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Day 7 testimony ( Tuesday 7/2)

Oceandan said:
So what you're saying is, the MILLISECOND Zimmerman exited his vehicle to see where Martin was going, is the end of the case? It doesn't matter the dispatcher said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman replies "ok", and is returning to his vehicle after apparently checking another street to see if Martin has emerged. He's ambushed, sucker punched and pummeled? You're saying it's HIS fault for leaving his vehicle?

Zimmerman NEVER admits "following" Martin and as many suggest "hunting him down".

The INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY is continuing to blame Zimmerman for leaving his vehicle. Absurd.
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It seems that a lot of people are ignoring that the operator also asked Zimmerman to tell him if Martin did anything different or more suspicious. Martin, taking off running, would have been one of those things different and/or more suspicious.
 
Lutherf said:
Assuming that the prosecution calls Sabrina Fulton today if you are the defense do you cross?
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Yes. I would suspect she'll be asked about the playing of the 911 call (with the screams) in a group rather then indvidually, as the voice experts indicated should have been done.
 
Oceandan said:
Zimmerman NEVER admits "following" Martin and as many suggest "hunting him down".
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To be clear, he left his vehicle to follow him in the sense that he wanted to keep an eye on where he was going. After the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that, he never advanced any further south in the direction that Martin ran off in... To say Z was hunting him down, is the height of dishonesty.

The INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY is continuing to blame Zimmerman for leaving his vehicle. Absurd.
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Agreed
 
spanky said:
Only if you believe the unbelievable "looking for an address" excuse. If you don't, then Z continued to follow TM and try to determine his location.

Now, I don't see anything illegal about that, he was just trying to do his job as NW..uhhhh...person. It may not have been the best thing but I don't think it was nefarious and I don't think Z was tracking TM down to attack him.

But I come back to my central question, if it was a "good shoot" why lie about it?
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Why does your basic PREMISE continue to be Zimmerman lied about attempting to corroborate his location with an address?

What EVIDENTIARY premise do you have this is a lie?
 
buck said:
Doesn't have to do both at the same time. Not sure why you don't get that.
1) Trap hand
2) reach for your gun

In between the two, the hand will be free. But trapping it for that moment or two bought you enough time to get what you needed.
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Still doesn't explain the mechanics of their relative positions.

If M is straddling Z like everybody straddles anybody, his ass is on Zs pelvis and his knees along Zs side. The gun would be at Ms hip in the vee formed by his left leg. He would have had to reach back under his own thigh to reach it the way Z claimed he tried to. He would have had to lean almost onto Zs chest to do it.

Try it.
 
I think there was a struggle over the gun, and Zimmermann fired as soon as he gained control of it. I think Trayvon tried to snap Zimmermanns gun, unsuccessfully, and that in the spur of the moment, Zimmermann pulled the trigger.
 
Sean Hannity's interview???? Are you kidding me??????? The more I see of this trial the more I believe the state is simply putting on a show, not actually believing they have a case.
 
What if...? said:
Still doesn't explain the mechanics of their relative positions.

If M is straddling Z like everybody straddles anybody, his ass is on Zs pelvis and his knees along Zs side. The gun would be at Ms hip in the vee formed by his left leg. He would have had to reach back under his own thigh to reach it the way Z claimed he tried to. He would have had to lean almost onto Zs chest to do it.

Try it.
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So, I guess your contention is that Trayvon is too dumb or uncoorindated to be able to move his leg to provide access to the gun once he either felt or saw it? OK...
 
Oceandan said:
Sean Hannity's interview???? Are you kidding me??????? The more I see of this trial the more I believe the state is simply putting on a show, not actually believing they have a case.
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They're just relying on minor inconsitencies. The defense, I would hope, will have an expert talk about why and how this happens.
 
I just love the free plug for Shawn Humanity today!
 
buck said:
So, I guess your contention is that Trayvon is too dumb or uncoorindated to be able to move his leg to provide access to the gun once he either felt or saw it? OK...
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In that position he can reach down with his left hand and just GET IT.

Clamp his thighs and keep Z from getting it.

Still don't believe Z forgot he had it until M tried to get it.

