself and I have refuted all of those things. Exploitation occurs all the time in many jobs...you acknowledge this. People make choices. I've posted that people are responsible for their own choices and consequences. Too bad you dont respect people enough to acknowledge this. Society is not tasked with protecting people from all their choices in life.

And it's only the "worst" TRANSPARENT exploitation because it can be addressed and examined directly. :rolleyes: This is also something that can be remedied by better oversight and access...by legitimizing instead of selectively and puritanically moralizing over sex for sale and thus reducing prostitutes shame and reticence at demanding better treatment and knowing they'll be supported if they do...just like other workers. People's feelings and judgements shouldnt affect other people's choices that arent harming others.
 
If prostitution is so bad how come millions of women are do it?
Some because they have been trafficked and are basically sex slaves.
Some because they desperately need money, or because they are drug addicts, homeless, or have other personal problems.
Some because a lifetime of abuse has convinced them that they aren't worth any more than that.

No self-respecting man should take advantage of vulnerable women.
 
Some because they have been trafficked and are basically sex slaves.
Some because they desperately need money, or because they are drug addicts, homeless, or have other personal problems.
Some because a lifetime of abuse has convinced them that they aren't worth any more than that.

No self-respecting man should take advantage of vulnerable women.
Are You Married ?
 
Society is not tasked with protecting people from all their choices in life.

Agreed, therefore you should support repealing seatbelt laws, drug laws, suicide assistance bans, minimum wage laws, raw milk bans, gambling restrictions, and a million other mommy-state laws which protect consenting adults from make their own choices in life.
 
The part where someone has sex with a desperate person in exchange for money.


I just find it baffling that anyone can suggest with a straight face that a prostitute has more power with her customer, than a secretary does with her boss.


Let's go through both possibilities.

Let's say it was part of the job description for my secretary to blow me, and she joined my company knowing that. Should that be legal?

And then let's say it wasn't part of the job description, but I want to add it now, as a new job duty. (She can always quit if she doesn't like it, of course.) Should that be legal?


Actually yes he can, for both of those. It might be "inappropriate" depending on the job, but it's not illegal to ask your secretary to do those things. If the secretary doesn't like the job they can quit. Sexual harassment, on the other hand, is qualitatively different from those things and is illegal, because we rightly recognize that people should not have to do those degrading things as a condition to get their paycheck.
Can a boss legally add the job duty of "you must bow before me and kiss my feet at work every day and every hour come into my office and show me your underwear or you're fired" without facing a lawsuit?

Every one of those things I stated are legal and you can pay someone to do, if agreed to ahead of time. You can legally pay someone to bow before you. You can legally pay someone to kiss your feet. You can legally pay someone to show you their underwear. You cannot add any of those things to a person's work contract or have them fired without facing a lawsuit.
 
We tried it in Nevada, it has resulted in even more exploitation of sex workers.

From the link: In 2005, another study on 11 European Union countries, requested by the European Parliament’s Committee on Women’s Rights and Gender Equality, found that stricter prostitution laws seem to produce fewer human trafficking victim. In order to abolish sex trafficking, we must eliminate the demand for prostitution. The demand elimination strategy is the only way to put pimps and traffickers out of business and protect the rights of women and children to attain a life free from exploitation. Quoted from Awaken

Awaken?

Awaken is a faith-based non-profit organization whose mission is to increase awareness and education surrounding the issue of commercial sexual exploitation and to provide housing and restoration for its victims.

Tell me this is not biased conservatism using religion as a club to beat God into the minds of the ones who lack belief in the sublime. First off there is no LAW that uses God to be used as a Weapon. Your soul is yours. God gave man free-will. The right to choose to follow or refuse to be subjugated by the church. The Church: fact responsible for death of millions of indigenous human species of the New World. Reason, to force Christianity upon the natives. Lets take religion and put it where it belongs....in another discussion. This debate is focused on taking the chain off women and release them from the Criminal Justice System of Laws designed to legislate human behavior. Set them free !

Part II

PIMPS ! a man who controls prostitutes and arranges clients for them, taking part of their earnings in return. Can you say " Capitalism". America was founded on capitalism. So the alternative is a what? Make capitalism illegal. ( yeah like that would solve sex trafficking )

Pimps are already considered to be the number one reason of exploitation.
 
