David Hogg vs. James Carville (3 Viewers)

[cpwill]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/04/23/dnc-gives-david-hogg-an-ultimatum-00307113

The Democratic National Committee is going to force David Hogg to decide: Get out of the primary game or lose his DNC post.

During a member call on Thursday, DNC Chair Ken Martin is expected to announce a proposal to change the party’s rules to mandate all DNC officers stay neutral in all Democratic primaries,....​

 

[trouble13]

An area of agreement. And just FYI, the right-wing will lose that debate. Badly.

I look forward to having it. I am open to being persuaded. I have more respect for the true believers on the left than I do for the ones in DC.

 

[Questerr]

They are both idiots. Carville is well past his use by date and Hogg is just a turd who happened to be on the grounds during a school shooting and took advantage to start a political career.

And FDR was just a rich kid from a political family who used his family connections to get into office. Same with JFK.

 

[Surrealistik]

Pick your strategy.



Hogg: Protect democracy, fight against fascism and oust ineffective and corrupt corporate Democrats.

More: David Hogg, a 25-year-old Democratic National Committee (DNC) vice chair and a survivor of the 2018 Parkland shooting, is planning to spend $20 million to support primary challenges against Democratic incumbents he deems ineffective in combating President Trump's policies. Hogg's organization, Leaders We Deserve, aims to elect younger and more combative leaders in solidly Democratic districts. This strategy has sparked significant controversy within the Democratic Party, with some lawmakers and strategists criticizing Hogg for potentially diverting attention and resources away from the party's broader electoral goals. Hogg argues that the party needs to address a "culture of seniority politics" that allows less effective lawmakers to remain in office during a time of crisis.246 He predicts that his efforts will face backlash and potential smear campaigns aimed at undermining his reputation and stopping his initiatives.

Carville: Play dead and hope that Dems can pick up the pieces post-Trump.

More: James Carville, a veteran Democratic strategist, suggested a controversial strategy for Democrats to "roll over and play dead" in response to the Trump administration's actions. He argued that Democrats should allow Republicans to crumble under their own weight, predicting that the public would eventually miss the Democrats and turn against the Republicans.

Ignoring his extremely dated bona fides and notable recent failures, Carville has at least half a point in that one should not interrupt their enemy when he's making a mistake, but completely playing possum and hoping for the best is the height of idiocy, and a sure recipe for failure; doubly so when constituents actually *want* Democrats to stand up to bad Republican policies to the best of their ability and greatly disapprove of Schumer's timidity. While Dems may not be successful in that opposition given Republican dominance of the House and Senate, it is important and electorally useful that they be at least seen attempting to avert GOP idiocy, and fulfilling the demands of constituents.

What Democrats should do, beyond this, is speak to and amplify the most notable and despised failures of Trump and the Republicans per the feedback of voters, particularly independents, streamline, condense and consolidate these into a 'greatest hits' to optimize messaging, keep them fresh in the memory of the electorate, remind these voters why Trump's approval ratings are cratering to historically low levels, and in short efficiently preserve and nourish their justified resentment of this disaster of an administration while simultaneously tying it to House and Senate Republicans and offering them the policy they clearly prioritize as an alternative: lower cost of living, healthcare reform, preservation of social security and educational quality. Second, we need to lay the key foundations and organizational infrastructure for a successful mid-terms, which indeed, includes ousting and replacing those Dems that have failed their constituents, according to the latter's polling, and efficiently distributes resources among close seats where they're most likely to yield returns.

 

[Surrealistik]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/04/23/dnc-gives-david-hogg-an-ultimatum-00307113

The Democratic National Committee is going to force David Hogg to decide: Get out of the primary game or lose his DNC post.​

​

During a member call on Thursday, DNC Chair Ken Martin is expected to announce a proposal to change the party’s rules to mandate all DNC officers stay neutral in all Democratic primaries,....​

I actually don't mind, but this is sadly at least 10 years too late, putting aside how this proposal 'coincidentally' dropped the very moment old guard Dems are threatened.

 

[JMB1911A1]

More data about the little Hogg feeding at the trough.

