Dawkins is written out of humanist studies.

[bomberfox]

While

1. I completely believe there are lots of instances of bullying or name calling in high school....

2. .... the idea that people get called names in middle school or high school is.... not exactly, shall we say, shocking.

60% LGBTQ students said they were called names or made fun of or bullied? Well, that puts you about 38 percentage points below the score for the general populace of the middle and high schools I grew up in.

The point was why they are called names. It was to demonstrate using predictions that can be reasonably (imo) made from the premises you laid out to show why i dont think they match with reality .

 

[bomberfox]

In biology it is very important to differentiate sex and gender because sex does not involve things like gender identity, sociological gender classifications like third genders or classifications outside a strict binary which do exist no matter how much people would like to believe otherwise. Instead of evolving our understanding of gender, too many people prefer to just stick with the 101 courses as if there is nothing outside that simplistic understanding. Dawkins does not understand sociology really at all so its not any wonder why he thinks the two must be permanently linked.

 

[ProgressPlease]

Dawkins wrote this yesterday

Race Is a Spectrum. Sex Is Pretty Damn Binary. - Areo

Long ago, on my father’s farm, we had a particularly bumptious, mischievous, even aggressive cow called Arusha. The herdsman, musing one day on her obstreperous behaviour, remarked, “Seems to me,…View Post

areomagazine.com

 

[Ouroboros]

To all those here who claimed that trans people were being "honest," how about using pronoun correctness to get kids accused of "sexual harassment?"

Parents Might Sue School Over Probe Into Sons Not Using Preferred Pronouns

District officials in a Wisconsin town are investigating and have charged middle school students with sexual harassment.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Lisa]

Cool. That's a pretty politicized publication, and nothing on this forum is worth being deceptive or full of crap for.

There is nothing political about it. It is a medical statement of fact. Is the DSM-5 politicized? Is WPATH? Maybe you should read it.

Introduction​

Gender Dysphoria, while being a new addition to DSM-5, is the new term for Gender Identity Disorder. In order to prevent stigma guarantee clinical care for people who perceive and believe they are a different sex than their designated gender, the new term was introduced (American Psychiatric Publishing, 2013). The DSM-5 diagnostic measures for gender dysphoria include tough and unrelenting cross-gender classification that go further than a need for an alleged cultural benefit.


Adults and teenagers may have a fixation with doing away of primary and secondary gender features, and have the thought that they are not being characterized by the right sex. One should realize that individuals, who have gender dysphoria, do not have a coexisting physical intersex situation. Noted pain or difficulty is seen in the work place, dealing with others, as well as in other vital areas of life. This is the defining factor of gender dysphoria (American Psychiatric Publishing, 2013). It is significant to state that gender dysphoria is frequently seen in children, though many children do not end up being adults with gender dysphoria (Canadian Psychological Association, 2013).


Psychological involvement may help patients with gender dysphoria. Individual therapy that pinpoints appreciating and handling gender problems should be central. In addition, involving the individual’s support group through family, group and marital therapy can offer a safe and secure environment. If needed, the use of hormone therapy may also prove beneficial.

Symptoms of Gender Dysphoria​

DSM-5 states that the initial condition for the identification of gender dysphoria in both adults and teenagers is a noticeable incongruence between the gender the patient believes they are, and what society perceives them to be. This disparity should be ongoing for at least 6 months and should consist of 2 or more of the subsequent criteria (American Psychiatric Association, 2013):

• Noticeable incongruence between the gender that the patient sees themselves are, and what their classified gender assignment
• An intense need to do away with his or her primary or secondary sex features (or, in the case of young teenagers, to avert the maturity of the likely secondary features)
• An intense desire to have the primary or secondary sex features of the other gender
• A deep desire to transform into another gender
• A profound need for society to treat them as another gender
• A powerful assurance of having the characteristic feelings and responses of the other gender
• The second necessity is that the condition should be connected with clinically important distress, or affects the individual significantly socially, at work, and in other import areas of life.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

Both Dawkins point, and the response to it remain telling. Trans advocates all too often aren't interested in defending their position intellectually - they are interested in trying to punish people who believe differently than they do.

There are not trans advocates. Nobody is emailing copies of the DSM, WPATH research or other literature to teens or adults hoping to make them trans because being trans isn't a decision. It is innate to the person and decided before they are born. This is what John Money proved almost 50 years ago. You are a gatekeeper but you refuse to admit that so you claim that anyone who opposes your transphobia and gatekeeping is a transgender advocate.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Trans advocates all too often aren't interested in defending their position intellectually - they are interested in trying to punish people who believe differently than they do.

It's really silly to slap a broad brush on this, because not every trans person is as confused as our own @Renae was.
Try unloading that on the former Bob Tur (now Hannah Zoey Tur)

 

[cpwill]

It's really silly to slap a broad brush on this, because not every trans person is as confused as our own @Renae was.
Try unloading that on the former Bob Tur (now Hannah Zoey Tur)

.... no; the activist class is not the same as "all who suffer from this particularly unfortunate delusion". Plenty of the more vicious likely have no connection to it whatsoever, and are simply on a Puritan Crusade to demonstrate their own moral superiority.

