David Hogg vs. James Carville (2 Viewers)

[Dans La Lune]

Pick your strategy.



Hogg: Protect democracy, fight against fascism and oust ineffective and corrupt corporate Democrats.

More: David Hogg, a 25-year-old Democratic National Committee (DNC) vice chair and a survivor of the 2018 Parkland shooting, is planning to spend $20 million to support primary challenges against Democratic incumbents he deems ineffective in combating President Trump's policies. Hogg's organization, Leaders We Deserve, aims to elect younger and more combative leaders in solidly Democratic districts. This strategy has sparked significant controversy within the Democratic Party, with some lawmakers and strategists criticizing Hogg for potentially diverting attention and resources away from the party's broader electoral goals. Hogg argues that the party needs to address a "culture of seniority politics" that allows less effective lawmakers to remain in office during a time of crisis.246 He predicts that his efforts will face backlash and potential smear campaigns aimed at undermining his reputation and stopping his initiatives.

Carville: Play dead and hope that Dems can pick up the pieces post-Trump.

More: James Carville, a veteran Democratic strategist, suggested a controversial strategy for Democrats to "roll over and play dead" in response to the Trump administration's actions. He argued that Democrats should allow Republicans to crumble under their own weight, predicting that the public would eventually miss the Democrats and turn against the Republicans.

 

[SkyChief]

In a cage fight I'd pick Hogg, but Carville is much smarter. Carville understands Trump and he knows how to defeat him. Carville's strategy is

'Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.' - Napoleon

Carville wants Trump to self-destruct, and it looks like that is happening.

 

[Dans La Lune]

In a cage fight I'd pick Hogg, but Carville is much smarter. Carville understands Trump and he knows how to defeat him. Carville's strategy is

'Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.' - Napoleon

When's the last time Team Carville won an election?

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I agree more with Carville. The Right are engaging in their own destruction just fine.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean Democrats should stay completely quiet. I suggest that instead of making headlines and moaning about ever crazy thing Trump says or does, they should do more of what they have already begun, go to town halls, talk to everyday Americans, start a grassroots movement.

2nd HOWEVER, I doubt the Democrats are disciplined enough or smart enough to keep their traps shut long enough for the Right to immolate themselves.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I am quite curious to see what Hogg comes up with as he proceeds on his venture.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I agree more with Carville. The Right are engaging in their own destruction just fine.

Wow. Dems are screwed.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Pick your strategy.



Hogg: Protect democracy, fight against fascism and oust ineffective and corrupt corporate Democrats.

More: David Hogg, a 25-year-old Democratic National Committee (DNC) vice chair and a survivor of the 2018 Parkland shooting, is planning to spend $20 million to support primary challenges against Democratic incumbents he deems ineffective in combating President Trump's policies. Hogg's organization, Leaders We Deserve, aims to elect younger and more combative leaders in solidly Democratic districts. This strategy has sparked significant controversy within the Democratic Party, with some lawmakers and strategists criticizing Hogg for potentially diverting attention and resources away from the party's broader electoral goals. Hogg argues that the party needs to address a "culture of seniority politics" that allows less effective lawmakers to remain in office during a time of crisis.246 He predicts that his efforts will face backlash and potential smear campaigns aimed at undermining his reputation and stopping his initiatives.

Carville: Play dead and hope that Dems can pick up the pieces post-Trump.

More: James Carville, a veteran Democratic strategist, suggested a controversial strategy for Democrats to "roll over and play dead" in response to the Trump administration's actions. He argued that Democrats should allow Republicans to crumble under their own weight, predicting that the public would eventually miss the Democrats and turn against the Republicans.

They are both idiots. Carville is well past his use by date and Hogg is just a turd who happened to be on the grounds during a school shooting and took advantage to start a political career.

 

[Greenbeard]

Mr. Hogg said he was not yet ready to name any incumbents whom his organization planned to try to unseat. But he stressed that the criteria for challengers to get his group’s backing would not simply be age. Notably, he cited two examples of effective older lawmakers who have drawn primary challengers in 2026 but who he believes deserve re-election: Representative Jan Schakowsky of Illinois, 80, and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California, 85.

 

[Gatsby]

David Hogg has no business giving political strategy, since he is a child who has no idea what he's talking about. James Carville might have some relevant instincts from his time devising political strategies, but that was a long time ago. Neither of these people should be formulating strategy.