Last cycle Hogg raised $11.9M, spent $10.7M on overhead, salaries, etc.. and only spent - ready for it? $266,000 or less than 3% on actual campaigns.


And his PAC payed him over $16k salary last month. Good work if you can get it.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Oops, Hogg boy seems to have posed off the DNC.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/04/23/dnc-gives-david-hogg-an-ultimatum-00307113

"The Democratic National Committee is going to force David Hogg to decide: Get out of the primary game or lose his DNC post.

During a member call on Thursday, DNC Chair Ken Martin is expected to announce a proposal to change the party’s rules to mandate all DNC officers stay neutral in all Democratic primaries"

 

[Phys251]

Hogg didn't vote for Harris?

Wasn't talking about Hogg there.

 

[cpwill]

More data about the little Hogg feeding at the trough.

Last cycle Hogg raised $11.9M, spent $10.7M on overhead, salaries, etc.. and only spent - ready for it? $266,000 or less than 3% on actual campaigns.


And his PAC payed him over $16k salary last month. Good work if you can get it.

We need to stop giving our money to grifters - as a people; stop donating money to politicians and political campaigns. We need to make these people into the cultural equivalent of the Nigerian Prince Trying To Move Money; a scam that everyone realizes is a scam.

 

[Surrealistik]

More data about the little Hogg feeding at the trough.

Last cycle Hogg raised $11.9M, spent $10.7M on overhead, salaries, etc.. and only spent - ready for it? $266,000 or less than 3% on actual campaigns.


And his PAC payed him over $16k salary last month. Good work if you can get it.

I have little interest in Hogg personally, but the general thrust of his message and observation that the Dem party needs to challenge if not replace those representatives who are coasting off of legacy/seniority and are unresponsive to, or otherwise uninterested in the demands of their own constituents, is dead on.

 

[Felis Leo]

We need to stop giving our money to grifters - as a people; stop donating money to politicians and political campaigns. We need to make these people into the cultural equivalent of the Nigerian Prince Trying To Move Money; a scam that everyone realizes is a scam.

Leaving aside that the poster "Bulldog" appears to be a far-right fascist poster, I just do not see what Hogg is currently doing as a grift. Not yet anyway. There are no actual primary campaigns happening now. Why would one begin campaigning in earnest when there are no rival candidates coming to the fore right now to primary Democrats a year out? I can certainly see needing to hire staff and laying groundwork well beforehand. In fact, it would sound more like a grift if they were not doing this.

That is not to say he won't pull a Jill Stein. But I will withhold my judgment until the Democratic primaries are held. We can pin this for late 2025, early 2026 and see if this was part of an honest effort to bring in progressive activist Democratic candidates to help everyday Americans, or a scam meant to capitalize off of many Democratic voters' current dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party's current establishment.

 

[Surrealistik]

I just do not see this as a grift. Not yet anyway. There are no actual primary campaigns happening now. Why would one begin campaigning in earnest when there are no rival candidates coming to the fore right now to primary Democrats a year out? I can certainly see needing to hire staff and laying groundwork well beforehand. In fact, it would sound more like a grift if they were not doing this.

That is not to say he won't pull a Jill Stein. But I will withhold my judgment until the Democratic primaries are held.

Whether or not he's grifting indeed comes down to what those employees are being paid to do, what the overhead is actually for, and if they are working to establish preparatory foundations and infrastructure for campaigning to come.

 

[Felis Leo]

Whether or not he's grifting indeed comes down to what those employees are being paid to do, what the overhead is actually for, and if they are working to establish preparatory foundations and infrastructure for campaigning to come.

Exactly. And Hell, if he is trying to run a scam to capitalize off of peak dissatisfaction against establishment Democrats, I would rather he be ferreted out now rather than later.

 

[gman]

David Hogg has no business giving political strategy, since he is a child who has no idea what he's talking about. James Carville might have some relevant instincts from his time devising political strategies, but that was a long time ago. Neither of these people should be formulating strategy.

The best long-term approach would be something closer to Howard Dean's 50-state strategy from two decades ago, combined with a short-term moneyball focus on winning the seats that are actually competitive.