Last edited:
Can a boss legally add the job duty of "you must bow before me and kiss my feet at work every day and every hour come into my office and show me your underwear or you're fired" without facing a lawsuit?
No.
You cannot add any of those things to a person's work contract or have them fired without facing a lawsuit.
Correct. And for good reason. Telling a secretary "The new policy is for you to show me your underwear or you're fired" is fundamentally different from telling a secretary "The new policy is to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports or you're fired." Because we all recognize that degrading or sexual conduct is NOT just like any other job function, and needs to be heavily regulated.

And therefore we should apply this same logic to prostitution, where the entire job is to be degraded and sexually harassed. That should not be allowed.
 
No.

Correct. And for good reason. Telling a secretary "The new policy is for you to show me your underwear or you're fired" is fundamentally different from telling a secretary "The new policy is to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports or you're fired." Because we all recognize that degrading or sexual conduct is NOT just like any other job function, and needs to be heavily regulated.

And therefore we should apply this same logic to prostitution, where the entire job is to be degraded and sexually harassed. That should not be allowed.
The job function usually is defined in a contract by the employer. An employee has to agree with the job requirements to be gainfully employed. So in certain cases ie: an acting career may require a female to submit to performing a sex act for money where is it questionable to have her physically and mentally abused. I call it consensual rape. the victim knowingly allows herself to used and tortured. Porn and Prostitution seem to go hand in hand. And yes it a crime to victimize an employee using duress and coerced into the act by the promise of a reward.
 
No.

Correct. And for good reason. Telling a secretary "The new policy is for you to show me your underwear or you're fired" is fundamentally different from telling a secretary "The new policy is to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports or you're fired." Because we all recognize that degrading or sexual conduct is NOT just like any other job function, and needs to be heavily regulated.

And therefore we should apply this same logic to prostitution, where the entire job is to be degraded and sexually harassed. That should not be allowed.
This is why your continued attempt to compare legalization of sex work to a boss trying to make sex work a part of the job description is wrong.

I've already pointed out that it is legal to pay for each of those things. But even something considered not degrading, beneath certain job descriptions, but still a completely legal job in the company, such as unclogging or cleaning a toilet or cleaning up puke, giving shots, serving alcohol can be sued about if added to a job description that didn't originally have it, a position that is higher up. We pay janitors, nurses, doctors, bartenders to do those things.

You can hire an underwear model for you though. How do you think people get their underwear into ads otherwise? Why should that be illegal?

Is being a server or bartender also something that should be made illegal? What about a fashion model? Yet if you required your employee to serve drinks at your party in lingerie or even just designer clothes that made them uncomfortable that too would be something they could sue you for. Even just demanding that your secretary watch your kids could be a lawsuit from the secretary. So do you think babysitters or nannies should go away? Probably not.

This is part of showing why your comparison doesn't work. These jobs exist, legally, and in many cases necessarily, that some may consider degrading or sexual harassment when it comes to having a different job.
 
This is why your continued attempt to compare legalization of sex work to a boss trying to make sex work a part of the job description is wrong.

I've already pointed out that it is legal to pay for each of those things. But even something considered not degrading, beneath certain job descriptions, but still a completely legal job in the company, such as unclogging or cleaning a toilet or cleaning up puke, giving shots, serving alcohol can be sued about if added to a job description that didn't originally have it, a position that is higher up. We pay janitors, nurses, doctors, bartenders to do those things.

Is being a server or bartender also something that should be made illegal? What about a fashion model? Yet if you required your employee to serve drinks at your party in lingerie or even just designer clothes that made them uncomfortable that too would be something they could sue you for. Even just demanding that your secretary watch your kids could be a lawsuit from the secretary. So do you think babysitters or nannies should go away? Probably not.

This is part of showing why your comparison doesn't work. These jobs exist, legally, and in many cases necessarily, that some may consider degrading or sexual harassment when it comes to having a different job.
Women have been forced to submit to things involving sex just to earn a paycheck.
 
Women have been forced to submit to things involving sex just to earn a paycheck.
Yes. But not all are forced.

And men are many times required to submit to things they don't want to do to earn a paycheck, including some involving sex or sexualization at the least.