The best long-term approach would be something closer to Howard Dean's 50-state strategy from two decades ago, combined with a short-term moneyball focus on winning the seats that are actually competitive.

 

[StillBallin75]

I will reiterate my previous position here.

The last time Carville has done anything was to like help Clinton beat Bob Dole. Skeletor needs to sit down and stfu.

As for Hogg, you cannot claim to both want to fight fascism and be a gun grabber. Drop the damn gun issue and start actually trying to do something about the root causes of gun violence instead of ****ing with people's rights.

Especially at a time when people are seeing fascism for what it is, and the fastest-growing demographics of gun owners are liberals and minorities.

In order to want to fight fascism, you have to actually be anti-fascist.

 

[blur]

The Democratic strategy on Trump for the past 9 year has been: let Trump's incompetency do the work for us. That strategy has not worked in the Dem's favor outside of the 2020 election, and COVID helped a lot with that one. I think it's painfully naive to believe that the Dems should just sit back, and that it will all work out in the end.

 

[VySky]

Pick your strategy.



Hogg: Protect democracy, fight against fascism and oust ineffective and corrupt corporate Democrats.

More: David Hogg, a 25-year-old Democratic National Committee (DNC) vice chair and a survivor of the 2018 Parkland shooting, is planning to spend $20 million to support primary challenges against Democratic incumbents he deems ineffective in combating President Trump's policies. Hogg's organization, Leaders We Deserve, aims to elect younger and more combative leaders in solidly Democratic districts. This strategy has sparked significant controversy within the Democratic Party, with some lawmakers and strategists criticizing Hogg for potentially diverting attention and resources away from the party's broader electoral goals. Hogg argues that the party needs to address a "culture of seniority politics" that allows less effective lawmakers to remain in office during a time of crisis.246 He predicts that his efforts will face backlash and potential smear campaigns aimed at undermining his reputation and stopping his initiatives.

Carville: Play dead and hope that Dems can pick up the pieces post-Trump.

More: James Carville, a veteran Democratic strategist, suggested a controversial strategy for Democrats to "roll over and play dead" in response to the Trump administration's actions. He argued that Democrats should allow Republicans to crumble under their own weight, predicting that the public would eventually miss the Democrats and turn against the Republicans.

Lolz....

Sounds like a Republican strategy. Purge the rhinos

 

[Gatsby]

Lolz....

Sounds like a Republican strategy. Purge the rhinos

We Democrats welcome your RINOs, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. We'll gladly take them if you don't want them.

 

[Grogu]

David Hogg has no business giving political strategy, since he is a child who has no idea what he's talking about. James Carville might have some relevant instincts from his time devising political strategies, but that was a long time ago. Neither of these people should be formulating strategy.

The best long-term approach would be something closer to Howard Dean's 50-state strategy from two decades ago, combined with a short-term moneyball focus on winning the seats that are actually competitive.

Agreed. I would add that seeking out better candidates in all races is a key. Even in what is to be believed non-competitive races, you’ve got to start building somewhere. Not necessarily dumping a ton of money and resources into those races- there’s only so much to go around, with the focus on key seats, but having candidates who are more dynamic and less like mannequins just being placeholders would help.

Voters across the country need to be engaged. Not just in some states. At least give those of us in red, non-battleground states someone to rally around. Not some corpse. You potentially cost your party swing voters by ignoring those states.

 

[Felis Leo]

Lolz....

Sounds like a Republican strategy. Purge the rhinos

Yeah. But that strategy worked for the far-right Tea Party Republicans. The Republicans won and have achieved party discipline.

 

[Gatsby]

having candidates who are more dynamic and less like mannequins just being placeholders would help.

Totally agree with this. The "placeholder" problem is very real. It really hurts Democrats to have so much partisan discipline in Congress, because no matter how much red-state voters like an individual Democratic candidate or agree with him on the issues, they can rightly worry that they are just voting for a generic Democratic placeholder for Chuck Schumer's agenda.

IMO Democrats would be better served in the long-term if they gave red-state and purple-state Democrats more leeway to vote their conscience, even if it means occasionally losing support on some important bill.

 

[aociswundumho]

As for Hogg, you cannot claim to both want to fight fascism and be a gun grabber.

This is a great line I plan on using in the future.

 

[Perotista]

Pick your strategy.