 

[cpwill]

Wow! Blast from the past!

There is nothing political about it.

Tragically, to the contrary. The field has generally decided to prioritize politics, and, well, that has had the unfortunately predictable consequences. :-/

There are not trans advocates.

:lol: Okay. No one ever tries to cancel heretics in this area of public debate, ever. Ever, ever, ever.

It is innate to the person and decided before they are born.

Funny how we keep getting people who detransition, if that's the case.

This is what John Money proved almost 50 years ago.

Money demonstrated the currently broadly preferred methodology of plastic surgery, hormone treatment, and social reinforcement cannot achieve what the Trans activist community wants it to - to turn a boy into a girl.

You are a gatekeeper but you refuse to admit that so you claim that anyone who opposes your transphobia and gatekeeping is a transgender advocate.

I'm not a gatekeeper to anything except my family and some stuff in my workplace; and simply disagreeing with me doesn't make anyone an activist anymore than me disagreeing with them makes me an activist.

 

[DCCougar]

The leader of the atheist movement, biologist Dawkins...

I've never heard of him being referred to as "the leader of the atheist movement." In fact, I've never heard of atheism being referred to as "a movement." And I'm an atheist.

That is, a world-class biologist is now relegated to a pseudo-scientist....

He is a popular biologist, or a well-known biologist. Claiming he's "world-class" seems to me to be made up. Or spin. A "world-class" biologist would not receive the following criticism by a contemporary scientific investigator:

"Dawkins's myth of the selfish gene and its hellish creation is, of course, scientifically false, as well as being morally abhorrent. Dawkins's genetics, as other scientists have observed, are impossible... the selfish gene is neither selfish nor a gene."

"Dawkins's theory of culture is a disaster, empirically and morally... Dawkins has transformed culture into a meaningless and oppressive tyrant, an indoctrinator of human 'survival machines' so that they will behave selfishly on behalf of virulent memes."

"What Dawkins and Barash are thus popularizing is not objective science but their own metaphysical assumptions, philosophical positions, and social visions." -- Howard L. Kaye

 

[DCCougar]

...social reinforcement cannot achieve what the Trans activist community wants it to - to turn a boy into a girl.

As previously pointed out, this is bullshit.

 

[Napoleon]

Harold Bloom was correct in his prediction that the coup launched by School of Resentment would succeed in overthrowing the true academics and replace the canon with the slops of lesser minds.

 

[Ouroboros]

Harold Bloom was correct in his prediction that the coup launched by School of Resentment would succeed in overthrowing the true academics and replace the canon with the slops of lesser minds.

Where’d he say that? Western Canon?

 

[Napoleon]

Where’d he say that? Western Canon?

He made that point consistently in his books and interviews.

 

[Ouroboros]

I’m not arguing the point, but if I wanted to find something that developed this Nietzschean sounding notion, does anything stand out for you?

If not, no foul.

 

[DCCougar]

Harold Bloom was correct...

I'm curious why you would make that claim when Bloom defends literary texts that often make highly troubling assumptions about gender relations, sexual preference, race, and empire. At times, these texts even make arguments defending such prejudices, as when Aristotle infamously claimed that some human beings are born to be slaves.

 

[Napoleon]

I'm curious why you would make that claim when Bloom defends literary texts that often make highly troubling assumptions about gender relations, sexual preference, race, and empire. At times, these texts even make arguments defending such prejudices, as when Aristotle infamously claimed that some human beings are born to be slaves.

I don’t know what you’re asking here.

 

[Napoleon]

I’m not arguing the point, but if I wanted to find something that developed this Nietzschean sounding notion, does anything stand out for you?

If not, no foul.

I think the Western Canon would probably be a good place to start. Or you could watch one of his many interviews on YouTube.

 

[Ouroboros]

I'm curious why you would make that claim when Bloom defends literary texts that often make highly troubling assumptions about gender relations, sexual preference, race, and empire. At times, these texts even make arguments defending such prejudices, as when Aristotle infamously claimed that some human beings are born to be slaves.

An interesting but unattributed quote I just came across: "nobody loves anyone else for being perfect. If that were the requirement, no one could ever love anyone."

That's my way of taking exception with what I deem "purity tests." It's one thing to take a stand against someone who has done bad things. It's more problematic to oppose people for what one deems "bad thoughts," given that everyone has, and pretty everyone expresses, bad thoughts.

 

[Napoleon]

An interesting but unattributed quote I just came across: "nobody loves anyone else for being perfect. If that were the requirement, no one could ever love anyone."

That's my way of taking exception with what I deem "purity tests." It's one thing to take a stand against someone who has done bad things. It's more problematic to oppose people for what one deems "bad thoughts," given that everyone has, and pretty everyone expresses, bad thoughts.

Here’s a good interview of Harold Bloom and his thoughts on the Canon: