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Deaths from COVID-19 overblown. Need help with research

Paradoxical said:
Somebody who was 70-80 with a history of heart disease was going to live another 30 years?
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My mother was diagnosed with heart disease when she was 50. She died of cancer when she was 87. Your point?
 
Paradoxical said:
Somebody who was 70-80 with a history of heart disease was going to live another 30 years?
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It could be six months, it's still a coronavirus death.
 
Lord of Planar said:
If only people who have medical conditions that increase their risk of dying are affected, why should the whole nation suffer?

Why not just suggest these people stay isolated, instead of isolating the whole nation? Wouldn't it be better for everyone at risk if we let it run it's contagion course over maybe three months, instead of a year?

Is it really necessary to damage the economy, possibly beyond repair?
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So when are you going to answer this question? You keep posting this same inane suggestion but then cant explain how they can do so.

Please, try again: when millions of these elderly and at-risk people live with their families...how can they "isolate" themselves if their families must go back to work? If the kids start going out to school or daycare or activities again? That's millions and millions of people potentially taking the infection back to their at-risk loved ones. If they open up the economy again, people have to go to work or they dont get the unemployment and other new program $ promised. So more of those seemingly (to you) unimportant people will die.

If people stay at home and out of contact with the public...more of those people will survive. Women undergoing chemo for breast cancer, kids with leukemia, people with lupus, people with the flu, people with diabetes, people with heart conditions, elderly with dementia, elderly who cant care for themselves, etc etc etc.

Unless you can tell me...how can those millions of elderly and at-risk people 'isolate' themselves? You dismissed internment camps (wow, bully for you!)...so then how?

Come on, this is at least the 3rd time I've asked you.
 
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Lord of Planar said:
If only people who have medical conditions that increase their risk of dying are affected, why should the whole nation suffer?

Why not just suggest these people stay isolated, instead of isolating the whole nation? Wouldn't it be better for everyone at risk if we let it run it's contagion course over maybe three months, instead of a year?

Is it really necessary to damage the economy, possibly beyond repair?
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Let's see, with the precautions we are taking so far in three months over twenty thousand deaths. Now let's imagine we do nothing and everyone just goes about their business. My guess, there would have been well over two hundred thousand deaths and the frigging economy would be wrecked anyway. Happy now?
 
bongsaway said:
Let's see, with the precautions we are taking so far in three months over twenty thousand deaths. Now let's imagine we do nothing and everyone just goes about their business. My guess, there would have been well over two hundred thousand deaths and the frigging economy would be wrecked anyway. Happy now?
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I doubt that would have happened since it has been determined many people have almost no symptoms who have contracted it. Besides, your number is only three times higher than the 2017-2018 flu season deaths.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I doubt that would have happened since it has been determined many people have almost no symptoms who have contracted it. Besides, your number is only three times higher than the 2017-2018 flu season deaths.
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You are welcome to your opinion.
 
Lord of Planar said:
To bad you aren't giving flu related deaths the same concern.
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Uh, what? Influenza does not have some different set of criteria when it comes to determining cause of death.
 
Lord of Planar said:
What do you expect, even in a flu season, with a population density of 15,207 per sq. km?

The problem with you alarmist types, is you have no past history statistics to base this on. You just listen to the hype from the media and politicians.
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I expect you to understand my point which is that people living in the epicenter don't really care about your statistics. Past or present. At all. Pointing out the obvious is not alarmist, though the obvious sometimes alarms people who are lost in an argument.
 
Paradoxical said:
I only have so many hours in a day and would like those interested in truth to assist me if they would be so kind. Most of you already know that the federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite. Here is the link:

Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as '''COVID-19''' deaths, regardless of cause | Fox News

I don't want to make this OP overly long by rehashing the link, but suffice to say that they are just taking the word of the doctors all over the United States that a death was due to COVID-19 and are assuming that tests are being done and say that they understand autopsies probably aren't being conducted. So, ANY preexisting condition is ignored. If someone is in their late 70s or 80s and has been in and out of the hospital for decades is brought into the emergency room, he or she is apparently automatically listed as having died from the Corona Visis, aka: WuFlu. Hospitals are empty of regular patients. Apparently people are deciding NOT to die right now from heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease because they want to save the hospital beds for COVID-19 patients.

I went to the CDC site and it isn't much help, either. Their site is just for guidance and not binding. No one will check to see if a patient really died from the WuFlu or something else. It appears that as long as there was the slightest hint of the WuFlu they encourage the doctor to show it that way.

