Death Penalty: For or Against

[sebastiansdreams]

Then maybe you ought to be on the green mile too chief. And vengence only spawns more vengence. Man A kills man B, man B's mother wants man A to get the death penalty so she testifies. Man A goes to the chair. But man A's mother is now on a vengence spree against man B's mother. And the "hits" just keep on coming.

 

[PanchenLama]

Hm. Then maybe we should lock up both tha momma's for fear they would kill.

Usually when people kill, it's out of some sort of psychological problem. If there was a proveable way to rehabilitate crazed killers, then I'm all for it. But thus far, nothing has stopped most killers, molesters, rapists from repeating their actions. Sad stories all the way 'round, that the world has to kill.

I have a question...what should be done with terrorists? Should we rehab. them and send them on their way? or just keep them locked up, where they have access to their families and some conjugal visits?

 

[sebastiansdreams]

Hm. Then maybe we should lock up both tha momma's for fear they would kill.

Usually when people kill, it's out of some sort of psychological problem. If there was a proveable way to rehabilitate crazed killers, then I'm all for it. But thus far, nothing has stopped most killers, molesters, rapists from repeating their actions. Sad stories all the way 'round, that the world has to kill.

I have a question...what should be done with terrorists? Should we rehab. them and send them on their way? or just keep them locked up, where they have access to their families and some conjugal visits?

Which is why I believe that instead of just spending money to execute these prisoners, maybe we ought take that money and at least attempt to find a more effective way of rehabilitating our prisoners. Prison only teaches one how to survive and not get caught. It needs to be reformed so that it rehibilitates.

 

[PanchenLama]

True, but let's at least take away all priveleges they have, come on, cable tv, work out areas, warm bodies to sleep next to. Put them all in isolation, but make sure they all still share the same shower.

cruel and unusual

 

[Pacridge]

What is barbaric is allowing convicted rapists & murderers roam the streets. The average time served for murder is 7 years. The average time served for rape is 4 years. That is anarchy.

Allowing crimes to go unpunished (or underpunished) will lead to a breakdown of our society. Compare the Middle East and Mexico. Punishment is swift and sure in the Middle East, resulting in little crime. But 98% of all crimes go unpunished in Mexico, resulting in anarchy.

As for the death penalty being archaic and barbaric, that would be the European view. Europeans have nothing over Americans in the morality department and they shouldn't be used as our role models. Secular Europeans (are there any other kind?) do not believe in absolute "right" or "wrong". To them, all points of view have equal credibility. For instance, they see nothing wrong or odd about having Sudan chair the human rights commission at the U.N., even though Sudan is currently involved in genocide.

Americans have always believed in absolute right and wrong. God help us if we go the way of the Europeans.

Do you have a source for that stat?

 

[Urethra Franklin]

To a very limited extent that may be true. It does not extend to killing herself nor killing the child which may be residing temporarily in her womb..

She has the right to kill herself in any civilised society.
She does not have the right to kill a child but she does have the right to abort a foetus.

Furthermore, laws provide that if an expectant mother deliberately damages her own health to the extent that it effects or may effect the health of the child she is carrying, she may face a legal liability.

There are implications on the life of another human being if she intends to see that pregnancy to term. If she doesn't, such laws are superfluous since they don't affect the rights of another human being.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Divicive, to the core, I see.

No, flexible. Not a word in your vocabulary.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

But you are still arguing inconvinience to the mother as opposed to what we feel is murder. Which is a more pressing concern? A murder or an inconvinience?

We could turn this around and say you're arguing the inflicting of trauma and in some cases the ruination of a woman's life versus a simple surgical procedure.

Sebastian we can go round in circles forever. Our views are diametrically opposed and we're not going to convince each other. The difference is I would never seek laws to force my views into the lives of others in such an area where we have no clear cut consensus. You would, and that is neither just nor reasonable.

 

[sebastiansdreams]

We could turn this around and say you're arguing the inflicting of trauma and in some cases the ruination of a woman's life versus a simple surgical procedure.

Sebastian we can go round in circles forever. Our views are diametrically opposed and we're not going to convince each other. The difference is I would never seek laws to force my views into the lives of others in such an area where we have no clear cut consensus. You would, and that is neither just nor reasonable.

Yes, cause so often having a child ruins a girl's life and inflicts a great deal of trauma. In fact, I don't think we should have any more kids period, since it's all so horrible for the women.

That's right, I do not think it is fair to allow someone the "right" to kill someone else just because they thought they were less of a person. If you would not seek laws into stopping me from murdering then that's your choice, but I believe we should punish murderers, in every shape and form.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Yes, cause so often having a child ruins a girl's life and inflicts a great deal of trauma. In fact, I don't think we should have any more kids period, since it's all so horrible for the women.

That's right, I do not think it is fair to allow someone the "right" to kill someone else just because they thought they were less of a person. If you would not seek laws into stopping me from murdering then that's your choice, but I believe we should punish murderers, in every shape and form.

As a society we have reached a concensus that once somebody has been born they have a right to life, hence to kill them is "murder" (and I would argue that that applies to people in the electric chair - fortunately I don't live in a country where the state murders living human beings).
However, we don't have such a concensus on abortion since we have no concensus on where life begins, hence any civilised nations has laws which accomodate both points of view. You want the cake and the cream, but you can't have it all. Get over it.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Yes, cause so often having a child ruins a girl's life and inflicts a great deal of trauma. In fact, I don't think we should have any more kids period, since it's all so horrible for the women.
.

