Declaration of Independence is Law, it is U.S. Code[W:118]

[Master PO]

No not in thread you havent, but you have said it before. Its part of that rant you have about how States rights and Federal power is limited. You know the whole neo-Confederate argument that youve spent countless posts trying to make stick but you never can succeed.

And no I am not discussing anything that bars talking about how things are today. Time marches on things progress over time.

STATES DONT HAVE RIGHTS [i never use state rights].......so you must be talking about someone else.......states have powers, federal power is limited by the constitution, because it not a national government its a federal government which shares powers with states.

and we were talking about the past,, if you want to talk about modern day then you need to say that before.

if you want to talk about the 13th fine i have no problem, state any question on it you like.

 

[Master PO]

I have repeatedly used my ability to debate but you have either ignored engaging me in it or replied with emoticons that are devoid of any intellectual content.

I ask you again - for the sake of argument - if your argument that the Declaration is law is valid - what significance does have when applied to the American people living in the current USA?

already explained....

 

[Master PO]

I think my favorite part of the thread is ernie declaring Thomas Jefferson "got it wrong" when he penned the Declaration of Independence, and so too did the people who chiseled in ten foot marble letters on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial.

That's some funny **** there, man.

false, i did not say jefferson had it wrong.........jefferson did not build the jefferson memorial.....the words on the monument ........it was built in 1943, was Jefferson alive?

you trying to be deceptive .........is terrible....no wonder you cannot make a case here

 

[Paperview]

false, i did not say jefferson had it wrong.........jefferson did not build the jefferson memorial.....the words on the monument ........it was built in 1943, was Jefferson alive?

you trying to be deceptive .........is terrible....no wonder you cannot make a case here

What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI?





Yes, bub, that one.

 

[Avid]

STATES DONT HAVE RIGHTS [i never use state rights]...

...states have powers, federal power is limited by the constitution, because it not a national government its a federal government which shares powers with states...

This is true, and a very good point to make in clearing up the questions around what the Federal Government is limited in doing, and what the state government is limited in doing.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

An example of the Tenth Amendment in exercise would be YOU deciding which shirt to wear to the barbeque. The Federal Government was not given that power to tell you which shirt to wear, and the state does not care which shirt you wear, so that is a power reserved to you (the people.) A weak example, but one that shows the intent of that Amendment.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

STATES DONT HAVE RIGHTS [i never use state rights].......so you must be talking about someone else.......states have powers, federal power is limited by the constitution, because it not a national government its a federal government which shares powers with states.

It is good of you to admit that a State has not right to secede from the Union.

and we were talking about the past,, if you want to talk about modern day then you need to say that before.

Correction, you are stuck in the past while everyone else here isnt.

if you want to talk about the 13th fine i have no problem, state any question on it you like.

Do you agree that the 13th is legally in the Constitution?

 

[haymarket]

already explained....

in which specific post do you claim to have done this? And why can't you simply state it right here?

 

[Removable Mind]

JAMES MADSION WROTE THE BILL OF RIGHTS...AND HE IS THE FATHER OF THE CONSTITUTION.

guy you really put your foot into it now!

here is the bill of rights preamble, which states that the bill of rights are declaratory and restrictive clauses places squarely on the u.s. federal government.

that the federal government shall make no laws which violate the rights mentioned,/recognized in the constitution.



The U.S. Bill of Rights

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its [federal] powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

No rights are granted to the people by the constitution..... powers are granted to the federal government as stated in article 1 section 1, that is all....the constitution is about federalism, the separation of powers and restrictions placed on the federal government.

Well, now you've put your foot in it. Neither Jame Madison or Jefferson authored anything that wasn't substantially derived from some other persons or sources. They were major contributors penning the Constitution and DOI respectively...but man, EB...you're ignorance about how our Constitution and DOI came into being - along with some magical thinking that natural law was and is the true foundation is beyond the lowest levels of knowledge regarding the civil framework our system of government, but more especially "rights".

While drafting the Bill of Rights, James Madison drew heavily on the Virginia Declaration of Rights, written by George Mason and ratified shortly before the Constitution of Virginia in June 1776. Considered the first constitutional protection of individual rights, it also provided a blueprint for the U.S. Declaration of Independence and France’s Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.

Ever hear of John Locke or the Magna Carta? EB...there were many great philosophers who came way before our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights who were major influences on the principles that have become the frameworks for our nation's form of government and laws. There were many historical documents that were drawn from by the framers of our nation.

You've come back a hundred times with more nonsensical beliefs - which are virtually scary.

The human imagination is the closest thing to natural law. Natural law is metaphysics at its best. We always have and always will be a nation rule by "Common Law", which I now have to assume that you don't understand that concept.

 

[rhinefire]

The Declaration of Independence is a fraud like our constitution with a Bill of Whites Rights. What are the protections for all Americans compared to whites in any of these docs? We may have broken from England but now we are owned by China.