COVID-19 Guidance Postmortem Specimens | CDC



Thus, it would appear that the numbers are blown up for COVID-19 but what I want to know is by how much? Some sites suggest that if these preexisting conditions weren't included (like other countries DON'T include) the ACTUAL deaths directly attributed to the WuFlu would be HALF what they are showing or less.

What I would like the readers to do is to research this and see if I am right or off base here. Can we find out for instance, how many LESS deaths are being reported now for regular diseases like kidney failure, stoke, diabetes, obesity, lung disease, cancer? Is that information available anywhere? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. This valuable research could be utilized to examine the actual extent of the problem so that all of us can be guided accordingly. eg., the death rate is show at 18,000 but is it really 9,000 or 7,000 or ?
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Do you have any clue about ARSA? Have you ever taken care of an ARDS patient? If not, shut up. You are welcome to report me, I can handle the points.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Where was the media hype?
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What does that have to do with the alleged miscategorization of deaths? I'm confused as to this jump in topic. You're back on "should we be concerned about the virus," I guess?
 
Lovebug said:
Do you have any clue about ARSA? Have you ever taken care of an ARDS patient? If not, shut up. You are welcome to report me, I can handle the points.
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I never report anyone. Only snowflakes do that. Besides why in the world would anyone ever let some anonymous internet poster bother them? This isn't about those brave people who treat patients suffering from Acute Respiratory Disease Syndrome, who deserve our utmost respect and admiration. My wife happens to work at a hospital and is at greater risk so I don't need you to attempt to silence me through attempted shame and ridicule. The numbers in America are HIGHLY inflated and anyone with a modicum of sense can see that just by looking at the Worldometer map.

Isn't this something that would be of interest and benefit for society to learn and know? Or is it better that we continue to live in fear and ignorance because out media and government gains money and power by keeping us in fear?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I doubt that would have happened since it has been determined many people have almost no symptoms who have contracted it. Besides, your number is only three times higher than the 2017-2018 flu season deaths.
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"ONLY 3 times higher"...@_@ and you dont consider that significant? Pretty sure those that died did before they passed, and certainly their families.

And no one has been claiming flu deaths are insignificant either. But that may be what can be managed with vaccination and current treatment. That may be what can be sustained without shutting down the entire economy...so how do you want it? Save MORE flu patients by shutting down the economy for flu? Or opening it up and letting tens of thousands more C19 patients die? Please let me know.
 
year2late said:
My mother was diagnosed with heart disease when she was 50. She died of cancer when she was 87. Your point?
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That wasn't the question. The death rate for those who contract the WuFlu is over 80% for those over 65. All of you are ignoring this fact. It is not the right way to calculate the death rate the way America is doing it. More on this later. But, this has been discussed. What it REALLY is and rather unfortunately, is a psychosis among the left driven by MSM.

The left WANTS more deaths ATTRIBUTED to this virus to damage Trump. THAT is the reason I/we are having so much dissension on how the death rate is figured. There is NO other reason.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The problem with you alarmist types
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President Trump obviously is one or the country would be back at work.




This alternate reality is gonna be similar the the MSM one (where Fox and all the Republicans are not part of the MSM ;) ). Already this reality has only "liberals" doing shutdowns, social distancing, etc. The dishonesty is never a surprise.
 
CaughtInThe said:
President Trump obviously is one or the country would be back at work.




This alternate reality is gonna be similar the the MSM one (where Fox and all the Republicans are not part of the MSM ;) ). Already this reality has only "liberals" doing shutdowns, social distancing, etc. The dishonesty is never a surprise.
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Is he suppose to override the states rights?
 
Paradoxical said:
That wasn't the question. The death rate for those who contract the WuFlu is over 80% for those over 65. All of you are ignoring this fact. It is not the right way to calculate the death rate the way America is doing it. More on this later. But, this has been discussed. What it REALLY is and rather unfortunately, is a psychosis among the left driven by MSM.

The left WANTS more deaths ATTRIBUTED to this virus to damage Trump. THAT is the reason I/we are having so much dissension on how the death rate is figured. There is NO other reason.
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This is the mother of all stupid conservative conspiracy theories. Yes thousands of doctors and nurses across the globe have secretly conspired to increase the death count to make Trump look bad.

Do you ever look in a mirror?
 
With less than 1% of the population being tested and employers being told not to report cases ( per OSHA) we have no idea how many are infected and how many have died.

Where are the tests? POTUS said "Anyone who wants a test can get a test." With no mass testing he can claim a lower number of cases and deaths on his watch just to boost his re-election chances.
 
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