Death thoughts

[Riveroaks]

Sounds intriguing Riveroaks... please don't leave us in suspense!

In Bertrand Russell's book "The History Of Western Philosophy," he talks about each of these ancient Greeks and their various speculations in their various schools.

The earliest Greek philosophers were from Miletus and they believed in the Olympian Gods and that man's fate ended in the Underworld where eternal life was gloomy for all.

Pythagoras developed a belief in the transmigration of souls among various animals.

Xenophanes stipulated that men invented their own gods, and if horses and lions could paint they would paint their own gods as horses and lions.

Heraclitus taught that all become one with God ultimately, that we come from God, and that we return to God and again become a part of God.

Plato came along and created a philosophical all knowing all seeing all present all powerful single God, and he influenced San Tomas, Saint Augustine, and the Roman Catholic Church.

That's most of the story.

The ancient Greeks had already invented most of modern thought by the time of Aristotle in 350 BC.

This book needs to be re-read several times to get everything out of it.

I am reading it now for the third time cover to cover.

Most of the chit chat on this here website is some variation of one of these ideas, or else skeptical rationalism like Frank Apisa, or else atheism, or else pragmaticism in ethics where there may be EVIDENCE of God but no proof possible either way.

 

[Manny]

Most of the chit chat on this here website is some variation of one of these ideas,

Amazing that these issues have been pondered upon and debated for thousands of years, and we are still debating them today. The human dilemma does not change.

 

[Ancient Herald]

Death is the musical fruit.
the more you eat the more you toot.

 

[distraff]

Here is a religion question.

Has anyone thought of what death is like? A theory is it is no different than undergoing anesthesia. You feel nothing, except it is forever.

I guess it is the same as before you were born, or when you are asleep without dreaming. Kind of freaky.

 

[Absentglare]

I guess it is the same as before you were born, or when you are asleep without dreaming. Kind of freaky.

Death is the inevitable result of a world with limited resources.

The only way that a world can exist is if it can be defined. If it can be defined, it must be limited. If it is limited, so, too, are our actions.

In this way, it gives some importance to virtually every task we accomplish. We're only here a limited time, everything we do reflects on who we are.

Surely, it also means that nothing we do matters that much, at all. All of our stories end the same, whether you're Bill Gates or homeless.

It is the reason i succumbed to hedonism in my youth. Hell, nothing matters, may as well have fun.

Now, i know that such pleasure does not lend itself to lasting satisfaction. Indeed, perpetual dissatisfaction has been hypothesized to be the basis of civilization. I suspect there is no lasting satisfaction, but there are certainly more renewable satisfactions. I can find only a very limited solace in the fact that i forge my own path the best way that i can with the available information.

Death and life are two sides of the same coin. One cannot exist without the other.

 

[Manny]

I suspect there is no lasting satisfaction

The dead are no longer dissatisfied...

 

[RAMOSS]

The dead are no longer dissatisfied...

And how do you know?? Assuming something does survive the physical body.

 

[Manny]

And how do you know?? Assuming something does survive the physical body.

It was a joke my friend. I was assuming there is nothing left for the dead to want, need or desire. Hence, the dead are finally satisfied.
If you see the comment I was responding to, you might get a laugh.

But then... RAMOSS you are so serious. So maybe not...

 

[RAMOSS]

It was a joke my friend. I was assuming there is nothing left for the dead to want, need or desire. Hence, the dead are finally satisfied.
If you see the comment I was responding to, you might get a laugh.

But then... RAMOSS you re so serious. So probably not...

Am I so serious?? Really?? There are a great many things I don't take serious at all. .. like the person you were responding to for example. I personally have direct evidence that while The Dead might not be dissatisfied , the Rolling Stones get no satisfaction.

 

[Manny]

Am I so serious?? Really?? There are a great many things I don't take serious at all. .. like the person you were responding to for example. I personally have direct evidence that while The Dead might not be dissatisfied , the Rolling Stones get no satisfaction.

I thought his post had some interesting ideas. He said he was a hedonist, but came to realize this held little long term value. I think that's interesting because we often forget we are a work in progress. What we think now might change in the future. As experience grows, intelligence grows. Even the fear of death goes away.

The child seeks immediate satisfaction and cannot wait. It does not understand the notion of time, or the rights of others because its mind is completely focused itself. A young adult might embrace socialism, seeing in it a solution to the powerlessness of the poor, and that worldly authority might be able to fix things. Finally comes a realization that this world is so corrupt, that there is no hope for real justice through the works of men. Eventually one becomes an ascetic, one prays for a miracle. That's evolution...

 

[RAMOSS]

I thought his post had some interesting ideas. He said he was a hedonist, but came to realize this held little long term value. I think that's interesting because we often forget we are a work in progress. What we think now might change in the future. As experience grows, intelligence grows. Even the fear of death goes away.

The child seeks immediate satisfaction and cannot wait. It does not understand the notion of time, or the rights of others because its mind is completely focused itself. A young adult might embrace socialism, seeing in it a solution to the powerlessness of the poor, and that worldly authority might be able to fix things. Finally comes a realization that this world is so corrupt, that there is no hope for real justice through the works of men. Eventually one becomes an ascetic, one prays for a miracle. That's evolution...