 

[haymarket]

Well, now you've put your foot in it. Neither Jame Madison or Jefferson authored anything that wasn't substantially derived from some other persons or sources. They were major contributors penning the Constitution and DOI respectively...but man, EB...you're ignorance about how our Constitution and DOI came into being - along with some magical thinking that natural law was and is the true foundation is beyond the lowest levels of knowledge regarding the civil framework our system of government, but more especially "rights".

A very astute observation. The OP writer seems to want badly to believe that the Dec is law and has effect today. Not only is that not true, but it was pretty much forgotten once it had served its sole purpose of announcing our separation from Great Britain in 1776.

Much has been written about this and the best comes from Pauliene Maier in her excellent book AMERICAN SCRIPTURE. Here is a mention of it

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Legacy
Having served its original purpose in announcing the independence of the United States, the Declaration was initially neglected in the years immediately following the American Revolution.[133] Early celebrations of Independence Day, like early histories of the Revolution, largely ignored the Declaration. Although the act of declaring independence was considered important, the text announcing that act attracted little attention.[134] The Declaration was rarely mentioned during the debates about the United States Constitution, and its language was not incorporated into that document.[135] George Mason's draft of the Virginia Declaration of Rights was more influential, and its language was echoed in state constitutions and state bills of rights more often than Jefferson's words.[136] "In none of these documents", wrote Pauline Maier, "is there any evidence whatsoever that the Declaration of Independence lived in men's minds as a classic statement of American political principles."[137]

For a document that some dishonestly want to foist upon us a the law of the land - it played no such role in the time it was written nor in the years right after it was written. It served its purpose and was placed on the shelf as no longer relevant having done the sole job it was crafted to do.

Maier further points out that the Dec was only resurrected for narrow partisan purposes - which seems to also be the impetus behind the OP and its writer.

Revival of interest
In the United States, interest in the Declaration was revived in the 1790s with the emergence of America's first political parties.[148] Throughout the 1780s, few Americans knew, or cared, who wrote the Declaration.[149] But in the next decade, Jeffersonian Republicans sought political advantage over their rival Federalists by promoting both the importance of the Declaration and Jefferson as its author.[150] Federalists responded by casting doubt on Jefferson's authorship or originality, and by emphasizing that independence was declared by the whole Congress, with Jefferson as just one member of the drafting committee. Federalists insisted that Congress's act of declaring independence, in which Federalist John Adams had played a major role, was more important than the document announcing that act.[151] But this view, like the Federalist Party, would fade away, and before long the act of declaring independence would become synonymous with the document.

So it is clear: The Declaration was a very narrow document which announced the separation of the USA from Britain - a birth announcement if you will and was not at all considered anything beyond that limited purpose.

People on the right seem to constantly want to talk about original intent and want the world to consider what something meant at the time it was written but why oh why does this advocate from the far right want us to IGNORE the purpose of the Declaration and the role it played at the time it played it which is directly opposite from his apparent political agenda today.

Maybe he he was more honest and forthcoming in telling us WHY his argument means anything today to AMericans and its application in 2015 in law - he might better explain himself and his motivations.

 

[Master PO]

What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI?





Yes, bub, that one.

unalienable.....monuments made by people in 1943 at not the document in the national actives...


The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

 

[Master PO]

It is good of you to admit that a State has not right to secede from the Union.

Correction, you are stuck in the past while everyone else here isnt.

Do you agree that the 13th is legally in the Constitution?

states don't secede, PEOPLE chose to secede, and that is what happen, out of the southern states all of them except 1 held a state convention, to chose to stay or leave the union, the people choose to leave, ..Tenn held a referendum for the people and let them vote....they choose to leave.

of course the 13th is legal..never said it was not....

 

[Removable Mind]

unalienable.....monuments made by people in 1943 at not the document in the national actives...


The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

More metaphysical thinking. WE HAVE EVOLVED, EB...

Just because UNALIENABLE was written BY A HUMAN BEING doesn't make it reality....wake up....before its too late.

 

[Master PO]

Well, now you've put your foot in it. Neither Jame Madison or Jefferson authored anything that wasn't substantially derived from some other persons or sources. They were major contributors penning the Constitution and DOI respectively...but man, EB...you're ignorance about how our Constitution and DOI came into being - along with some magical thinking that natural law was and is the true foundation is beyond the lowest levels of knowledge regarding the civil framework our system of government, but more especially "rights".

While drafting the Bill of Rights, James Madison drew heavily on the Virginia Declaration of Rights, written by George Mason and ratified shortly before the Constitution of Virginia in June 1776. Considered the first constitutional protection of individual rights, it also provided a blueprint for the U.S. Declaration of Independence and France’s Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.

Ever hear of John Locke or the Magna Carta? EB...there were many great philosophers who came way before our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights who were major influences on the principles that have become the frameworks for our nation's form of government and laws. There were many historical documents that were drawn from by the framers of our nation.

You've come back a hundred times with more nonsensical beliefs - which are virtually scary.

The human imagination is the closest thing to natural law. Natural law is metaphysics at its best. We always have and always will be a nation rule by "Common Law", which I now have to assume that you don't understand that concept.

:roll:..this is dumb..the poster does not know history at all.

james Madison is the father of the constitution and the author of the bill of rights........MADISON LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE CONSTITUTION MONTHS BEFORE THE CONVENTION.