Dean was a flash in the pan. Another democrat heartthrob. He’s faded off into the wilderness.

 

[gman]

Carville's plan is how Democrats lost to Trump twice.

Or at least part of it.

It's not doing anywhere near enough.
It's not enough to just play dead and offer themselves as the "reasonable" option.

We're not in reasonable times, we need an unreasonable option in the direct opposite direction from Trump, on the economy especially.

And by that I mean, wealth taxes, designed specifically to cause redistribution of wealth from the most wealthy to the least wealthy.

Totally disagree with you. The democrats lost because people finally wised to their hypocrisy, a brain drained president, gender and identity politics, race baiting, etc, etc.. The party is stale and moldy with a handful of radical lefties constantly grabbing the spotlight of representing the party.

 

[Gatsby]

Dean was a flash in the pan. Another democrat heartthrob. He’s faded off into the wilderness.

Yep, but the 50-state strategy he advocated was the correct approach. It is not healthy that some states are essentially one-party systems of government because one of our two parties has just given up.

 

[cpwill]

Leaving aside that the poster "Bulldog" appears to be a far-right fascist poster,

I certainly understand reticence to take right wing social media at face value , but It's being discussed on the Left as well, and is sourced from FEC filings.

I just do not see what Hogg is currently doing as a grift. Not yet anyway. There are no actual primary campaigns happening now.

Why would one begin campaigning in earnest when there are no rival candidates coming to the fore right now to primary Democrats a year out? I can certainly see needing to hire staff and laying groundwork well beforehand. In fact, it would sound more like a grift if they were not doing this.

....Why would you hire staff to participate in non-existent campaigns?

That is not to say he won't pull a Jill Stein. But I will withhold my judgment until the Democratic primaries are held. We can pin this for late 2025, early 2026 and see if this was part of an honest effort to bring in progressive activist Democratic candidates to help everyday Americans, or a scam meant to capitalize off of many Democratic voters' current dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party's current establishment.

I wasn't aware Jill Stein did this kind of thing as well.


But yeah - the angrier and more worried Democrat and Democrat-leaning voters get, the more vulnerable they will be to this sort of thing, and the more grifters will come out of the woodwork to take as much advantage of that as possible (see: Tea Party Patriots, Tea Party Express, et. al.)

 

[Maidenrules29]

I will reiterate my previous position here.

The last time Carville has done anything was to like help Clinton beat Bob Dole. Skeletor needs to sit down and stfu.

As for Hogg, you cannot claim to both want to fight fascism and be a gun grabber. Drop the damn gun issue and start actually trying to do something about the root causes of gun violence instead of ****ing with people's rights.

Especially at a time when people are seeing fascism for what it is, and the fastest-growing demographics of gun owners are liberals and minorities.

In order to want to fight fascism, you have to actually be anti-fascist.

Thanks for the spittake when I read "Skeletor" LOL.

 

[Hamish Howl]

When's the last time Team Carville won an election?

More recently than progs.

 

[BitterPill]

In a cage fight I'd pick Hogg, but Carville is much smarter. Carville understands Trump and he knows how to defeat him. Carville's strategy is

'Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.' - Napoleon

Carville wants Trump to self-destruct, and it looks like that is happening.

Excluding me, the four who left likes for your post agree with you that Trump is self destructing which is typical of anti-MAGA DP members on the right, real Lincoln Project fans, so I'm going with Hogg.

MAGA.

 

[L88]

Carville saw the weakness in Kamala's campaign, and Democrats wouldn't listen.

 

[multivita-man]

PPV cage match?

 

[Gardener]

If the Democrat party wants to be relevant, it should embrace actual liberalism, and not this w.e.f. inspired woke crap.

 

[Bum]

David Hogg vs. James Carville​

Thats like a demolition derby between a Yugo and a Smart car.

 

[Surrealistik]

....Why would you hire staff to participate in non-existent campaigns?

I thought it was pretty clear, including per the quote you referenced, that there is an argument to be made that they're doing preparatory/foundational work for the pending campaign season and mid-terms; it is entirely possible they may not be, but I have yet to see true evidence of malfeasance thus far.