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Or, one realizes that no man is an island unto themselves, and while there is no 'real justice', there is a very important element that can and should be spread. There is what is known as 'the act of kindness', which creates ripples that counters , to some degree, the corruption and the fear. One act can have ramifications for generations to come.

 

[Absentglare]

Or, one realizes that no man is an island unto themselves, and while there is no 'real justice', there is a very important element that can and should be spread. There is what is known as 'the act of kindness', which creates ripples that counters , to some degree, the corruption and the fear. One act can have ramifications for generations to come.

Life is suffering.

Intelligence requires kindness in order to exist. I once heard someone claim "nobody out there in the real world is doing anybody else any favors," and i can't help but think how completely wrong that is. We all do favors for one another, constantly. Every human baby would die if it were not for a parent's kindness. Civilization could not exist without kindness.

Actually, i consider this relentless tax-cutting mentality to be a form of hedonism. Materialism and greed go hand-in-hand.

 

[_Sal]

Life is suffering.

Intelligence requires kindness in order to exist. I once heard someone claim "nobody out there in the real world is doing anybody else any favors," and i can't help but think how completely wrong that is. We all do favors for one another, constantly. Every human baby would die if it were not for a parent's kindness. Civilization could not exist without kindness.

Actually, i consider this relentless tax-cutting mentality to be a form of hedonism. Materialism and greed go hand-in-hand.

agreed and that's why babies are cute...big eyes that follow and engage and chubby cheeks, cute little fingers...it's a survival look

 

[RAMOSS]

Life is suffering.

Intelligence requires kindness in order to exist. I once heard someone claim "nobody out there in the real world is doing anybody else any favors," and i can't help but think how completely wrong that is. We all do favors for one another, constantly. Every human baby would die if it were not for a parent's kindness. Civilization could not exist without kindness.

Actually, i consider this relentless tax-cutting mentality to be a form of hedonism. Materialism and greed go hand-in-hand.

Hum. No, Intelligence does not require kindness. Many psychopaths and sociopaths are very intelligent, and have no kindness or empathy. It appears you need kindness for society to function, so at least SOME members of the society have to have some kind of kindness. I look at the relentless tax cutting to be more narssicism rather than hedonism.

 

[Absentglare]

Hum. No, Intelligence does not require kindness. Many psychopaths and sociopaths are very intelligent, and have no kindness or empathy. It appears you need kindness for society to function, so at least SOME members of the society have to have some kind of kindness. I look at the relentless tax cutting to be more narssicism rather than hedonism.

Intelligent beings require kindness as a survival trait to survive.

I'm not saying everyone who is intelligent is kind, i'm saying the human race would never have had a chance without kindness.

And you're right, of course. A good degree of narcissism. I suppose i was speaking more generally of a self-serving obsession.

 

[Ancient Herald]

Hum. No, Intelligence does not require kindness. Many psychopaths and sociopaths are very intelligent, and have no kindness or empathy. It appears you need kindness for society to function, so at least SOME members of the society have to have some kind of kindness. I look at the relentless tax cutting to be more narssicism rather than hedonism.

At the risk of a Godwin, societies like Nazi German and Communist Russia functioned very well and had no kindness in them.

 

[Manny]

At the risk of a Godwin, societies like Nazi German and Communist Russia functioned very well and had no kindness in them.

One could also say that "function" means to have longevity.

 

[KevinKohler]

I believe consciousness after life will be just liked it was before life......nothing.


The problem is, it's hard, to nearly impossible, to contemplate nothingness. The imagine what nothing is like. Because...it's like nothing else.

 

[KevinKohler]

At the risk of a Godwin, societies like Nazi German and Communist Russia functioned very well and had no kindness in them.

That's not true at all.

 

[KevinKohler]

Life is suffering? Miserable?





Folks, life is what you make it. People who are miserable are such because they choose to be. Choose to be happy, regardless of your surroundings and circumstances, and you will be happy. It's all a mater of perspective. Even a bum has plenty of things to be happy about. It's all in what you CHOOSE to focus on.

 

[Ancient Herald]

That's not true at all.

it's absolutely true.

 

[KevinKohler]

it's absolutely true.

Prove there was no kindness to be found in Nazi Germany.

 

[Ancient Herald]

One could also say that "function" means to have longevity.

If that's the case then there is no such thing as a functioning society. All societies break down.

And all democracies become a tyranny of some sort.

 

[Ancient Herald]

Prove there was no kindness to be found in Nazi Germany.

moving the goal posts.

you made the first claim. the onus is on you.

 

[Ancient Herald]

Life is suffering? Miserable?





Folks, life is what you make it. People who are miserable are such because they choose to be. Choose to be happy, regardless of your surroundings and circumstances, and you will be happy. It's all a mater of perspective. Even a bum has plenty of things to be happy about. It's all in what you CHOOSE to focus on.

That is also not entirely true. For many people, yes, but sometimes, no.