That's a big heavy thing you've been rolling and shimmying around on.
 
buck said:
Doesn't have to do both at the same time. Not sure why you don't get that.
1) Trap hand
2) reach for your gun

In between the two, the hand will be free. But trapping it for that moment or two bought you enough time to get what you needed.
Click to expand...

How does he get to the gun when TM's leg is between it and him?
 
spanky said:
How does he get to the gun when TM's leg is between it and him?
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We've already had entire threads just on this, with Goshin, myself and others posting pics of how it's don. You're question is old ground covered long ago.
 
This case is over. Clearly Zimmerman is not guilty of second degree murder. He'll walk. The prosecution had nothing except a mousy girl that didn't know the difference between a fact and an opinion and another eye witness that saw Zimmerman on the bottom. I'd even say manslaughter is off the table. The prosecution butchered this case so badly they couldn't even get him for jaywalking at this point.
 
spanky said:
Not true. I don't believe Z should see jail time, but that's based on Z's statements and unfortunately I have determined Z has fibbed about many things.

I want the truth and if Z won't provide it it he gets what he deserves.
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Lol, you are confused and bewildered and you are not gonna get, the truth. Period

This trial is platform to test, the evidence *not to seek the truth* and to determine if, the M2 charge or set of lesser charges has been proved by proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Z is innocent until proven guilty. You *even the jury* can believe that Z is guilty but because of lack of evidence, the jury must find Z not guilty.

That, the way it is and that's the way it should be.
 
Lutherf said:
It seems that a lot of people are ignoring that the operator also asked Zimmerman to tell him if Martin did anything different or more suspicious. Martin, taking off running, would have been one of those things different and/or more suspicious.
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No, the NEN operator said "let us know if he does anything else". Z was in his car, the request was knowing Z was in the safety and security of the truck. He didn't tell Z to get out of the vehicle and follow TM.
 
buck said:
They're just relying on minor inconsitencies. The defense, I would hope, will have an expert talk about why and how this happens.
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I appears that that is their central strategy... Coming into this case, I thought that their strategy would be to convince the jury he was actively pursuing Martin and had approached him, or to focus more on the "life threatening or serious bodily injury" angle.
 
ksu_aviator said:
This case is over. Clearly Zimmerman is not guilty of second degree murder. He'll walk. The prosecution had nothing except a mousy girl that didn't know the difference between a fact and an opinion and another eye witness that saw Zimmerman on the bottom. I'd even say manslaughter is off the table. The prosecution butchered this case so badly they couldn't even get him for jaywalking at this point.
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If this case was sent to the jury today, I would agree 100%... But I have to believe the state has more to present than this.
 
Oceandan said:
So what you're saying is, the MILLISECOND Zimmerman exited his vehicle to see where Martin was going, is the end of the case? It doesn't matter the dispatcher said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman replies "ok", and is returning to his vehicle after apparently checking another street to see if Martin has emerged. He's ambushed, sucker punched and pummeled? You're saying it's HIS fault for leaving his vehicle?

Zimmerman NEVER admits "following" Martin and as many suggest "hunting him down".

The INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY is continuing to blame Zimmerman for leaving his vehicle. Absurd.
Click to expand...

NEN- "Are you following him?"

Zimm - "yes".

What trial are you watching?
 
spanky said:
No, the NEN operator said "let us know if he does anything else". Z was in his car, the request was knowing Z was in the safety and security of the truck. He didn't tell Z to get out of the vehicle and follow TM.
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Didn't tell him not to either.
 
Jerry said:
We've already had entire threads just on this, with Goshin, myself and others posting pics of how it's don. You're question is old ground covered long ago.
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I never saw that.

Is it a titled thread? Or can you point me in the right direction?
 
Oceandan said:
That's my assertion but based on opinion of like minded state laws not actual knowledge of Florida's law. In essence NOTHING prior to the moment Zimmerman's on the ground being pummeled matters, legally. It makes for great discussion but it's legally irrelevant.
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That's not true. The question is did Zimmermans attention and following of TM put TM in a state of fear.
 
spanky said:
How does he get to the gun when TM's leg is between it and him?
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Trayvon is not a slab of marble. He is capable of movement. Shrug.
 
Of course they'll point to some small inconcistencies, I just can't imagine how this helps the prosecutor.

George is getting his story out and its largely consistent with what he has always described.
 
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