George Madison is consider the father of the bill of rights, because HE INSISTED ON HAVING THEM.....

 

[Paperview]

unalienable.....monuments made by people in 1943 at not the document in the national actives...

You didn't answer my question.

It was a simple one.

What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI in 1776?

 

[Master PO]

more metaphysical thinking. We have evolved, eb...

Just because unalienable was written by a human being doesn't make it reality....wake up....before its too late.

sorry you cannot get around the document which is in the national achieves in d.c......which states...unalienable...

 

[Removable Mind]

:roll:..this is dumb..the poster does not know history at all.

james Madison is the father of the constitution and the author of the bill of rights........MADISON LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE CONSTITUTION MONTHS BEFORE THE CONVENTION.

George Madison is consider the father of the bill of rights, because HE INSISTED ON HAVING THEM.....

YOU ARE WRONG ....TERRIBLY WRONG...James Madison didn't create the Constitution from solely on ORIGINAL THOUGHT (far from it)...and he wasn't the only contributor.

 

[Master PO]

You didn't answer my question.

It was a simple one.

What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI in 1776?

guy, i am not playing your game.....you already stated inalienable was on the document, now you are trying a different avenue.....

 

[Master PO]

YOU ARE WRONG ....TERRIBLY WRONG...James Madison didn't create the Constitution from ORIGINAL THOUGHT...and he wasn't the only contributor.

more not knowing history......Madison in his march 19 1787...tells Jefferson it is already writing a new constitution.

Madison. laid the foundation.

created the notes of the convention, made more proposals then anyone, and more of his were accepted then anyone, he worked on the committee of style, and put the clauses of the constitution together with a few other members, wrote many of the federalist papers, did more works on the constitution then anyone, wrote the bill of rights...wrote papers on rights..

he is the most important person concerning the constitution.


your history is terrible

 

[Paperview]

guy, i am not playing you game.....you already stated inalienable was on the document, now you are trying a different avenue.....

That was the same question I asked in #854 :

Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI?

I added "in 1776." Did that trip you up?

Again:
What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI?

 

[Master PO]

A very astute observation. The OP writer seems to want badly to believe that the Dec is law and has effect today. Not only is that not true, but it was pretty much forgotten once it had served its sole purpose of announcing our separation from Great Britain in 1776.

Much has been written about this and the best comes from Pauliene Maier in her excellent book AMERICAN SCRIPTURE. Here is a mention of it

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



For a document that some dishonestly want to foist upon us a the law of the land - it played no such role in the time it was written nor in the years right after it was written. It served its purpose and was placed on the shelf as no longer relevant having done the sole job it was crafted to do.

Maier further points out that the Dec was only resurrected for narrow partisan purposes - which seems to also be the impetus behind the OP and its writer.



So it is clear: The Declaration was a very narrow document which announced the separation of the USA from Britain - a birth announcement if you will and was not at all considered anything beyond that limited purpose.

People on the right seem to constantly want to talk about original intent and want the world to consider what something meant at the time it was written but why oh why does this advocate from the far right want us to IGNORE the purpose of the Declaration and the role it played at the time it played it which is directly opposite from his apparent political agenda today.

Maybe he he was more honest and forthcoming in telling us WHY his argument means anything today to AMericans and its application in 2015 in law - he might better explain himself and his motivations.

more talking among themselves to get reassurance, and to comfort their failures.

 

[Master PO]

More metaphysical thinking. WE HAVE EVOLVED, EB...

Just because UNALIENABLE was written BY A HUMAN BEING doesn't make it reality....wake up....before its too late.

oh !....so you now you guys admit its unalienable.....:lol:

 

[Removable Mind]

more not knowing history......Madison in his march 19 1787...tells Jefferson it is already writing a new constitution.

Madison. laid the foundation.

created the notes of the convention, made more proposals then anyone, and more of his were accepted then anyone, he worked on the committee of style, and put the clauses of the constitution together with a few other members, wrote many of the federalist papers, did more works on the constitution then anyone, wrote the bill of rights...wrote papers on rights..

the is the most important person concerning the constitution.


you history is terrible

You have showed yourself to be one of the most intellectually incompetent posters with regard to our nation's founding principles, form of government and rights.

The sheer nonsense you've managed to come from you over the last 80 plus pages is simply mind boggling.

You're boring me to death now. I don't need to push you into making another horribly flawed post.

Have fun...and I'm really done. Maybe others will continue to urge you to entertain all with your fantasies and magical thinking.

 

[Removable Mind]

oh !....so you now you guys admit its unalienable.....:lol:

WHAT? Only Helen Keller can't read UNALIENABLE...but it doesn't make it true or a reality in relationship to our laws or how our nation is governed.

Gezzzzzzzzzzzzzzus Gawh...what is wrong with you?

 

[Master PO]

That was the same question I asked in #854 :

Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI?

I added "in 1776." Did that trip you up?

Again:
What word did Jefferson use when he wrote the DoI?

my argument has been the document in the archives...i have stated that from the beginning.......did you not understand that from the beginning.