No one should be forced to have sex for a paycheck. But some people will in fact choose to have sex for a paycheck. Not everyone sees sex, especially when they choose to have it, have control over the situation as to whether they have it or not, as degrading or immoral or bad for them. Those people should be able to get paid if people are willing to pay them.

People are missing the point that we are discussing the difference between forced and choosing. Is it forced for men or women to be strippers?
 
I've already pointed out that it is legal to pay for each of those things.
The bowing thing is fine, a little weird, but whatever.
Kissing your boss's feet is degrading and should be illegal, unless there's some job where it actually serves some legitimate business purpose (e.g. you're an actor in a film or something).
Showing your boss your underwear is degrading and sexual harassment and should be illegal, unless it serves some legitimate business purpose (e.g. you're a Victoria Secret model).

There is no legitimate business purpose for having sex with an employee. "The boss was horny" isn't a good enough reason.

But even something considered not degrading, beneath certain job descriptions, but still a completely legal job in the company, such as unclogging or cleaning a toilet or cleaning up puke, giving shots, serving alcohol can be sued about if added to a job description that didn't originally have it, a position that is higher up. We pay janitors, nurses, doctors, bartenders to do those things.
Generally it would be legal to add cleaning a toilet and cleaning up puke to someone's job description, assuming they're an at-will employee and you actually needed the toilets cleaned. The exception would be if you're deliberately doing it as retaliation or to try to get them to quit, or otherwise trying to sneakily avoid civil rights laws.

You can hire an underwear model for you though. How do you think people get their underwear into ads otherwise? Why should that be illegal?
I don't think being a Victoria Secret model should be illegal. Although one can certainly question the ethics of how models are treated, I don't think it rises to the level of needing to be illegal. And the key distinction here is that it's a job that at least serves a legitimate purpose (i.e. to sell more underwear through the ads).
Again, a prostitute blowing someone has no legitimate business purpose and is 1000x more degrading.

Is being a server or bartender also something that should be made illegal? What about a fashion model?
No.
Yet if you required your employee to serve drinks at your party in lingerie or even just designer clothes that made them uncomfortable that too would be something they could sue you for.
Yep, requiring employees to do degrading and/or sexual things should be banned, I agree.

Even just demanding that your secretary watch your kids could be a lawsuit from the secretary.
Unlikely. Again, unless it was done as retaliation or to try to get them to quit or to sneakily avoid civil rights laws.

This is part of showing why your comparison doesn't work. These jobs exist, legally, and in many cases necessarily, that some may consider degrading or sexual harassment when it comes to having a different job.
The key part is in bold.
Some may consider being a Victoria Secret model to be degrading, but much less so than being a prostitute.
And the Victoria Secret model at least has a clear connection to a necessary business purpose (i.e. selling underwear), whereas the prostitute does not. There's no reason any legitimate business or boss needs to have a prostitute on staff.
 
Yes. But not all are forced.

And men are many times required to submit to things they don't want to do to earn a paycheck, including some involving sex or sexualization at the least.

No one should be forced to have sex for a paycheck. But some people will in fact choose to have sex for a paycheck. Not everyone sees sex, especially when they choose to have it, have control over the situation as to whether they have it or not, as degrading or immoral or bad for them. Those people should be able to get paid if people are willing to pay them.

People are missing the point that we are discussing the difference between forced and choosing. Is it forced for men or women to be strippers?
The use of force

Pimps will often use force to get what they want. I have know a few victims over the years. Some pimps keep them strung out on opioids as well as other psychologically addicting drugs like Meth or Crack. This is a bad as them beating them with their fist. It is the worst of human behavior. And to a lesser degree there are men like President Donald J Trump who use a different kind of force on Women called Lawsuits. PornStar Stormy Daniels Vs Donald J Trump. What is the difference when the pimp or the john is a misogynist. This kind of exploitation rarely gets the attention it needs. I am glad some people recognize that the exploitation of women goes all the way from the streets a Las Vegas to the White-house.

Sound ugly because it is. I was hoping to find a remedy other than punishing the prostitute. Something more along they line of stricter prison sentences for Pimps be it a Hood Rat or the current President who has sexually abused women, E Jean Carroll according to US Civil Lawsuit in New York State.
 
Back
Top Bottom