Hogg: Protect democracy, fight against fascism and oust ineffective and corrupt corporate Democrats.

More: David Hogg, a 25-year-old Democratic National Committee (DNC) vice chair and a survivor of the 2018 Parkland shooting, is planning to spend $20 million to support primary challenges against Democratic incumbents he deems ineffective in combating President Trump's policies. Hogg's organization, Leaders We Deserve, aims to elect younger and more combative leaders in solidly Democratic districts. This strategy has sparked significant controversy within the Democratic Party, with some lawmakers and strategists criticizing Hogg for potentially diverting attention and resources away from the party's broader electoral goals. Hogg argues that the party needs to address a "culture of seniority politics" that allows less effective lawmakers to remain in office during a time of crisis.246 He predicts that his efforts will face backlash and potential smear campaigns aimed at undermining his reputation and stopping his initiatives.

Carville: Play dead and hope that Dems can pick up the pieces post-Trump.

More: James Carville, a veteran Democratic strategist, suggested a controversial strategy for Democrats to "roll over and play dead" in response to the Trump administration's actions. He argued that Democrats should allow Republicans to crumble under their own weight, predicting that the public would eventually miss the Democrats and turn against the Republicans.

I’ve always had a lot of respect for old snake eyes. The republicans are in full control, the democrats don’t have the numbers to actively oppose Trump outside of some guest appearances on some talk shows. Doing nothing is working. Old snake eyes knows that Trump will implode due to his actions and obnoxious, uncouth, rude persona. Using 1 Feb as a base line, Trump’s overall job approval has dropped from 49.9% down to 46.6% today while his disapproval numbers have risen from 44.7% up to 50.7%. A slow, but steady decline.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating

Republicans aren’t going to desert Trump, 91% of republicans approved of Trump’s overall job performance back on 1 Feb, 90% do so today. Democrats, they’re anti-Trump big time, 6% approving of Trump job performance back on 1 Feb, down to 4% today. But the most important group, swing voters, independents, their approval of Trump job performance has dropped from 48% down to 41% since 1 Feb and is continuing to drop. No need to give anyone especially independents a reason to dislike democrats by their actions. Let Trump hang himself on his own petards. He’s doing a pretty good job of doing so. Letting Trump be Trump, the democrats should come up smelling like roses in next years midterms.

 

[Felis Leo]

We Democrats welcome your RINOs, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. We'll gladly take them if you don't want them.

I would not shift policy positions to the right in order to attract the startling-small minority of suburban moderate Republican voters willing to vote Democratic.

 

[Gatsby]

I would not shift policy positions to the right in order to attract the startling-small minority of suburban moderate Republican voters willing to vote Democratic.

Even now, those kind of voters are where elections are won or lost. And in the longer term, "willing to vote Democratic" is not a fixed category of voters...that depends in large part on the Democrats, not just the voters.

 

[Grogu]

Totally agree with this. The "placeholder" problem is very real. It really hurts Democrats to have so much partisan discipline in Congress, because no matter how much red-state voters like an individual Democratic candidate or agree with him on the issues, they can rightly worry that they are just voting for a generic Democratic placeholder for Chuck Schumer's agenda.

IMO Democrats would be better served in the long-term if they gave red-state and purple-state Democrats more leeway to vote their conscience, even if it means occasionally losing support on some important bill.

Thinking for yourself and being cast as a leader of all of your constituents, not just those in the silo who vote for you, is an identity sorely lacking in today’s politics, in my opinion. The Democratic Party and their candidates can set themselves apart from the Mike Johnson, Mitch McConnell, and Republican incumbent follower method of running Congress. Run on serving all of your constituents and not being a slave to party politics as it is today.

It may take time, but get busy with the right candidates getting out in front of the people, and it can be done. That’s meaningful change people can get behind.

 

[Felis Leo]

Even now, those kind of voters are where elections are won or lost. And in the longer term, "willing to vote Democratic" is not a fixed category of voters...that depends in large part on the Democrats, not just the voters.

Of course. What I mean is, the Democrats should not abandon dedicated voters from their base for the possibility of moderates from the other side coming over. It has been a losing strategy, and the idea that Chuck Schumer still retains a position of highest leadership within the Democratic Party instead of being relegated to minor sinecure committee assignments is a travesty.

User Clip: For every blue-collar Democrat we lose…we will pick up two…college-educated Republicans.

Senator Charles Schumer (D-New York) explains the Democratic Party's voter strategy.

www.c-span.org

 

[Gatsby]

Of course. What I mean is, the Democrats should not abandon dedicated voters from their base for the possibility of moderates from the other side coming over.

Disagree. There simply are not enough leftists in America to win elections, outside of the bluest states and districts.

It has been a losing strategy, and the idea that Chuck Schumer still retains a position of highest leadership within the Democratic Party instead of being relegated to minor sinecure committee assignments is a travesty.

The main problem with Chuck Schumer is not insufficient fealty to left-wing ideology. Outside of blue states, it's not really a choice between Chuck Schumer and Bernie Sanders. The problem is that even mainstream, establishment Democrats like Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris are a sizable distance to the left of the median voter.

 

[Felis Leo]

Disagree. There simply are not enough leftists in America to win elections, outside of the bluest states and districts.

I completely disagree in turn. The exact same thing could have been by a moderate Romeyesque or McCain Republican to far-right Republicans. That there are not enough disaffected resentful reactionaries and racists to win national elections on far-right nationalist demagoguery. But then they won.

And you know why? Most people in America are politically disengaged and their concept of politics is nebulous at best, and are often self-contradictory. Most people in America are not strongly wed to a full set of political/ideological principles from the day they reach adulthood to the day they die. Most Americans can be swayed with displays of strength and charismatic leadership and go from voting Democratic to voting Republican, and vice versa (or more likely, being disillusioned and just staying home). This is why despite most of them not being dedicated leftists, AOC and Bernie Sanders remain incredibly popular even among a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump.

The main problem with Chuck Schumer is not insufficient fealty to left-wing ideology. Outside of blue states, it's not really a choice between Chuck Schumer and Bernie Sanders. The problem is that even mainstream, establishment Democrats like Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris are a sizable distance to the left of the median voter.

No. That is simply my personal preference. The biggest problem with Chuck Schumer is that he is ineffective as a leader and has not helped Democrats win elections or acting as a beacon of political opposition shining the spotlight on Trump's insane governance. After this latest defeat in the 2024 elections, instead of stepping aside, Schumer kept in the pilot seat. And then, after fighting hard to convince the House Democrats to vote down the Continuing Resolution giving President Trump more power over spending than any president has ever had, Schumer betrayed his colleagues and gathered together enough Democrats in the Senate to pass it. He is, simply put, a backstabber.

And remember, Schumer and Jeffries are both in "safe-blue" seats. So they have never had to run in a competitive election before in their lives. How can they be expected to demonstrate leadership in a fight when they have never had to fight for anything themselves?

 

[Tangmo]

Pick your strategy.

Carville: Play dead and hope that Dems can pick up the pieces post-Trump.

More: James Carville, a veteran Democratic strategist, suggested a controversial strategy for Democrats to "roll over and play dead" in response to the Trump administration's actions. He argued that Democrats should allow Republicans to crumble under their own weight, predicting that the public would eventually miss the Democrats and turn against the Republicans.

The Democratic strategy on Trump for the past 9 year has been: let Trump's incompetency do the work for us. That strategy has not worked in the Dem's favor outside of the 2020 election, and COVID helped a lot with that one. I think it's painfully naive to believe that the Dems should just sit back, and that it will all work out in the end.

Democrats / liberals have failed totally and miserably to stop PutinMagaTrump since 2015 due to their fear of fighting for democracy, the Constitution and the Rule of Law. These thingys are just supposed to exist on their own without having to be defended.

For decades in fact Democrats / liberals have shown up to every Republicans knife fight with only warm soup and bandages. Liberals are totally against political warfare because it might dirty their pristine faces and hands. Libs fear that their fighting fascism means to become fascist too. Indeed this weak and feeble liberal passivity with its phobia is exactly how we got to the 21st century uniquely American fascism we have. Libs have consciously stepped aside to allow it through.

The smug fool Carville has always said to sit back to enjoy watching Republicans destroy themselves yet here we are with Trump running the country into the ground nonstop since 2015. Trump in fact got worse while Biden was Potus. All the while liberals sit and wait for all this to just "poof" go away as the delusional and pathetic liberals are certain it must and will do. NOT.

The weak and pathetic liberals are the enablers and the guarantors of Trump's dominance that is unrelenting and interminable.