You're showing your immaturity. Of course it's wonderful for women who want it. But not for those who don't. I speak as a woman who happens to be sterile. I'm intelligent enough not to resent fertile women who have abortions as I realise their decision is personal and has nothing to do with my own situation. But then I don't inhabit that black and white world you live in.

 

[sebastiansdreams]

As a society we have reached a concensus that once somebody has been born they have a right to life, hence to kill them is "murder" (and I would argue that that applies to people in the electric chair - fortunately I don't live in a country where the state murders living human beings).
However, we don't have such a concensus on abortion since we have no concensus on where life begins, hence any civilised nations has laws which accomodate both points of view. You want the cake and the cream, but you can't have it all. Get over it.

So therefore, since there was a consensus that a black man in America in the early 19th century was not equal to a white man, then it is equally okay that they killed him or at very least used him as their slave, since we're working of of general consensus. Funny, some called him a man, some called him a nigger, just like you call a baby a fetus. And then that way, you can allow it to be killed and tell me to get over it.

 

[sebastiansdreams]

You're showing your immaturity. Of course it's wonderful for women who want it. But not for those who don't. I speak as a woman who happens to be sterile. I'm intelligent enough not to resent fertile women who have abortions as I realise their decision is personal and has nothing to do with my own situation. But then I don't inhabit that black and white world you live in.

So for a woman who gets pregnant before she decided she was ready, having the child is traumatic and can ruin her life? I'm sorry, but any one who thinks that her own child has ruined her life is selfish beyond any explanation. Again it goes back to pitting mothers against their children. As far as my immaturity is concerned, I find it interesting that you would call someone who believes that people ought to have to face the consequences of their actions instead of snuffing them out so they don't have to deal with it is preaching about immaturity. If a person has sex, then they can get pregnant. It's as simple as that. If a woman is not willng to have the child, then for God's sake, don't have sex. That is the choice the woman has with her own body, once there is a child inside of it it is her body and a childs, and any decision she makes she is making for both of them.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

So therefore, since there was a consensus that a black man in America in the early 19th century was not equal to a white man, then it is equally okay that they killed him or at very least used him as their slave, since we're working of of general consensus. Funny, some called him a man, some called him a nigger, just like you call a baby a fetus. And then that way, you can allow it to be killed and tell me to get over it.

We've moved on since then, which is why racial equality is enshrined in law, as is the right to abortion.

 

[sebastiansdreams]

That right, we've gone from making slaves to murder.... Great step in the right direction

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Was not slavery enshrined in law just as your abortion is?

Both are injustices.

 

[UConn/SMU]

Do you have a source for that stat?

(regarding my post that 98% of all crimes in Mexico going unpunished)

Answer: No. I read it recently (in the last 30 days), but I've read hundreds of newspapers & magazines since then. I can't pin it down to which publication/issue.

 

[UConn/SMU]

That right, we've gone from making slaves to murder.... Great step in the right direction

Executing creeps that rape and murder 9 year old girls is not "murder". It's justice. Anything short of execution in cases like that is a joke.

Why are liberals so concerned with the feelings of the guilty parties? What about the families that are destroyed by these monsters? If the execution lessens any of their pain by one iota, it's worth it.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Government sactioned and endorsed and funded revenge.

That's a great idea.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the feelings of the rapist/murderer of a nine year old. It's the b.s. policy of eye for an eye that I have a problem with.

 

[akyron]

Executing creeps that rape and murder 9 year old girls is not "murder". It's justice. Anything short of execution in cases like that is a joke.

Why are liberals so concerned with the feelings of the guilty parties? What about the families that are destroyed by these monsters? If the execution lessens any of their pain by one iota, it's worth it.

I am not against wiping them off the face of the earth but maybe they could be forced to do unsavory productive tasks with the monetary benefits going towards the families. Work them until they die and get some use out them.

 

[Fantasea]

Was not slavery enshrined in law just as your abortion is?

Both are injustices.

Laws must be legislated. The legality of abortion is simply an opinion that no law prohibits it. It is the same as the Massachusetts same-sex marriage situation. The opinion of a court is that no law prohibits it.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Slavery did seem to work out well in the past... (sarcasm)

Cruel and unsual punishment. Yes, what was done to the 9 yr old was cruel and unusual, but our constitution rules out the notion of both slave labor and "unsavory productive tasks" "until they die and [getting] some use out them."

 

[sebastiansdreams]

Executing creeps that rape and murder 9 year old girls is not "murder". It's justice. Anything short of execution in cases like that is a joke.

Why are liberals so concerned with the feelings of the guilty parties? What about the families that are destroyed by these monsters? If the execution lessens any of their pain by one iota, it's worth it.

It's not the feelings of the guilty party, it's the life of the guilty party. Again, eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind. Whatever happened to forgiveness and rehibilitation? I'm sorry, but the system is simply not failsafe, and far too many people die innocent of the crimes they are charged with. Of course I feel sorry for the family, but that other person dead only adds to a body count, it does not bring the child back and it does not mean that it will not happen again from someone else.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

It's not the feelings of the guilty party, it's the life of the guilty party. Again, eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind.

Seby said a Gandhi quote!

Monkey dance! :monkey :monkey

 

[Urethra Franklin]

That right, we've gone from making slaves to murder....

Well, in the US you have, since you have the death penalty, but civilized nations have racial equality enshrined in law, have made slavery illegal, have abolished the death penalty and recognised a woman's right to choose.

Great step in the right direction

Yeah, I think so too.
:2wave: